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What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
05-30-2012, 02:14 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 03:01 AM by Loafers.)
Post: #1
What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
Is there a reason one should use the hagar over any of the core items? If so, in what situations?
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05-30-2012, 02:19 AM
Post: #2
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
I only seem to use it in 2 situations:

- CTF, -> spawn, too lazy to get another weapon (cause I usually attack)
- Duel, -> died, spawn close to it - then you should charge the secondary, because it can do a lot of damage when your opponent goes for you again (while you are low and he's a tank).

But if you have to chance, you should get a better weapon for sure (imo).

Nevertheless I find it annoying as hell if someone spams me with the primary - I can't hit him then. Big Grin

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05-30-2012, 02:51 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 02:52 AM by Lee_Stricklin.)
Post: #3
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
It's got a high DPS and is THE weapon of choice for harassing someone near the edge of something or if you can manage to knock them into a corner. It's also good for surprise attacks thanks to it's secondary function. I'm pretty sure there are quite a few other roles for it as well.

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05-30-2012, 02:59 AM
Post: #4
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
On quad it's a pretty good choice when fighting on indoor maps. You don't have to aim too hard.

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05-30-2012, 03:03 AM
Post: #5
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
(05-30-2012 02:19 AM)Mirio Wrote:  Nevertheless I find it annoying as hell if someone spams me with the primary - I can't hit him then. Big Grin

this ↑ :-D

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05-30-2012, 10:59 AM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 10:59 AM by rocknroll237.)
Post: #6
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
(05-30-2012 03:03 AM)Cyber Killer Wrote:  
(05-30-2012 02:19 AM)Mirio Wrote:  Nevertheless I find it annoying as hell if someone spams me with the primary - I can't hit him then. Big Grin

this ↑ :-D

I reckon it should have some sort of cool down mechanism to prevent it from becoming some sort of machine gun!

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05-30-2012, 01:43 PM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 01:48 PM by W4RP1G.)
Post: #7
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
Someone explain this to me. The primary fire does 25 dmg per shot, while the secondary does 40(according to g_balance_hagar_secondary_damage). Why does it make sense to make each shot from the secondary do more damage, it seems to be the same type of ammo? It makes more sense to me that it would still do 25 dmg, but charge more rounds, possibly even charging at a faster rate.

Anyway, according to xonoticBalance.cfg, you could potentially do 160 with the secondary. Even though that seems like a lot, I can't ever use the gun and I never see anyone in 1v1 use it effectively either. What is it with this gun that makes it so ineffective?

I hate the gun. It's like someone decided to make the most annoying spam weapon ever. And even worse, when a newbie joins in 1v1 they are always attracted to the it. If they manage to kill me with it, which they probably will(because it catches me off guard, and for some reason I can't think straight when I'm getting shot by it) they will continue to use it for the rest of the match because they think it's the best gun at that point, even if that 1 kill is the only one they will get. $*&@ing drives me crazy sometimes!

Ok I'm done [/rant]
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05-30-2012, 02:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 02:27 PM by rafallus.)
Post: #8
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
Quote:Anyway, according to xonoticBalance.cfg, you could potentially do 160 with the secondary.

Somewhat less so, due to spread. Unless you're at point blank range, but then splash damage would get you too.

This weapon is IMO pretty necessary, primary is equivalent of plasma gun in Q3 or link gun primary in UT. Theoretical DPS is high, but you just won't be getting it. Esp. since it is pretty dodgeable.

And secondary is just awesome, provided you can time your release correctly. IMO a great improvement over 2.5.2's secondary which was kind of boring.
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05-30-2012, 03:12 PM
Post: #9
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-30-2012 02:18 PM)rafallus Wrote:  
Quote:Anyway, according to xonoticBalance.cfg, you could potentially do 160 with the secondary.

Somewhat less so, due to spread. Unless you're at point blank range, but then splash damage would get you too.

This weapon is IMO pretty necessary, primary is equivalent of plasma gun in Q3 or link gun primary in UT. Theoretical DPS is high, but you just won't be getting it. Esp. since it is pretty dodgeable.

And secondary is just awesome, provided you can time your release correctly. IMO a great improvement over 2.5.2's secondary which was kind of boring.

Point blank? You could(in theory) hit someone with all 4 shells at 10ft away with the current spread. Granted, I never can...

I don't believe you NEED a plasma gun in the game. But 2 real plasma guns exist atm, the crylink secondary, and hlac primary. I think I heard that the hlac is on the way out, so hopefully the crylink secondary will fill the void with it's alt fire(and a slight buff).
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05-30-2012, 03:21 PM
Post: #10
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
Doesn't seem like it, given that there was already discussion to replace crylink secondary too. Unfortunately, nobody had any very sound ideas.

And I really don't want hagar gone, even if just for the secondary.
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05-30-2012, 03:45 PM
Post: #11
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
I been watching a lot of duel matches and it seems like nearly all the good players never use the hagar except as Mirio said, when you spawn next to it.
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05-30-2012, 04:29 PM
Post: #12
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-30-2012 03:45 PM)Loafers Wrote:  I been watching a lot of duel matches and it seems like nearly all the good players never use the hagar except as Mirio said, when you spawn next to it.

Pretty much. It's a neat DM weapon though, and probably interesting to new players.
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05-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Post: #13
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
What ppl use and not is as much tradition and trends as it is actual weapon usefulness.

I don't play much duel, so it may not be such a good thing for it there, but in deathmatch i find myself using it as a spam/stay away wep and as finisher. Lately i found, to my surprise, that i quite like it for close combat gun. This can be tricky, as your screen will fill up with boomyness and you risk splashing yourself. Non the less, its DPS makes it quiet good at this when you get it right. Secondary seems useful, but it almost always time out and auto-fire before i can get into a good spot to use it.
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05-30-2012, 05:59 PM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 06:00 PM by hutty.)
Post: #14
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
... its the ONLY gun I can get kills with in a 1v1 vs a competitive player ..

... although I would do better with HLAC ... but its not any very many maps ...

... crylink secondary is weak slow and worthless ... I think they can come up with a better secondary for crylink that a plasma gun

Samual can can control the powers of the xonotic's source ... but can he see why kids like cinnamon toast crunch?
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05-30-2012, 07:16 PM
Post: #15
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
if you can easily get a bunch of hits with it, you should use it

those times are just few and hard to identify, so it's a very risky gun
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05-30-2012, 08:48 PM
Post: #16
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
If someone can develop and consistently execute a useful strategy for 1v1, that would be kinda neat. I've heard theories, but I've never seen anything in action.
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05-30-2012, 09:24 PM
Post: #17
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
It keeps my score positive when I fight antibody ... thats good enough for me

Samual can can control the powers of the xonotic's source ... but can he see why kids like cinnamon toast crunch?
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05-30-2012, 09:30 PM
Post: #18
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
i just had a duel on aggressorx where i used so much hagar it was the 2nd biggest source of my damage

i'll upload the demo a little later
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05-30-2012, 11:08 PM (This post was last modified: 05-30-2012 11:18 PM by Cyber Killer.)
Post: #19
RE: What role does the Hagar have?
(05-30-2012 10:59 AM)rocknroll237 Wrote:  
(05-30-2012 03:03 AM)Cyber Killer Wrote:  
(05-30-2012 02:19 AM)Mirio Wrote:  Nevertheless I find it annoying as hell if someone spams me with the primary - I can't hit him then. Big Grin

this ↑ :-D

I reckon it should have some sort of cool down mechanism to prevent it from becoming some sort of machine gun!

I don't think so - it's pretty much inaccurate at anything further than close range (vs the machine gun which is quite accurate even across the whole map).

Useful or not - I like this gun, cause it's just a lot of fun to use it :-). (for all the more serious uses I recall something called Xonotic Pro Mode, where you can tweak the hell out of all the weapons - I don't care ;-) )

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05-31-2012, 01:41 AM
Post: #20
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-30-2012 03:12 PM)W4RP1G Wrote:  I think I heard that the hlac is on the way out

HLAC was never in, so it cannot be on the way out. It was a stupid gimmicky gun released to attract new players along with an assortment of other things nobody ever cared for or wanted. (Seeker, Camping Rifle, Hook Gun, etc.)

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05-31-2012, 02:13 AM
Post: #21
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-31-2012 01:41 AM)Chryyz Wrote:  HLAC was never in, so it cannot be on the way out. It was a stupid gimmicky gun released to attract new players along with an assortment of other things nobody ever cared for or wanted. (Seeker, Camping Rifle, Hook Gun, etc.)

Watch it, you're hurting an insulting a few core developers with this "nobody ever cared or wanted" speach of arrogancy. Angry

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05-31-2012, 02:18 AM
Post: #22
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-31-2012 02:13 AM)C.Brutail Wrote:  
(05-31-2012 01:41 AM)Chryyz Wrote:  HLAC was never in, so it cannot be on the way out. It was a stupid gimmicky gun released to attract new players along with an assortment of other things nobody ever cared for or wanted. (Seeker, Camping Rifle, Hook Gun, etc.)

Watch it, you're hurting an insulting a few core developers with this "nobody ever cared or wanted" speach of arrogancy. Angry

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05-31-2012, 02:45 AM
Post: #23
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-31-2012 02:13 AM)C.Brutail Wrote:  
(05-31-2012 01:41 AM)Chryyz Wrote:  HLAC was never in, so it cannot be on the way out. It was a stupid gimmicky gun released to attract new players along with an assortment of other things nobody ever cared for or wanted. (Seeker, Camping Rifle, Hook Gun, etc.)

Watch it, you're hurting an insulting a few core developers with this "nobody ever cared or wanted" speach of arrogancy. Angry

I applaud the initiative taken to create new weapons for the game. I did not, however, appreciate that current weapon functions were takens, turned into spam weapons, and pushed on the playerbase. I think you'll find I was not, and am not alone in this.

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05-31-2012, 02:58 AM (This post was last modified: 05-31-2012 02:59 AM by rafallus.)
Post: #24
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
But what do those weapons (rifle, seeker, hook) have to do with taking function from other weapons? They were there since Nexuiz days, and in fact it's now that they are getting clearly relegated to "new toys" status, with focus on a core set, as Samual calls it.
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05-31-2012, 03:03 AM
Post: #25
RE: What role does the Hagar have in Duel?
(05-31-2012 02:45 AM)Chryyz Wrote:  
(05-31-2012 02:13 AM)C.Brutail Wrote:  
(05-31-2012 01:41 AM)Chryyz Wrote:  HLAC was never in, so it cannot be on the way out. It was a stupid gimmicky gun released to attract new players along with an assortment of other things nobody ever cared for or wanted. (Seeker, Camping Rifle, Hook Gun, etc.)

Watch it, you're hurting an insulting a few core developers with this "nobody ever cared or wanted" speach of arrogancy. Angry

I applaud the initiative taken to create new weapons for the game. I did not, however, appreciate that current weapon functions were takens, turned into spam weapons, and pushed on the playerbase. I think you'll find I was not, and am not alone in this.

It's best if you ignore C.Brutail, he takes umbrage over little things.
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