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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Onslaught - Improved! (/showthread.php?tid=213)
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Onslaught - Improved! - ThePWTULN - 04-01-2010
After playing Tremulous for a bit, I though we could add similar gameplay for Onslaught.
Why? Because ONS as it is right now takes little or no strategy at all to play. You just pick up some ammo, hide, then unload it all on a control point when no-one's looking. It needs more strategy, which I think Tremulous-style gameplay can bring to it
Think about it this way - if ONS is such a awesome game, then why doesn't anyone play it? (2011 note: Because there aren't any ONS maps/servers!)
If you don't know what Tremulous is: Basically there's two teams who try to destroy each other's bases. So it's a bit like ONS, but there are more attacking and defending elements. See this page for more info.
RE: New game type! - Roanoke - 04-01-2010
What gametype are you suggesting?
Also, if you want assault, make assault maps.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-01-2010
(04-01-2010, 03:51 PM)Roanoke Wrote: What gametype are you suggesting?
Also, if you want assault, make assault maps.
I think there should a gametype similar to the gameplay of Tremulous.
Basically, there's two teams who try to destroy each other's bases. So it's a bit like Assault, but both teams are attack and defending at the same time.
RE: New game type! - DiaboliK - 04-01-2010
Before we make new game types, it might make more sense to improve the current ones and remove the ones that arent played.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-01-2010
(04-01-2010, 04:21 PM)DiaboliK Wrote: Before we make new game types, it might make more sense to improve the current ones and remove the ones that arent played.
I suppose this could be an improvement to Assault, rather than an entirely new game type
RE: New game type! - Lee_Stricklin - 04-01-2010
Siege would be really fun on Xonotic, but there would a TON of stuff to do to make it, namely modelling base cores, turrets, making a constructor device, etc. If you don't know what Siege is, it's the best mod for UT99. Picture an RTS game where your on the ground fighting. The game is played on capture the flag maps where each flag is replaced by a base core. The object of the game destroy the enemy's core while protecting your own. You can build and upgrade structures such as weapon suppliers, protectors (auto guns), containers (these store RU and are good for blocking), and other cool stuff such as fly-by-wire nukes.
http://www.heiland.co.uk/siege/intro.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEmVQ9Mz-Xc
RE: New game type! - Roanoke - 04-01-2010
This sounds an awful lot like DOM or whichever gamemode has control points with health. I don't know if buildables is a good idea for nexuiz.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-01-2010
(04-01-2010, 04:35 PM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Siege would be really fun on Xonotic, but there would a TON of stuff to do to make it, namely modelling base cores, turrets, making a constructor device, etc.
We already have a set of turret models, so that shouldn't be a problem.
(04-01-2010, 04:47 PM)Roanoke Wrote: This sounds an awful lot like DOM or whichever gamemode has control points with health. I don't know if buildables is a good idea for nexuiz.
It's not like domination, because that's about scoring more points than the other team. It doesn't have to have buildables either, so it'll be loosely based on Tremulous.
RE: New game type! - EvilSpaceHamster - 04-01-2010
Meh, Trem is Trem, aint no game like it, I think it should stayt that way, if you wanna make assault maps, make assault maps. Its fairly flexible sa far as setting goes...
RE: New game type! - Silica Gel: Do Not Eat - 04-01-2010
How would this differ from Onslaught?
RE: New game type! - Lee_Stricklin - 04-02-2010
(04-01-2010, 07:01 PM)EvilSpaceHamster Wrote: Meh, Trem is Trem, aint no game like it, I think it should stayt that way, if you wanna make assault maps, make assault maps. Its fairly flexible sa far as setting goes...
SIEGE:
Picture playing Starcraft on the ground, except that there are no factions and everybody can build the same stuff. Also you wouldn't be linking nodes. This game would be playable on every CTF map where each flag would be replaced by a base core. You can upgrade your base core as well as structures and items to make them tougher and more effective (upgrading a core would allow you to get RU faster, turrets would shoot faster, suppliers would give you more weapons, everything would be tougher to kill, etc.). In my opinion a group of people could probably make a Siege for Xonotic, but they'd have to drastically change it (mostly strip it down for the faster gameplay) so that it plays correctly. Almost ALL of the models in UT99 Siege really aint anything fancy with the base cores being a diamond that is either red or blue and the containers just being simple cubes that float. If you look at this page you'll see what I'm talking about, it would mostly be coding that would really get annoying. If you have Unreal Tournament, then download the server tab and see for yourself what it is.
http://www.heiland.co.uk/siege/intro.html
Tremulous:
Similar concept, except there are two factions that each have there own strengths and weaknesses as well as classes in each faction. There's also A LOT less stuff and the gameplay isn't as deep.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-02-2010
(04-01-2010, 07:19 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: How would this differ from Onslaught?
Onslaught is just about picking up loads of ammunition and unloading it all on a control point when no-one's looking. There's not much strategy in it.
What I'm suggesting would be much more tactical.
RE: New game type! - kojn^ - 04-02-2010
Would rather the assault mode just has a few maps made for it so it can start to be played..
RE: New game type! - Vael - 04-02-2010
I think you're suggesting gameplay similar to Tribes. Each team has a base that has various equipment (Turrets, shields for turrets, generator for shields and generator for turrets). No building device would have to be made, just a repair device. Maps would be similar to CTF maps, and could have a flag to make a "Base CTF" style (which I'm kinda partial to). The differences that stand out in Xonotic would be the movement mechanics and lack of vehicles, which would lead to smaller, more Xonotic friendly maps. I remember some maps in Tribes where you had to travel several kilometers just to get to the halfway base, and then double that to get to the enemy's flag. That kind of gameplay would clearly not work in Xonotic lol.
I like the idea, but lets make some Assault maps first.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-02-2010
(04-02-2010, 03:15 PM)Vael Wrote: I think you're suggesting gameplay similar to Tribes. Each team has a base that has various equipment (Turrets, shields for turrets, generator for shields and generator for turrets). No building device would have to be made, just a repair device. Maps would be similar to CTF maps, and could have a flag to make a "Base CTF" style (which I'm kinda partial to). The differences that stand out in Xonotic would be the movement mechanics and lack of vehicles, which would lead to smaller, more Xonotic friendly maps. I remember some maps in Tribes where you had to travel several kilometers just to get to the halfway base, and then double that to get to the enemy's flag. That kind of gameplay would clearly not work in Xonotic lol.
I like the idea, but lets make some Assault maps first.
Yes, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, but without the CTF element.
I think I was wrong when I said that this would be a modified version of Assault. This is much more like Onslaught, so the two game types can be developed separately
By the way, there was definitely an Assault map (here) but the mapper deleted it :/
RE: New game type! - Roanoke - 04-02-2010
(04-02-2010, 05:00 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote:The contested control point is always being fought over. It's always being looked at.(04-01-2010, 07:19 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: How would this differ from Onslaught?
Onslaught is just about picking up loads of ammunition and unloading it all on a control point when no-one's looking. There's not much strategy in it.
What I'm suggesting would be much more tactical.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-03-2010
(04-02-2010, 05:29 PM)Roanoke Wrote:(04-02-2010, 05:00 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote:The contested control point is always being fought over. It's always being looked at.(04-01-2010, 07:19 PM)Silica Gel: Do Not Eat Wrote: How would this differ from Onslaught?
Onslaught is just about picking up loads of ammunition and unloading it all on a control point when no-one's looking. There's not much strategy in it.
What I'm suggesting would be much more tactical.
That's probably true for smaller maps like runningmanctf but definitely not for huge maps like ons-reborn where there are lots of control points around the map.
RE: New game type! - Roanoke - 04-03-2010
(04-03-2010, 05:12 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: That's probably true for smaller maps like runningmanctf but definitely not for huge maps like ons-reborn where there are lots of control points around the map.
IIRC, only one control point is contested at a time.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-03-2010
(04-03-2010, 04:02 PM)Roanoke Wrote:(04-03-2010, 05:12 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: That's probably true for smaller maps like runningmanctf but definitely not for huge maps like ons-reborn where there are lots of control points around the map.
IIRC, only one control point is contested at a time.
Then you remember incorrectly. You can attack ANY control point, as long as you have either a generator or another control point under your control connected to it. Maps like ons-reborn have lots of connections and space, allowing people to unload all their ammo and deal a lot of damage when there's nobody around.
RE: New game type! - Roanoke - 04-03-2010
(04-03-2010, 05:10 PM)ThePWTULN Wrote: Then you remember incorrectly. You can attack ANY control point, as long as you have either a generator or another control point under your control connected to it. Maps like ons-reborn have lots of connections and space, allowing people to unload all their ammo and deal a lot of damage when there's nobody around.
That's not a lot of control points, one or two. In any case, if you can unload on one control point, that means there's a battle going on elsewhere involving EVERYONE. Because in onslaught, nobody sits in the base and defends.
RE: New game type! - ThePWTULN - 04-04-2010
(04-03-2010, 07:34 PM)Roanoke Wrote: That's not a lot of control points, one or two. In any case, if you can unload on one control point, that means there's a battle going on elsewhere involving EVERYONE.
This is what ons-reborn looks like:
![[Image: qLgMqa.png]](http://imagebin.ca/img/qLgMqa.png)
If Red Hill and Crossroads are occupied by different teams, then there are four control points that can be fought over (Red Mountain Pass, Red Outpost, Blue Valley and Blue Hill)
(04-03-2010, 07:34 PM)Roanoke Wrote: Because in onslaught, nobody sits in the base and defends.
Therefore, onslaught doesn't need much strategy. Which is my main argument.
RE: Onslaught - Improved! - Roanoke - 04-04-2010
Not so. In order to capture crossroads, one must first capture either B. Hill, B. Valley, or R. Pass and R. outpost. There are at most three contested control points.
Onslaught does require strategy, it requires coordination and proper application of forces to defend or take a control point.
RE: Onslaught - Improved! - tZork - 04-04-2010
Clear NO from me. Tremulous already exists, and doing major changes to a game mode while keeping its name the same is bad.
Maybe implement some game mode inspired by Tremulous in the future, i haven't played it enough to really know what its abt.
RE: Onslaught - Improved! - ThePWTULN - 04-04-2010
(04-04-2010, 10:58 AM)Roanoke Wrote: Not so. In order to capture crossroads, one must first capture either B. Hill, B. Valley, or R. Pass and R. outpost. There are at most three contested control points.
Onslaught does require strategy, it requires coordination and proper application of forces to defend or take a control point.
I've drawn a quick diagram to show what I mean:
![[Image: hD_zXxau.png]](http://imagebin.ca/img/hD_zXxau.png)
Red circles show control points under red's control.
Blue circles show control points under blue's control.
Black circles show neutral control points.
I think you'd agree that this is a very probable scenario. Here are the options that the Red team can take:
Control Red outpost from Red base or Red hill
Control Blue Hill from Red Hill
Attack Blue Valley from Red hill
Attack Crossroads from Red Mountain pass
However, Red also needs to fight off attackers to defend the control points they already have. For example, they will need to defend Red mountain pass from attackers from Crossroads (black arrow). This increases the number of contested control points.
So you were right in saying that I was wrong. As long as the central control points (Crossroads and Red Hill) are both occupied by different teams, all six control points are being fought over, not "at most three."
(04-04-2010, 04:57 PM)tZork Wrote: Clear NO from me. Tremulous already exists, and doing major changes to a game mode while keeping its name the same is bad.
So you'd rather leave it in its current form, where literally no-one plays it?
I want to add strategy, tactics and fun to a neglected game mode. Is that such a bad thing?
RE: Onslaught - Improved! - Roanoke - 04-04-2010
Okay, I guess you have a point. However, there is still strategy. One large army pushing in a single direction is not effective. Unless you strategize and send armies to counter armies, then you will most certainly lose quickly. It requires coordination and leadership.
(04-01-2010, 04:06 PM)ThePWTULN Wrote: Basically, there's two teams who try to destroy each other's bases.So basically, onslaught with no control points, just generators.
(04-04-2010, 05:06 PM)ThePWTULN Wrote:(04-04-2010, 04:57 PM)tZork Wrote: Clear NO from me. Tremulous already exists, and doing major changes to a game mode while keeping its name the same is bad.
So you'd rather leave it in its current form, where literally no-one plays it?
I want to add strategy, tactics and fun to a neglected game mode. Is that such a bad thing?
The reason nobody plays it is because of lack of servers. You think anybody plays anything except for CTF and DM? Hell, even CA is hardly ever played. I am totally certain that if a popular server became an ONS server (think one HOCTF server), it would retain much popularity.