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+--- Thread: Vehicles.. wtf?! (/showthread.php?tid=3020)
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Vehicles.. wtf?! - Wii-Wii - 05-17-2012
Hi there.
Today I played Xonotic for the first time since Nexuiz was abandoned. Vehicles... really?! I mean, I'm sorry to come back here after a while and complain in my first post but this has to be the worst idea ever! I enjoy most of the new things I've seen but vehicles are all but welcome in this kind of game. Xonotic is described above as "ultra-fast".. lol? Vehicles require big flat maps which are a pain to cross if you don't have one. Besides they are overpowered.
IMHO this should definitely stay in the experimentation box and never get off of it. Vehicles are gameplay killers. They are only good for ultra-slow FPS. I know this is not gamemode but a map-related feature.. well please, stop. The thing is, almost half of the maps I played had vehicles. It can be fun sometime, but not that often and only to relax between 2 real FPS games.
Voila, I hope some of you agree with me. That will not prevent me from playing this wonderful game but it really does suck.
Night
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - CuBe0wL - 05-17-2012
nope.avi
Vehicles are awesome.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - edh - 05-17-2012
I can't say I see vehicles as being in that many maps. None in the included maps at all! What server was it you were on? I did go and try and find some vehicle games up just to show my brother a few weeks back and couldn't find any running with a good ping. There is definitely a lack of good quality vehicle maps at this point which may explain the negative experience you had. Fun levels with vehicles is impacted as ever by map design and if maps are just laid out to be the shape the designed wants for architectural rather than gameplay reasons, it probably will be rubbish as you say.
I wouldn't want them to be in all game modes as that would just not work but as a side distraction in a few maps would be OK for me so I definitely agree with you that it can be fun sometimes, just not thrust down your throat all the time!
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Mepper - 05-17-2012
This is just about the dcc server. That server has a lot of normal maps, and a few veehicle maps on it. Some people there really like vehicles, and some others (like me and wii-wii) come to that server for normal Xonotic ctf. The gameplay with vehicles is indeed a lot slower than without, and for that reason I dont really like it.
The best solution would be to have no vehicles on Laid Back Delight, and another server with just vehicles.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - kuniu the frogg - 05-17-2012
i'm not a vehicle-lover either but, considering a fact, that vehicle maps are the most popular maps on DCC CTF server, i'm against removing them, what Mepper suggests. Ok, 40 minutes on sandstorm (yes, 40 minutes, it happens) is a pain for me, but it is not for most of DCC community it seems, so why to change it?
(maybe better idea would be changing a not really popular Transmutable DCC server to non-vehicle ctf?)
anyway, it looks like most of european ctf public players seem to enjoy vehicles a lot, whether we like it or not
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Liquid Sin - 05-17-2012
Simple solution here, if you don't like vehicles then don't play on maps that have them. mkay? great
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - W4RP1G - 05-17-2012
I think the vehicles are pretty awesome. My only issues are that there is no separate vctf and there are so few maps that support them. But.....the community isn't even large enough to populate the current game modes, especially with Overkill being so popular. So I guess if I had to choose between vehicles or more players, I'd choose more players.
And FYI, vehicles do work in this type of game, as UT2K4/UT3 has proven.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - CaptainAhab - 05-17-2012
^ Yep I was about to say, they worked splendidly in Unreal Tournament 2004, don't see why they wouldn't work just as well in here.
Granted this feels a LOT more like Quake than Unreal Tournament (a good thing in my opinion), vehicles aren't the worst addition I can possibly think of. They could be a lot of fun and a nice change of pace from bunny-hopping everywhere anyway.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Majki - 05-18-2012
There is nothing more ridiculous than complain about OPTIONAL stuff.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Wii-Wii - 05-18-2012
Politeness, I miss you. Optionnal doesn't mean unimprovable.
Like some of you said this feeling might be due to the maps themselves, not the original idea. But for now vehicles offer no gameplay at all. I guess they're fun but that's it. The thing is, DCC is the only European active server atm therefore there are no other choices than accepting these. So please don't anwser "if you don't like it, don't play it" or whatever.
But anyway I thought there'd be more people agreeing with me. Let's just forget about it then.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - edh - 05-18-2012
Quote:Politeness, I miss you.Sorry if you have the wrong impression here from some people. Let's all stay civil about this.
I wouldn't say I disagree with you but I wouldn't say I agree with you totally either. It is map dependant and as the maps on servers are votable, if there is a fad for vehicles, you'll get lots of vehicle maps, even if they aren't high quality gameplay wise and get repetitive. It's like with Nexuiz DCC ended up with the same few CTF maps going round and round for months. Entirely democratically of course but maybe everyone wanted to play Great Wall and Broken World alternating all day?!?
A non-vehicle server I'm sure would end up being quite busy but with empty servers common now, just one big CTF server seems to be where most CTF happens.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - rafallus - 05-18-2012
Personally, I don't like vehicles and leave as soon as vehicle map is voted. I'm not sure what it is. Personally, I'd prefer a server with only vehicle maps, so those who like them, had easy access for them, and other to be vehicle-maps free.
It isn't so much an issue with a game, as it is server setup thing.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - hihikaya - 05-18-2012
Well, i don't actually like veh maps much, but they make game different. When you play like for 4 hours ctf you get bored
, these maps makes possible to relax ('cuz of slow, campy gameplay) for a while without connecting to other server. I'm switching to cts when too tired of flag thingy So I'm actually don't mind these maps to be played on dcc ctf...
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - kojn^ - 05-18-2012
(05-17-2012, 05:35 PM)kuniu the frogg Wrote: i'm not a vehicle-lover either but, considering a fact, that vehicle maps are the most popular maps on DCC CTF server, i'm against removing them, what Mepper suggests. Ok, 40 minutes on sandstorm (yes, 40 minutes, it happens) is a pain for me, but it is not for most of DCC community it seems, so why to change it?
(maybe better idea would be changing a not really popular Transmutable DCC server to non-vehicle ctf?)
anyway, it looks like most of european ctf public players seem to enjoy vehicles a lot, whether we like it or not
I think the other way round.
Change the transmutable server to the vehicle server.
Everytime a vehicle map get's put on, a lot of people leave the server even if it's full. I go on DCC to play normal CTF, and vehicle CTF does actually annoy quite a few of the other regular players there who just want to play CTF without vehicles.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - W4RP1G - 05-18-2012
(05-18-2012, 06:43 PM)kojn^ Wrote:(05-17-2012, 05:35 PM)kuniu the frogg Wrote: i'm not a vehicle-lover either but, considering a fact, that vehicle maps are the most popular maps on DCC CTF server, i'm against removing them, what Mepper suggests. Ok, 40 minutes on sandstorm (yes, 40 minutes, it happens) is a pain for me, but it is not for most of DCC community it seems, so why to change it?
(maybe better idea would be changing a not really popular Transmutable DCC server to non-vehicle ctf?)
anyway, it looks like most of european ctf public players seem to enjoy vehicles a lot, whether we like it or not
I think the other way round.
Change the transmutable server to the vehicle server.
Everytime a vehicle map get's put on, a lot of people leave the server even if it's full. I go on DCC to play normal CTF, and vehicle CTF does actually annoy quite a few of the other regular players there who just want to play CTF without vehicles.
Exactly why a VCTF mode with specific VTCF maps would be beneficial. But, as a substitute, it would be fairly easy for any admin to add a VCTF vote that executes a VCTF cfg. The only really annoying part would be adding a custom map pool for both CTF and VCTF.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - nowego4 - 05-18-2012
I'll just throw in my two bits here too.
I personally don't do vehicles. I think it's got something to do with the physics/control/movement for me... it's not necessarily bad by itself but it feels like you're completely switching games when you get in.
Just a personal preference and hypothesis, not claiming what's better here.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - tZork - 05-19-2012
My apologies if i come off as offensive, but subjects with no constructive part (remove this, redo that) always makes me a bit pissed off.
Having written the code for it im obviously sort of biased, but: Just like everything else in this game, vehicles are subject to change - if like nowego says (for example) the offness™ is due to clumsy physics, then id rather see that improved then the whole code scraped. At the moment dcc has what, 2 - 3 vehicle ctf maps. If you cant be arsed (this is not only at op, but everyone that say they have to switch server as soon as one of those maps come up) to sit one game out every now then so the ppl that do like vehicular ctf get to play it too at times, then go find another server to play at. there's plenty to choose from.
(05-18-2012, 11:32 AM)Wii-Wii Wrote: Politeness, I miss you. ...
Wii-Wii Wrote:Vehicles.. what the fuck?!One could point out that is is rather impolite to the ppl who spent allot of time to code, model, texture, animate, balance, test, debug and so on, this feature.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - asyyy - 05-19-2012
Who cares, if people want to create code/models/maps/servers for that it's their choice.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - ==Troy== - 05-19-2012
To all of those who suggest vehicle-only server :
We already had veh-only server. During that time DCC had _0_ players. Entirely 0 players for most of the time, with rare 2-4 players who were mostly admins. Overkill was full, and veh server was full.
I'd rather have veh + normal ctf server, since then people have at least some chance to play normal ctf, besides vehicles.
Additionally, there are only 3-4 vehicle maps at the moment, a good point would be to add another set of standard ctf maps into rotation, so that the chances of veh maps is lower. But completely removing vehicles, and separating the servers will result in community split, where you would log on and see either of the servers full, while the other one is completely empty. Not a good thing for choice.
Regarding vehicle gameplay. It is fast. If you actually know what you are doing, which, most of those who complain, do not. Map travel on racer is extremely fast (~350 kmph) and flyers are reasonable too (150kmph), just use them, simple as that. If you are on a vehicle map, and expect to be able to travel across it fast without a vehicle... you might just go play minsta.
P.S. you can reach 200 kmph quite easily with laser jumping.
Beyond all of this, vehicles actually add a good bit of fresh content to the gameplay, and indeed, people seem to love it. The issue are people who decline to accept the change (i.e. old pro-scene), and, most importantly, they want vehicles gone, rather than attempting to improve them to balance, and make them fun. (they certainly are fun already, but have a lot of room to improve).
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - asyyy - 05-19-2012
The whole vehicle thing is not fresh at all, we had this 8 years ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wT7Ro44eBwc
I don't think that vehicles are a major reason for many people to play Xonotic, or will ever fulfill that role. Beside of that, I have seen some arguments about voting vehicles maps on DCC, didn't look like all the new players preferred them over "default" maps.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - W4RP1G - 05-19-2012
This reminds me, the only thing that ever felt off about the vehicles to me, was that they don't automatically switch to 3rd person. I'm so used to driving in 3rd person that it throws me off. So:
Is it possible to do this already?
If not, is there a cl_hook for vehicles that I could use?
And, is there a way to bind a key to toggle 1st/3rd person?
Also, should I make a suggestion thread about this?
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Mr. Bougo - 05-19-2012
There's no hook. You can bind p "toggle chase_active", replace p with whatever key.
"Suggestion threads" are for discussion, developers won't look at this when they want a list of feature requests. That's what the dev tracker is for.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - RoKenn - 05-19-2012
Troy, I'm quite sure that you're wrong in your first statement. AFAIK the vehicle server was switched off a while before the release of 0.6, the DCC servers switched from Nexuiz to Xonotic with the release of 0.6.
Anyway I can see that vehicle CTF is *very* popular with a lot of (mostly successful) "vcall extendmatchtime" happening. (Yes, and I love it too.
)I agree that in the long run there probably should be dedicated vehicle servers, but currently neither the player base nor the number of existing vehicle maps allows this. Once both are growing we'll hopefully get a more diverse server landscape.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - W4RP1G - 05-19-2012
(05-19-2012, 01:59 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: There's no hook. You can bind p "toggle chase_active", replace p with whatever key.
"Suggestion threads" are for discussion, developers won't look at this when they want a list of feature requests. That's what the dev tracker is for.
ok thanks. I will add something in the dev tracker, but I don't want to jump the gun.
RE: Vehicles.. wtf?! - Mepper - 05-19-2012
Troy, going fast doesn't meen that the gameplay is fast.
Sandstorm for example is so ridiculously big that the gameplay becomes very slow, and people will ALWAYS start camping in the middle.
Vehicing worlds xon is just the most campy map ever. 3 nexes and 15+ turrets per base make it just unplayable.
Unsealedtrial is the only vehicle map I enjoy playing, but still the gameplay isn't really fast.
Vehicles can be a lot of fun, but the gameplay is very map dependant.