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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Decrease amount of carryable weapons? (/showthread.php?tid=2354)
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RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - asyyy - 11-22-2011
Of course that's not for standard CTF but some extended tzork-like mutator. That way you could offer a lot of weapons while keeping it simple. Adding a bunch of allround classes with different weapon sets (right now there is only one, sg-mg-nex) would rock imo.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-22-2011
Quote:Depends on if you want new players to actually learn the game or just want them to run around spamming with whatever gun they pick upThis.
Your 'more fun' approach is just frightening. I understand that all the previous players, many of which came here from Nexuiz and stayed with the game for years, don't see a slightest problem in existing weapon made dish.
But as you're moving towards real release, it's time for core team to decide - whether they're making some kind of "elite" FPS or a game that everyone can enjoy.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lee_Stricklin - 11-22-2011
(11-22-2011, 10:48 AM)asy7um Wrote: Imo the better solution would be to remove/merge half the redundant "crap" weapons (you probably will disagree as you call for adding -another- redundant weapon, the minigun lol). Everyone who I make try xonotic gets annoyed/confused by the huge amount of weapons you can pick up. That's really a bad leftover from Nexuiz that no one dares to touch.
If you want fixed weapon slots, I would prefer player classes instead. So for example in a ctf game you can switch between attacker/supporter/defender/sniper/etc with each a different set up fixed weapons and no weapon pickups possible. But of course that's a huge amount of work, maybe the tzork mod can become something like that in the future.
HLAC and rifle should be ditched completely in my opinion. The HLAC especially is just like another hagar, except that it uses energy instead of explosives.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - naryl - 11-22-2011
(11-22-2011, 05:17 PM)asy7um Wrote: Of course that's not for standard CTF but some extended tzork-like mutator. That way you could offer a lot of weapons while keeping it simple. Adding a bunch of allround classes with different weapon sets (right now there is only one, sg-mg-nex) would rock imo.
It would sux unless you allow players to make their own classes. Which would essentially mean picking up all weapons a player wants (with a limit of e.g. 3-5 guns) before spawning instead of hunting for them in the map. May be a good idea actually.
(11-22-2011, 07:54 PM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: HLAC and rifle should be ditched completely in my opinion. The HLAC especially is just like another hagar, except that it uses energy instead of explosives.
Thanks to Samual. :) I remember divVerent saying he just likes the HLAC model and wants to think up a new function for it.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - CuBe0wL - 11-23-2011
Sorry to be rude, but:
NO FUCKING WAY.
Period. I don't have more time to explain, but that heavy machinegun you've might seen in a video is not a new weapon per se, and not for official balance either, but a replacement for the standard OVERKILL MG in a form of power-up: when you pick up the strenght, all your weapons will be replaced with even more powerful ones for a short time.
On the HLAC and TAG seeker topic, it's long rumoured they both will be removed, or even better, redesigned for a different purpose. Eg. Tag seeker as an anti-vehicle gun you could see in ut2k4 AVRIL (these are only plans too).
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - tZork - 11-23-2011
Wrong game for this, as the pol results clearly show. You could of-course use Xonotic base for sth like this, with its mutator system its fairly easy to make game changing mods in just a few lines.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - asyyy - 11-23-2011
Quote:It would sux unless you allow players to make their own classes.Don't be that harsh, it works well in other games that got 100000x as many players as xonotic (not even exaggerating).
And the poll result shows nothing as the people you want to reach (new players, players coming from other games) wont vote here.
I like your sig btw which sums it up well:
Quote:Better a little which is well done, than a great deal imperfectly.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - unfa - 11-23-2011
I'd be into making 4-slot mode an option! That would make the tactics more interesting and prevent one person eating all possible guns on the map...
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-23-2011
@tZork
Quote: Wrong game for this, as the pol results clearly show. You could of-course use Xonotic base for sth like this, with its mutator system its fairly easy to make game changing mods in just a few lines.What do you think of the idea Lord Canistra brought up, which is to have alternative settings, the player can chose from?
@C.Brutail
Quote:NO FUCKING WAY.Are you referring to the "P.S."? That was more a joke than a real request, you're talking to a DOOM addict here, I even need a minigun to make scrambled eggs for breakfast
Period. I don't have more time to explain, but that heavy machinegun you've might seen in a video is not a new weapon per se, ...
@LordCanistra
Quote:Your 'more fun' approach is just frightening. I understand that all the previous players, many of which came here from Nexuiz and stayed with the game for years, don't see a slightest problem in existing weapon made dish.I guess it's hard for the core team to decide on what to put in and what to leave out, which is perfectly understandable as everything takes a lot of work and I bet there's some "Nexuiz nostalgia" involved. However, the first official release should be clearly distinguishable from NEXUIZ, since most new players will not be interested in 1.) who programmed the game and 2.) what the history of xonotic is. So it might well be, that people might just say: "Same as Nexuiz, less players online, WTF is a race? OMG I'm not gonna wait half an hour until it's my turn in 1on1 DM just to get pwned! GOODBYE"
But as you're moving towards real release, it's time for core team to decide - whether they're making some kind of "elite" FPS or a game that everyone can enjoy.
@ unfa
Quote:I'd be into making 4-slot mode an option! That would make the tactics more interesting and prevent one person eating all possible guns on the map...Why don't you click on "I got a better idea!" then, ARRGH
P.S.: id tech 4 has been released under GPL yesterday, albeit it's lacking carmack's reverse
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mirio - 11-23-2011
You should not take the "new" weapons (HLAC, T.A.G. Seeker etc.) that much into account, because they are barely used (in maps and by players).
[Yes, I would trash some of them.]
Actually it's kind of funny to get to know how each weapon works (/me looks 5 years back = nostalgic now), to find out where they are useful and to master them (and the game) in the end.
Classes work in tactical shooter but not in a very fast game like Xonotic (see kojn's posts).
Probably 90% of the players would pick the class with the Nex for sure ANYWAY.
Also it's just totally wrong if someone says the weapons are like in Nexuiz in terms of function and damage. The only thing which is similar are the names and models (which hopefully will be updated soon
).The poll speaks for itself anyway...
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - naryl - 11-23-2011
Even in tactical shooters classes work only to simplify balancing. Firearms's system where you have some points to select equipment is better but a bit more difficult for players and makes balancing a worse nightmare than Xonotic's.
If you want players to carry fewer weapons the best choice would be IMO to select any four guns before spawn and make shotgun stronger (on par with non-starting weapons). Should be a mod anyway.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - tZork - 11-24-2011
(11-23-2011, 07:42 AM)Sarge999 Wrote: @tZork
Quote: Wrong game for this, as the pol results clearly show. You could of-course use Xonotic base for sth like this, with its mutator system its fairly easy to make game changing mods in just a few lines.What do you think of the idea Lord Canistra brought up, which is to have alternative settings, the player can chose from?
Depends on what regard you ask me - as something id try out if it got made? Sure, could be fun. As something I would want in the core game and be willing to code? No, i don't think it fits the core game.
Basically I think Xonotic core gameplay mechanics should be preddy much what it is now, with some improvements and tweaks here and there every now and then. Totally ripping it apart and implementing classes, limited weapons and green flying hogs from mars are things that can be fun, but should be mutators / mods.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Halogene - 11-24-2011
^this.
I totally agree that limiting weapons you can use is not the direction the core gameplay should take. I don't even like tZorks overkill mutator due to that (no offense, I got high respect for your work, tZork). Most of the Xonotic weapons have got some unique characteristics that make them especially effective in certain situations. Collecting all available weapons in a level often is to your advantage, since higher weapon variety actually gives you additional strategical/tactical options and by that expand the playing styles you can go for.
The weapon diversity may be confusing for new players at first, but since you can blast away your opponent with about any weapon if you use it right, new players might as well start off using only a limited range of weapons they learned to use or that are rather easy to use (like MG or nex, if you can aim).
That being said, a classes thing or limited weapon arsenal can be a mod of course, I wouldn't mind but also wouldn't really care. I'm not usually against stuff but this is definitely a thing I wouldn't want to have in the core gameplay. If anyone wants optional restrictions client-side, fine, if she/he codes it, but I wouldn't really see the point.
RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-24-2011
Quote: Depends on what regard you ask me - as something id try out if it got made? Sure, could be fun. As something I would want in the core game and be willing to code? No, i don't think it fits the core game.In the end of the day, Xonotic is opensource, so once I can invest some time get get firm with QuakeC/C/C++, which I was planning for C/C++ anyways, I could code it myself, right?
Quote:That being said, a classes thing or limited weapon arsenal can be a mod of course, I wouldn't mind but also wouldn't really care. I'm not usually against stuff but this is definitely a thing I wouldn't want to have in the core gameplay. If anyone wants optional restrictions client-side, fine, if she/he codes it, but I wouldn't really see the point.Maybe the point would be to make available gameplay styles more diverse, while not using a class system (which I wasn't proposing). This could be quite interesting actually, I have never seen anything like that in a FPS.
By the way: Is there any "official" summary of poll results regarding game features? If not, it might be helpful to open a thread on that. Like "crowdsourcing" poll result assessment, by having everyone who contributes to the "assessment" thread post the result of closed polls in a certain format, e.g.:
thread link: url
approx. date: e.g. 7/11
Poll Question: Jump 200 metres high and explode when hitting floor?
Poll result: disapproved
additional comments: none
This thread could be refined over time and rechecked by the community for accuracy. Comments that are misplaced (because they do not summarize a poll), would have to be relocated by an administrator from time to time to a separate thread ("comments on summary threads"). Might be quite useful to keep track of ideas, while keeping it simple, don't you think?