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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Cut down on the number of weapons (/showthread.php?tid=2513)
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Lee_Stricklin - 01-27-2012
(01-27-2012, 06:48 AM)divVerent Wrote: @kojn: yes, I would agree with a large rifle headshot damage, BUT then we'd have to lower the body damage to get it balanced again.
@rafallus: "(if anything, I'd be for removing the rifle and adding headshots to nex)"
This basically boils down to "remove Nex, change Rifle to use Cells, give Rifle a cool model".
And yes, that's what I actually originally intended when designing the rifle gameplay mechanics, other than the Cells part.
Samual has some weapon balance ideas to fix the rifle's being "out of place", by replacing the bullets ammo type by something futuristic, and adjusting the models accordingly.
Sounds a bit radical but at the same time it sounds like it would fix most of the problems. I like the idea. I just hope the current Nex model doesn't get ditched because it looks too damn cool to get rid of.
(01-27-2012, 06:14 AM)asy7um Wrote: Edit: iirc Samual wants to change the mg into a chaingun when the lg gets added, so the new mg will probably be even more powerful in close range and less useful in long range.
![[Image: evilgrinmoderatelydamag.png]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6898/evilgrinmoderatelydamag.png)
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - asyyy - 01-28-2012
(01-27-2012, 11:59 PM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote:(01-27-2012, 06:14 AM)asy7um Wrote: Edit: iirc Samual wants to change the mg into a chaingun when the lg gets added, so the new mg will probably be even more powerful in close range and less useful in long range.
Ready to smash those f**kers with a proper gun. Stress management here I come!
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Lee_Stricklin - 01-28-2012
(01-28-2012, 03:53 AM)asy7um Wrote: Ready to smash those f**kers with a proper gun. Stress management here I come!
Sayonara little cancerous f**kers!
![[Image: evilgrinmoderatelydamag.png]](http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6898/evilgrinmoderatelydamag.png)
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - rafallus - 01-28-2012
Good to hear rifle and nex will get consolidated. But I agree nex's model is very cool. Also, nex seems to be more common than rifle, so it would be better to have it in the "core weapons" set as one of devs put it.
A few ideas:
1) Nex's charging action is pretty neat idea, maybe it would be cool to preserve it as alternate fire mode, which would be not fixed in damage, but potentially could do more, if fully charged. As an alternative, it could be charged by holding down fire and then releasing a powerful discharge.
2) IMO headshots can do 100 dmg no problem, as in they would be one hit kill for unarmored opponent. But anyone on most maps can quickly get some armor, at least in shards form, or even health +5 packs, and easily render headshot no longer one-hit kill. UT2004 headshots did 2x base damage IIRC (140 for lightning), and there was no armor shards to quickly render yourself immune to one-hit kill (+5 vials at best, kegs and shields had to be map controlled, or you weren't getting any, and even vials respawned after quite a while). So I don't think 100 dmg would be overkill, and even if, you could still shrink the area to make headshots harder to do.
Quote:That doesn't answer my question about what it is supposed to add to gameplay. It would be stronger than the sg and it would also be hitscan.. just like the mg primary. So one could replace mg with a super shotgun and tweak the rifle to take over the long-range aspect of mg secondary. That would be an option though I'm not sure if it makes much sense.
Stronger than sg part is pretty obvious, otherwise what would be the point of having it as a collectable weapon in the first place?
Mg primary in current form doesn't play anything like shotgun, other than being more effective at close range. With shotgun you need to time your release right or you face a reload time. With mg (even with clip) you have 80 rounds, at current ROF there is decent time for firing continuously before you have to reload. You just hold an enemy in an area receiving hail of bullets for two seconds or so and that's it. Even if there was burst mode taken directly from nexuiz, it would be like half of a second before every reload taking 1-1.5 seconds. Way different approach required.
If mg is meant to be done like Q2 chaingun, it will play even more different than that. Do you remember how fast that weapon burned through ammo? Don't get me wrong - it's a killer weapon and I's sure love to see it in Xonotic, but it doesn't play anywhere like sg or mg primary either.
Mg secondary IMO is fine the way it is - sort of a long range makeshift weapon, not as damaging as nex/rifle, but quicker to follow up in case you miss.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - kojn^ - 01-28-2012
When the Arc Cannon (Or whatever it will be called) comes in, I am looking forward too seeing if the MG goes towards the chaingun/minigun look, will be pretty cool. Actually I'm looking forward too see what the secondary of the Arc Cannon will be when it first get's implemented.
And yea rafallus, I agree with headshots, I'd like too see a 100dmg for one also
The game is taking a nice shape/development towards 1.0
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - asyyy - 01-28-2012
@rafallus
Yes it handles differently than the current weapons, but does xonotic really need all possible weapons from all games? Hagar secondary and electro combo also deal huge damage at close range and depend on cautious timing. Wont be easy to balance a super shotgun against those two for example, as it would be easier to use (hitscan) and there is no risk of self-damage.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Justin - 01-28-2012
(01-28-2012, 09:57 AM)kojn^ Wrote: And yea rafallus, I agree with headshots, I'd like too see a 100dmg for one alsoI can already see all these guys from COD and BF3 moving into Xonotic.
The game is taking a nice shape/development towards 1.0
Keep this work up, developers! Keep it up!
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - kuniu the frogg - 01-28-2012
just my two cents, but i kind of don't like the idea that you can kill a freshly spawned player with just one shot.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Cortez666 - 01-28-2012
(01-28-2012, 01:24 PM)kuniu the frogg Wrote: just my two cents, but i kind of don't like the idea that you can kill a freshly spawned player with just one shot.
if you like that you can play minsta
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - rafallus - 01-28-2012
Quote:just my two cents, but i kind of don't like the idea that you can kill a freshly spawned player with just one shot.
That would mean you have to tone down quite a few current weapons. Because you can already do that anyway. With preloaded hagar. Or direct hit from a rocket. Or by melee. Or with three electro balls fired quickly - it isn't technically one hit, but it can happen so fast it doesn't matter. Heck, look at Nexuiz weapon datasheet and see for yourself, how it used to be a while ago.
There is nothing wrong with one hit-kills, as long as they are made reasonably hard to do. Which is my idea all along - small area for headshot, big damage in return. All common fast paced shooters (Quake/UT family - in Q3 family though starting HP are set at 125 and go down slowly, but most weapons can do 100 dmg with one well placed shot or so fast it doesn't matter it wasn't one shot - like plasma or chain) have those, they are just made hard enough to be satisfying.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - kojn^ - 01-28-2012
Yes, headshot to do 100dmg
Good points rafallus.
What's this thing about a super shotgun? I'd rather Xonotic kept it's originality with most of the current weapons, no need for a super shotgun imo
A chaingun weapon however is to be/would be epic!
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Mepper - 01-28-2012
Kojn: Join overkill server, get quad, pull out mg, feel awesome.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - kojn^ - 01-28-2012
haha Mepper, I may try this
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - rafallus - 01-29-2012
As for super shotgun, if you mean the one like in Q2 I'm not a fan. I brought that up for illustrative purposes. Admittedly, I kinda miss the old Nexuiz one though. It was much more powerful than current one (and quite original with burst triple shot as well!), so it didn't fill the role of starting weapon too well, but it could be a nifty collectable weapon.
And indeed, waiting for chaingun. I hope it is like the one in Q2 and TA/QL - this is one insane weapon.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - divVerent - 01-30-2012
(01-27-2012, 10:55 AM)Justin Wrote: I would like to see it in-game. As fast as possible. I have great hopes that it will work. This is very nice solution, divVerent. But removing nex is sad a bit cause it has beutiful model
I am sure not suggesting removing the nex model. Either we keep the redundancy, or make a rifle-derived weapon that uses the nex model when we "merge" them.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Mirio - 01-30-2012
I believe the majority would prefer keeping the Nex instead of the Rifle (+ no merge). Also the Nex is pretty good balanced with the charging feature at the moment, so why break it?
Ammo system changes make sense.
Edit: Headshots (and the Rifle-look) still don't fit into this kind of game imo.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - kojn^ - 01-31-2012
Well Mirio as div0 said, would use the nexgun model. And I do think headshots could fit, I don't see why not. I'm all for this rifle-derived weapon merge! Headshots ftw.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Lee_Stricklin - 01-31-2012
(01-31-2012, 07:37 AM)kojn^ Wrote: Well Mirio as div0 said, would use the nexgun model. And I do think headshots could fit, I don't see why not. I'm all for this rifle-derived weapon merge! Headshots ftw.
Too cool/interesting idea to not give a chance in my opinion. If it's cool, it stays, if it sucks well someone will likely raise hell about it.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Halogene - 01-31-2012
Can we then have the rifle secondary (long range shotgun) on the nex secondary, too? I mean, there's a zoom bind for every weapon anyway?
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - rafallus - 01-31-2012
I'm not sold on this rifle secondary, but I do hope new long range weapon will have two firing modes. But please, please preserve trail effect of shots, both because it looks cool, and it gives away shooter's position as a counterbalance for damage per shot.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - divVerent - 02-02-2012
A first step of the merge could be merging Nex and Rifle code first (i.e. porting all rifle logic to the Nex). The Nex then would keep its trail of course, but would get all rifle specific cvars. It could retain charging, and Nex balance would stay as is after the merge (i.e. no headshot extra damage yet). Then we can think about balancing it with the new extra options.
As for the secondary, good question. The rifle secondary is currently quite useful, unless you have exceptional aim. But a clientside option to put zoom there instead wouldn't hurt.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - theShadow - 02-02-2012
imo the default weapon zoom bind is just awkward to use, especially when trying to snipe.
what we COULD do, is combine the secondary of the nex and rifle. you can zoom in with right click, and when you fire while zoomed in, it fires the secondary of the rifle.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Halogene - 02-02-2012
Huh, that would not really be useful? If we have a long range shotgun like secondary fire (fire when zoomed), then we have the fuzzier shot on the zoomed function? I think it would be better other way round, if at all, but I guess requiring to zoom in order to do a full power precision nex shot will offend a lot of experienced players.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - rafallus - 02-02-2012
IMO it's zoom as secondary in nex which is horribly awkward, because you need to hold it down all the time, whereas with standard zoom you just press it to activate and press again to deactivate. Also, while carrying nex, standard zoom changes into same looking as if you were holding down secondary (just checked, different from binoculars with other weapons) so there is IMO little reason to keep it in secondary.
Also, there is plenty of fun in CQB fights with nex/rifle (read: harder to do because of parallax - target seems to move faster when close up), I sure would hate to see it ruined with obligatory zoom.
RE: Cut down on the number of weapons - Mepper - 02-02-2012
You can just set how you want your zoom. My normal zoom also goes away after you release the button, which is imo 10 times better.
And to be honest, I just disabled all this binocular stuff, since it is just distracting.