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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Accolades (/showthread.php?tid=1046)
Accolades - phim - 09-28-2010
AKA - Kill streaks
Hope this hasn't been brought up before, but one of the main differences I notice between xonotic and other fps games are kill streaks. (double kill, multikill, ultrakill.. etc). They make you feel much more accomplished and get your adrenaline running to get that extra kill. They could either be when multiple people are killed in one shot, or when multiple people are killed in a relatively short amount of time.
They could:
- Just be displayed
- Or give some bonus like:
- Ammo (like in instagib)
- Health / Armour
- Some weapon (random)
- Speed boost
- More strength
- Make the lazer propel you farther
The bonuses could be given for high level accolades to make them less overpowering.
What do you think? Any bonus might change the game too much, make it unbalanced, and give better players an advantage. I think there should at least be an option to turn them on to display.
Edit: Grammars!
RE: Accolades - Friskydingo - 09-28-2010
I definitely want kill streaks implemented in Xonotic! It reminds me of Quake's "Killing Spree" etc. Ah, Quake...
That being said, I oppose the bonus system because, as you said, it could give an unfair advantage to better players. Naturally, like any new feature, a cvar should be added to enable/disable it. But other than that, the idea seems quite fair.
RE: Accolades - Liquid Sin - 09-28-2010
heh I think console Nexuiz is doing this with kill streaks by giving out bonuses or mutators.
RE: Accolades - divVerent - 09-29-2010
Just displayed-and-sound we already have. Giving an item for it doesn't sound like a good idea though.
RE: Accolades - phim - 09-29-2010
You mean it's already added? I haven't found it in the git features or the settings. Or do you mean the list of kills with the guns or the "you killed # people" thing in the terminal.
RE: Accolades - unfa - 09-29-2010
I think it would be very nice and it would give some extra thrill to the game, but giving items like ammo or weapons doesn't seem to me like a good idea. I think giving power-ups might work (speed, invisibility, strength, shield) - that just needs good balancing.
Anybody who has played UT2k4 remember the adrenaline system? You were given adrenaline points for killing enemies (or picking up special "pills"), the more you kill and the more and longer streaks you make, the more you get. Once your adrenaline points reach 100, you can do some special 'combo' by pressing a movement key combinations -you can get a speed or invisibility or strength for it. Maybe in some manner like this the 'giving items' might work great. You know, getting strength for killing three people in 5 seconds might be too low threshold as in good matches 3 people running around on strength might be too much, I don't know, it might as well be super fun, dunno...
RE: Accolades - rainerzufalldererste - 09-29-2010
if there were bonuses for that it would just get your kill streak higher!
...and it would be harder to kill the "KILLER!"
RE: Accolades - unfa - 09-29-2010
That's for sure. But it will also make other people think: "dude, why can't I do it? Let's get dirty!".
It might be a nice motivation to hold your life (at last!) than just go and finish a match with 1:1 frags:deaths ratio.
In Xonotic, without a time counter it would be a prize for endurance, and I think it would be good, beacuse now it sometimes gets stupidly chaotic when everyone gets one frag and get killed after that again and again...
Maybe that would slow the game a bit, maybe it will make it even faster, I think we can only trurly find out by testing it
RE: Accolades - ThePWTULN - 09-29-2010
We had Triple Kill (3 kills), RAGE (5), Massacre (10) etc. in Nexuiz, so I'm in favour of having this sort of thing in Xonotic as well.
What I don't like, though, is giving extra bonuses to experienced players who are able to make these killstreaks. It just makes them more difficult to kill.
RE: Accolades - jngdwe - 09-29-2010
If I may post my opinion on why I would totally support this sort of addition to the game...
To start, I believe that most open source games tend to have far less than stellar player counts for an obvious reason, they tend to stick to an OLD guideline for gaming. Example: RUN, SHOOT, KILL, DIE, GAME OVER, YOU GET NOTHING FOR IT. Now look at the massive success of recent games like Modern Warfare 2. Players get some sort of bonus for trying harder, be it kill streak rewards, new weapons, new items, levels/prestige, and things you can just put next to your name.
I wouldn't suggest new weapons for leveling, but at least kill streak rewards, balanced 'Per Game' items and inventory, Levels/Prestige, Perks to enhance player abilities, and the special avatars and call-signs next to your name.
I'm going to go into a little detail on the perks idea. Obviously, it has to be fair from the start, all players should have access to the perks, and maybe be able to level them up to a second slightly enhanced form. The use of perks would simply be a way to tweak your usefulness in-game in certain aspects, with balance maintained.
People are naturally going to totally oppose this, because it doesn't fit in the order of things related to quake and UT style game-play. But to make a game popular, you can't just stick to new flashy graphics and keep the same old tired worn out game-play, UT3 is a perfect example of failure because of this.
This is my opinion on why such an addition to the game, like Accolades, would be awesome. Sorry about getting off track in my own world for a minute, it just happens when my brain gets struck with ideas. I invite anyone who is interested to start a new topic and add on your own individual ideas with these guidelines, such as perk types, callsigns, items, avatars, and killstreak rewards.
RE: Accolades - clanclanclan - 09-29-2010
jngdwe Wrote:Now look at the massive success of recent games like Modern Warfare 2. Players get some sort of bonus for trying harder, be it kill streak rewards, new weapons, new items, levels/prestige, and things you can just put next to your name.
IMO, Call of Duty is an entirely different game to Xonotic. I barely ever play Call of Duty and don't own a copy of it, because I absolutely hate it. Your reputation in the communities surrounding AAA commercial titles like CoD and BF:BC2 is fairly well based on a number (your level/rank), rather than your skill or personality. For example, it's easy to get to <insert highest possible ranking here> by getting an uber-powerful rifle, hiding in a fridge and just blasting away at your enemies for three months, and despite being <insert highest possible ranking here>, you're still no better a player. You may have a clinical addiction on your hands, and a dependence on virtual killing that only hundreds of dollars worth of collectors merchandise and DLCs can fulfill (much to <insert developer here>'s delight), but you will have gained nothing in the overall scheme of things.
I voted "Yes (display only)", because it's the closest to "Yes (non-persistent achievements only)". IMO the current system is fine, and it just needs a little more tweaking and a few extra sounds, etc. I feel that perks do not give incentive for people to become better players, or interact with others and become a part of the community. Why ask how to laser jump and move faster when you can spend four hours spamming away to get a jetpack?
RE: Accolades - phim - 09-29-2010
I can't recall ever playing Call of Duty, but I agree with you completely. Why make xonotic into something it isn't? I play probably 10 different games consistently, and I don't think there will ever be a game I will play all the time. When I was making this post, I considered not including a section on bonuses; I didn't really think they would be accepted into a game like this.
RE: Accolades - naryl - 09-30-2010
(09-29-2010, 07:55 PM)jngdwe Wrote: To start, I believe that most open source games tend to have far less than stellar player counts for an obvious reason, they tend to stick to an OLD guideline for gaming. Example: RUN, SHOOT, KILL, DIE, GAME OVER, YOU GET NOTHING FOR IT. Now look at the massive success of recent games like Modern Warfare 2. Players get some sort of bonus for trying harder, be it kill streak rewards, new weapons, new items, levels/prestige, and things you can just put next to your name.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p1.html
Please, leave the YOU GET NOTHING FOR IT in Xonotic.
RE: Accolades - Calinou - 09-30-2010
Great idea, i don't think the Health/Armor/Ammo bonus is good, but the speed boost is good, depending of the award... (if you do a 50* kill you go out of the map
)
RE: Accolades - Halogene - 09-30-2010
My opinion (since you ask): displaying some sort of "rage" or "massacre" message for kill streaks is ok (like in Nexuiz).
Giving bonusses for killing sprees makes the noob/pro gap bigger and therefore is categorically not ok.
Personally, I couldn't care less about permanent "rewards" that go next to your name myself. But a permanent reward system (which would have to be combined with some sort of central authorization) would encourage you to
- play rape games, i.e. intentionally play games when all the other players are obviously noobs
- get angry at other players when a good killing spree gets interrupted just before you would have earned another reward
- see the goal of the game in winning/dominating rather than in having fun
Therefore, despite some positive effects on motivation, a permanent build-in and omnipresent reward system would lead to more seriousness, more competition, more frustration and more bad moods. To me, this equals less fun - and fun is the central element of anything that is called a game.
I think the only place a system like this could reasonably be implemented would be on servers dedicated to competitive gameplay (like ladder servers). I wouldn't want to see it on public servers, really.
That's my opinion.
Now a totally different thing would be rewards for crazy combos - like mid-air electro secondary/primary combo (in Nexuiz weapons) or triple-mid-air-laser-direct-hit-and-push-off-map kill or something like that. I think this would actually make the gameplay richer because people get encouraged to try out different things that involve the risk of being killed quicker (because they are less efficient if you don't succeed) instead of only trying to dominate the game with any means. Rewards, even permanent ones, for tricky things that aim at increasing the fun aspect of the game rather than at dominating or playing rape games would be a good thing in my humble opinion.
RE: Accolades - rainerzufalldererste - 09-30-2010
IMO we should test it...
we don't have any statistics about it!
Maybe there could also be "sounds" for it...
...you all know:
- First blood
- double kill
- triple kill
- monster kill
- master kill
- godlike
RE: Accolades - unfa - 09-30-2010
(09-30-2010, 02:54 AM)naryl Wrote: http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted_p1.html
Please, leave the YOU GET NOTHING FOR IT in Xonotic.
You made it.
I now see. Yeah that's what all RPG-s do. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Yes! Next level! Buy a spell.
Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. Kill mobs. 5h1+! How much longer should I kill mobs before I'll get any fun at all?
Replace 'mobs' with 'noobs' and you get the same 5h1+ in Xonotic.
I don't like the vision I've got from this...
Okay. I'am against permanent rewards in Xonotic. I think a global ladder (for those who want) in 1on1 matches could be fine (you do it if you want and if you get fun out of going up in the ladder and you're not encouraged in killing noobs, just beating those who are wanting to take part in the ladder) but if whole game had to start revolving around getting a higher rank number - then it could loose all that fun it gives us (me for sure) right now. Just by playing with other people. Not addictive unless you are there until you win with those pros in minsta
RE: Accolades - naryl - 09-30-2010
We just need to carefully select accolades that people can't specifically go for. Like global 1on1 ladder mentioned by unfa.
Accolades for sprees, combos, accuracy, time spent in game are wrong because they require doing something irrelevant to normal game to achieve them faster.
RE: Accolades - unfa - 09-30-2010
(09-30-2010, 10:19 AM)naryl Wrote: We just need to carefully select accolades that people can't specifically go for. Like global 1on1 ladder mentioned by unfa.
Accolades for sprees, combos, accuracy, time spent in game are wrong because they require doing something irrelevant to normal game to achieve them faster.
Accolades for capturing flags? For winning free-for-all matches? For using only one weapon during a whole match (hey.. that's a whole different story...).
Defending your base and not letting a single flag to be capped by your enemies?
Accolades for supporting your teammates with weapons? (the backslash thing)
RE: Accolades - naryl - 09-30-2010
> Accolades for capturing flags? For winning free-for-all matches?
> Defending your base and not letting a single flag to be capped by your enemies?
These would encourage rape games. 1on1 ladder won't because there's no point in fighting a player with lower rank.
Yes, if we somehow solve the team balance problem (which proved to be unsolveable IIRC) the choice of accolades will become a lot wider.
RE: Accolades - clanclanclan - 09-30-2010
naryl Wrote:http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-c...ed_p1.html
Hmm, plenty of good ideas to get people hooked on FOSS gaming
Perhaps somebody should make a mod with every single one of the ideas mentioned in that article integrated into it, and see if it's addictive. They'll need some sort of physical "VM", though, so that they don't cause irreparable mental damage :p. Afterwards, we'll need to hide the source and any produced binaries or documentation with encryption so hard to break that nobody else ever finds it again
</evil>But TBH I think that Halogene and Unfa are on the right track, with a ladder system for persistent rankings and messages, etc for combos and kill streaks.
RE: Accolades - XV22 - 10-05-2010
what the fuck? I don't get it, you mean "Triple Kill" "Rage" "Massacre" etc have been removed from Xonotic !??
RE: Accolades - unfa - 10-05-2010
(10-05-2010, 08:38 AM)XV22 Wrote: what the fuck? I don't get it, you mean "Triple Kill" "Rage" "Massacre" etc have been removed from Xonotic !??
I think they are still there, people just want to improve those things
RE: Accolades - naryl - 10-05-2010
(09-30-2010, 09:27 PM)clanclanclan Wrote:naryl Wrote:http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-c...ed_p1.htmlHmm, plenty of good ideas to get people hooked on FOSS gaming ;)
They already did it in PlaneShift ;)