[SUGGESTION] Decrease amount of carryable weapons?

[SUGGESTION] Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Printable Version

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Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-21-2011

Carrying ten or so weapons around is unrealistic and confusing, so how about decreasing the amount of weapons you can carry? This would be of use in e.g. CTF were team mates could pick up weapons that you don't need (and don't pick up automatically) because you're already packed to the rafter. The idea would be to order weapons into classes. Dropping a weapon frees up space for another one.

e.g. (incomplete)

melee
shotgun or SMG
nex or crylink
hagar or rocket launcher

P.S.: Xonotic is missing a mini-gun Big Grin

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-21-2011

I'm afraid some oldf-- senior players will definitely be against it. But it doesn't mean that either current 10-slot mode or 4-slot can't go as a game modificator. Or they can have equal rights as an option in gameplay settings.
As for me personally, I'm getting confused as shit every time I have more than 3 weapons on my hands. But, considering how many older players are (seemingly) fine with this, wreaking havoc during game with entire Xonotic arsenal simultaneously, it feels more like my personal problem with the game.

P.S. Minigun won't really fit, as it's mostly speed-oriented game.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-21-2011

WUT?

Only a few wealons!? Definetely not a good idea. Fragging people using over 5 weapons is just what makes this game so special. Just bind your weapons to keys, instead of scrolling and it wont confuse you any more.

You ruin the whole game if you make a maximum carryable weapons.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-21-2011

Quote: Or they can have equal rights as an option in gameplay settings

I like that idea, since having 4 or 10 slots doesn't effect fairness when it can be chosen by the player. Personally, I am not even sure how many weapons are available in Xonotic, seems to differ from map to map. Maybe the 4 slot alternative could be combined with "lean left" & "lean right" buttons. Would be nice to have different game play styles available anyway.

Quote: P.S. Minigun won't really fit, as it's mostly speed-oriented game.

Maybe you're right, but the rocket launcher is slow as sh**, too. Honestly, Xonotic isn't that fast (compare ezQuake / QuakeWorld).

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-21-2011

>Just bind your weapons to keys
Uh-huh, just bind 10+ weapons to keys and you're fine?
Even if I didn't need movement keys and other stuff, this would still be quite a trick. And I don't have one of those keyboard-equipped mouses either. Are you guys magicians or what~?

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mr. Bougo - 11-21-2011

You can use priority lists to bind two or three (or more) weapons on the same key.

Here's my config (on a Dvorak layout) for example (it might be a little outdated)

Code:
unbindall

bind ` "toggleconsole"

// (id) imp

// (01) 230: laser

// (02) 231: shotgun

// (03) 232: uzi

// (04) 233: grenadelauncher

// (05) 234: minelayer

// (06) 235: electro

// (07) 236: crylink

// (08) 237: nex

// (09) 238: hagar

// (10) 239: rocketlauncher

// (11) 240: porto

// (12) 241: minstanex

// (13) 242: hook

// (14) 243: hlac

// (15) 244: tuba

// (16) 245: rifle

// (17) 246: fireball

// (18) 247: seeker

cl_weaponpriority1 "3 2"

cl_weaponpriority2 "6 7"

cl_weaponpriority3 "8 16 12"

cl_weaponpriority4 "17 14 18"

cl_weaponpriority5 "9 11"

cl_weaponpriority6 "5 15"

bind 1 "impulse 230" // laser

bind 2 "impulse 221" // uzi, SG

bind 3 "impulse 222" // electro, crylink 

bind ' "impulse 223" // nex, rifle, mnex

bind . "impulse 239" // RL

bind U "impulse 242" // hook

bind P "impulse 224" // fireball, hlac, seeker

bind Q "impulse 233" // GL

bind SEMICOLON "impulse 225" // hagar, porto

bind 4 "impulse 226" // ML, tuba

// (movement binds follow...)

EDIT: I guess there must be aliases for these impulses somewhere, that would be more convenient to use.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - nowego4 - 11-21-2011

IIRC RedEclipse did this, and I hated it. Because they don't want to force players to make the switch (but want to allow them to), they assigned a switch key (e by default I think). Besides being distracting of itself, it also disrupts movement because you have to be over the weapon when you press the switch key (so when you're strafing at 80 km/s you're more than likely to miss it).

In Xonotic, this would also break most of our combos.

@Lord Canistra:
By default the weapons are bound to the number keys on the top of the keyboard. Ofc you can't reach them all, but I still use the first three (1: Laser 2: Shotgun 3: MG) as their default uses. I bound the Nex and GL to 'q' and 'e' as that's one of my favorite combos. Because I rebound 'e' I moved the hook/jetpack to ctrl. Other than that I do scroll to weapons (Nex-Crylink combo, another favorite, is just one scroll-notch, same with Nex-RL combo). I could also bind 'f' to something if I wanted.

And besides all this, it would rehash balance wars which I don't want to see again Tongue

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-21-2011

Quote:In Xonotic, this would also break most of our combos.

Ahmmmm, .... no.

Quote:And besides all this, it would rehash balance wars which I don't want to see again.

It wouldn't when offered as an alternative setting, instead of substituting the old one. This thread is not about changing any weapon balancing, but about auto-pickup presets and slot settings. Tongue

P.S:: I WANT "LEAN LEFT" AND "LEAN RIGHT" BUTTONS ON Q & E! You can put Nex and GL on 'em. Cool

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-21-2011

@LordCanistra: This is how I did it, it's not perfect, (it took me a month to get used to it) but it works fine for me now.

Movement keys are now esdf instead of wasd (that really takes time to get used to).
A=Rocket
W=Nex (also riffle)
R=Mortar
Z=MG
X=Shotgun
C=Hagar (also seeker)
V=laser
G=Drop weapon
Scroll up=Electro
Scroll down=Crylink (also hlac)
4=Reload
5=Drop flag/leave vehicle

And no autoswitch on pickup. This all is hard to get used to, but does work.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-21-2011

Quote:
A=Rocket

W=Nex (also riffle)

Hmm, I bet I'd be walking backwards with that config all the time Smile

Seriously, were are your movement keys placed?
[Image: wasd_vs_arrows.jpg]

P.S.: Any recommendations for a good mouse? Good, not perfect (price). My scroll wheel's busted.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-21-2011

As I already said, I move now with esdf.
So: e is forward, s is left etc.

This way I can have more weaponbinds arount my moving keys.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-21-2011

Sorry, I didn't see that in your last post. I just thought about using esdf instead of wasd, but I don't find it convenient. Maybe I'll switch to rdfg though, that looks promising.

However, isn't it a bit too much to ask from a newbie to change the whole keymap and play for a month to get used to it?

[Image: hardcore-gaming-girl-image.jpg]

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-21-2011

Quote:Movement keys are now esdf

Theeere be perverts...
Alright, I might give it a try. But what about 1-3 keys? Don't you use them at all? At least 2/3 seem quite usable when esdf is the center of all.

However, reduced armoury game mode is still an intriguing thing. It shouldn't be hard to implement, and such mode can easily find its target audience in those newcomers who came here from more slow-paced (should I say - a bit more realistic?) games.

Quote:However, isn't it a bit too much to ask from a newbie to change the whole keymap and play for a month to get used to it?

And, indeed, mind this too. If I'm ready to do so, it absolutely doesn't mean everybody will be. One out of ten, if not less, will probably stick with the game which right away tells you to spend a month or two on a hot intellectual intercourse with its controls and tons of weapons.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-21-2011

I don't really use them because I nearly everytime have forward pressed, and I cant press two keys at once.

But if you think you can use them, do so. There are no perfect weaponbinds, you just need to find some that fit you.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mirio - 11-21-2011

No, because every weapon fits for some situations in a match.

Newbies use the mousewheel to change weapons and that works fine even with default settings. Wink

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-21-2011

Quote:Newbies use the mousewheel

*Desperately tried to use 1-0 keys the whole time*

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lee_Stricklin - 11-21-2011

Decreasing weapon slots. Hahaha nice one! Oh wait your serious, let me laugh even harder!

(11-21-2011, 05:53 PM)Mirio Wrote: Newbies use the mousewheel to change weapons and that works fine even with default settings.

Veterans like myself who don't like pressing numbers remember when there wasn't a mousewheel and assign weapon switching to R and F. Also gaming keypads are useful for this sort of game because of the number placement, in particular I like playing with my Cyber Snipa.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - asyyy - 11-22-2011

Imo the better solution would be to remove/merge half the redundant "crap" weapons (you probably will disagree as you call for adding -another- redundant weapon, the minigun lol). Everyone who I make try xonotic gets annoyed/confused by the huge amount of weapons you can pick up. That's really a bad leftover from Nexuiz that no one dares to touch.

If you want fixed weapon slots, I would prefer player classes instead. So for example in a ctf game you can switch between attacker/supporter/defender/sniper/etc with each a different set up fixed weapons and no weapon pickups possible. But of course that's a huge amount of work, maybe the tzork mod can become something like that in the future.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-22-2011

That might be an option as mutator. But I would personally not reaply like it. I do like the huge amoubt of weapons.

Only the riffle and hlac could be removed imo. And replaced with other weapons of course Tongue

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Lord Canistra - 11-22-2011

Quote:Only the riffle and hlac

...and the tag seeker, fireball cannon, minelayer, - all the stuff not really used by anyone. And it would be best not to try fill in blidnly their slots by other equally useless weapons.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Sarge999 - 11-22-2011

Quote:Decreasing weapon slots. Hahaha nice one! Oh wait your serious, let me laugh even harder!

What are you laughing at? There already are servers that use only 3 weapons, or laser only matches. Wouldn't it be easier to have fewer weapons and balance these carefully instead of keeping the weapons from Nexuiz and thus having essentially the same game with a different name?

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - naryl - 11-22-2011

@asy7um: Classes are a bad idea that rarely works. If you want to limit players' choice at least don't limit the combinations.

@LordCanistra: There are no useless or "crap" weapons.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - Mepper - 11-22-2011

The tag-seeker is really awesome, and good as a norm weapon, the fireball is fun as some kinda super weapon, and the minelayer surely is being used and handy. More weapons -> More fun

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - asyyy - 11-22-2011

Quote:@asy7um: Classes are a bad idea that rarely works.

Seems to work fine for team fortress 2, call of duty and battlefield for example.

Quote:More weapons -> More fun

Depends on if you want new players to actually learn the game or just want them to run around spamming with whatever gun they pick up. I'm glad that most map makers at least don't use all the weapons at once.

RE: Decrease amount of carryable weapons? - kojn^ - 11-22-2011

Classes for CTF is bad, atleast in Xonotic. For standard CTF that is..and I don't really want to see another mutator we already got a lot already and we need to wait for 1.0 really and try and hopefully some more players.

Reason me no for classes in CTF, make's in in-flexible, you'd have to keep changing classes whenever you die say, if you were defender then your opponent got your flag and you wanted to swap to another class, by the time you did that they could be halfway across the map to cap with there team, it makes it in-flexible also as you can't really have static positions in CTF, I normally play in defence but I am often pushing up the map to help support my team-mates.

Also the idea of having no weapon pickups is just no from me in CTF, I want that flexibility, anyway I would never agree to such changes for standard CTF.