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+--- Thread: Brainstorming: Powerup Models (/showthread.php?tid=3557)
Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Samual - 10-05-2012
Hey guys, it has come up recently that we have a modeler who is willing to work on the powerup models! Problem is, we can't exactly think of the best icons to actually use for these model designs... That's what we have you for! Essentially, we need two models which are generally recognizable to laymen/new players as to their function WITHOUT conflicting with the game design.
For Strength, I've been recommending a "fist" icon-- sort of like this but with a ring such as in the logo around it. Alternatively, we could have an exaggerated projectile in the center of a ring, showing some kind of powered-up weapon function... but I don't think this idea is quite as dis-ambiguous as a fist. As for Invulnerability (aka Shield, but that's not the real name for it)... this one is a bit difficult to demonstrate while keeping with the theme/styling of the game... For example, we can't really do an icon of a shield as there is no actual shield given to the player... (there is another discussion to be had there...) but that is the most recognizable symbol.
By the way, we absolutely can take note of how other games do these kind of notifications... for example, Call of Duty shows "stopping power" (i.e., strength) with this icon, and it shows "juggernaut" (i.e., invulnerability) with this one or this one. Most people figure these meanings out pretty quickly even without any other visual or linguistic cue.
Slightly related: I want to find a way to do a full-model effect (or similar, like a cylindrical energy ring around the player body) like seen in Quake games for the powerups.... additionally, I think it may be a good idea to choose different colors for powerups now... such as cyan for invulnerability (more passive color), orange for strength (more aggressive color), this way they don't conflict with team coloring of Red and Blue teams... It will also be much easier to identify players with powerups with a new visual effect.
I should say though, with my notification system i'm working on now, there will be far better notifications for powerups... Such as "Your weapons are now infused with Strength!" and "The enemy got the Strength powerup!" centerprints and notifications.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - hutty - 10-05-2012
On a side note ... will we be getting models for the runes too?
(and can the runes be placeable in a non-runematch map as a powerup)
As for model style ... I would like to have it match the cross-hair styles somehow ...
I'll come up with some actual ideas later.
... mushrooms ...
edit ::
I would avoid bodyparts ... like arms and hands and stuff ... because ... a gak doesn't have the same hand as a human ... and its kinda creepy to have a floating hand in the middle of the stage ...
Also ... avoid food ... food never works unless its kirby, or mushrooms. (potions do not count as food)
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Samual - 10-05-2012
forget about runes and runematch, runematch sucks... we had relics by Taoki, but they were never implemented well enough.
However, I may be open to suggestions for other powerups which are on par with Strength and Invulnerability... Just as long as you guys keep the silliness down a notch
It can't be something too arbitrary... Some logical ideas to throw out there right now: Healing powerup which heals team mates... Suicide bomber powerup which, when activated, kills you in a very large detonation and also can severely hurt enemies... etc.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - s1lence - 10-05-2012
Coming up with good iconography for use in 3D is challenging. The fist icon samual suggested is awkwardly tall, perhaps a shortened fist or skull (possibly shattering) would be suitable. I also think that samual is putting a little bit to much emphasis on making the game intuitive on such a trivial level. Still, looking cool + being intuitive > just looking cool.
I absolutley belive that anything used has to work monochrome and have a distinctive outline, the COD buff icons aren't particularly good, they are only effective because of the fact that players are introduced to them with a text description of the buff.
I might doodle some ideas out tonight and see what works.
Overkill mod has a neat looking lightning effect in it's grenade explosion particles, maybe something like that could be used for strength. Quake 4's implmentation was good too. The trouble with mesh effects like quake 3 is that they make it apparent when the mesh is low-poly. Still just about anything's better than the current implementation.
Perhaps a good option for sheild would be some sort of particle barrier around the player that isn't a mesh effect. Something like this but very elongated and well animated with more than 1 layer.
I think one of the best things to look at for inspiration is MMORPGS, as the mages ususally get sick particle effects.
Maybe there could be suicide combos wherein if you get two powerups you die at the end and it causes an effect. Eg: strength + sheild = large radius explosion
IDK.
If samual manages to get every single centerprint he's suggested in the game i'm just going to use them as my crosshair
EDIT: Please don't google image search "damage icon" because there are some really nasty teeth if you do that.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Mr. Bougo - 10-06-2012
(10-05-2012, 11:37 PM)Samual Wrote: forget about runes and runematch, runematch sucks... we had relics by Taoki, but they were never implemented well enough.
Does "sucks" mean "is deprecated"? Because that's all that matters.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Samual - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 04:05 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:Referring to Runematch: Both-- Not only was it poorly implemented, its gameplay was of poor design and was rarely ever played.(10-05-2012, 11:37 PM)Samual Wrote: forget about runes and runematch, runematch sucks... we had relics by Taoki, but they were never implemented well enough.
Does "sucks" mean "is deprecated"? Because that's all that matters.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - asyyy - 10-06-2012
I actually liked the fist that you posted on the bugtracker. But I also like the idea to keep the Katana symbol as homage to Nexuiz.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - rocknroll237 - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 04:30 AM)asyyy Wrote: I also like the idea to keep the Katana symbol as homage to Nexuiz.
So do I. It shows players where we came from. It's a nice little reference.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Maddin - 10-06-2012
Some people suggested that a while ago, for using the strength powerup why don´t we just use the Xonotic symbol?
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Cortez666 - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 05:59 AM)Maddin Wrote: Some people suggested that a while ago, for using the strength powerup why don´t we just use the Xonotic symbol?
well Samual insists that it has to be a fist. The reason why he made this thread is that soelen made a strength model and thinks it has to be a fist instead of the xonotic symbol http://dev.xonotic.org/issues/1328
Now he is trying convince everybody of his idea and everybody who is trying to argue against it is 'out of his mind'.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Maddin - 10-06-2012
Well I have to say good work Soelen! I don´t see any problem with it and S1lencer had a brilliant idea:
S1lencer Wrote:Maybe we could split the logo into two parts, phoenix + flame effect for strength and the "O" around it for sheild.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - RaptorFX - 10-06-2012
I like the idea to keep the strength symbol as a root of Nexuiz. I think both Symbols have enough potential to be improved and to be used in Xonotic.
Btw. if you play other games like the Unreal Tournament, Alien Arena, Open Arena, Quake etc. the first time you don't know exacly what the items stands for. You learn it by playing. It is the same as the usage of the weapons.
Xonotic should not lose all artwork or symbols that come from its origin!
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - s1lence - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 07:30 AM)Cortez666 Wrote: Now he is trying convince everybody of his idea and everybody who is trying to argue against it is 'out of his mind'.
I don't think he's trying to convince people they are out of their minds, He's just strongly defending the idea of making the models intuitive. Or he may just belives that using the logo as strength is improper use of branding material.
Obviously the problem with this is that you can easily end up with models that look arcadish and don't fit the theme, classic nexuiz had this problem.
If we wish to avoid this one option would be to avoid design based around iconography entirley. If you look at the mega health and mega armour models they are designed around the functionality of the object. But then you risk confusing players if the power-ups are similarly designed.
Reguarding usage of nexuiz branding as an homage to the games herritage:
No.
That branding belongs to illfonic now, even if they don't legally own the symbol it's strongly associated with their game.
Edit: here's the how my suggestion on the bug tracker would look:
![[Image: QZqeu.png]](http://i.imgur.com/QZqeu.png)
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - asyyy - 10-06-2012
I don't see how this fits with "we need two models which are generally recognizable to laymen/new players". First of all, why would one associate a bird with strength and secondly the shield looks almost like the quad from quake where it of course serves a very different function.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Cortez666 - 10-06-2012
people who played quake will easily recognize soelens new model, as its quiet similar to quakes quad models
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - aa - 10-06-2012
One thing is obvious, invisiblity shoould be invisibel.
I thing thad the ring from Xon logo may work as a shield, bud i dont think that fenix's head would work, Its shape is too komlicated.
MAybee powerup models should look like the gametype iconz, but i that is just an option, i howether do not support it.
The idea that they should be alike with Megas is attractve as wellll.
bythe way is strength and quad the same thing? If it is called quad oficialy,the madel should be made of for parts ( no not windows logo)
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - s1lence - 10-06-2012
It's called stregth officially, quad is what a lot of people call it from quake.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Samual - 10-06-2012
Too much to reply to directly, let me just state some things...
- It is unacceptable to use the old Nexuiz logo still, end of story. Not only is it the logo from another game (and branding belonging to a company now, though we can still use it legally), but it also does NOT solve the problem of the powerups being un-intuitive.
- I was not suggesting to use the fist artwork I posted above literally, I meant rather putting a ring around it and centering it properly while forming it into a good 3D shape which looks like an item pickup.
- The idea of splitting the logo into two models (one for Invulnerability and one for Strength) is appealing, I will admit... but this also does not solve the original problem. Additionally, I don't think we can legally use just the ring without infringing on Quake trademark.... but i'm not sure. I remember we have had an issue with that in the past, and we had to work around it in some way just to be sure we didn't have a problem. Finally, this also makes it more difficult to add other powerups which make sense... There are only so many parts of the logo we can use... If to add another powerup we need to put a completely unrelated icon into the ring anyway, why not just create unique and more identifiable icons to be inside the rings in the first place?
- What I was considering to do with the model Soelen currently has made is: Easteregg... Example: These models are collectable, and we can place them as secrets on the campaign maps in hidden places or such. I really do love the model, looks great, but I just don't think it fits for Strength, and neither does Antibody... and the other guys on the team agree: We can probably do better. Read the comments on the merge request (scroll down) to see our thoughts.
(10-06-2012, 03:54 PM)s1lencer Wrote: It's called stregth officially, quad is what a lot of people call it from quake.It USED to be Quad, technically... but now it's not right to call it that. Thing is, Strength doesn't do quad damage multiplier anymore, that was just WAY too powerful... Instead, it does 3x damage and force.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - s1lence - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 04:26 PM)Samual Wrote: Additionally, I don't think we can legally use just the ring without infringing on Quake trademark.... but i'm not sure. I remember we have had an issue with that in the past, and we had to work around it in some way just to be sure we didn't have a problem.
I'd like background on that.
The ring isn't the same as quake's so i don't imagine it could be an issue.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - Soelen - 10-06-2012
pills, warhelmet, drugs, skull, alienskull, shot, shield, muscle, biceps, nerves, adrenaline, powersuit, phoenix, bullets, bullets with fire particles, hexagon-shield, hutty, engine, pumping heart, sword, tank, crosshair, missle, lawsuit, DNA, DNA modification, umbrella, wall, steel, molecular structure of steel, chains, gears, ghost, 3rd eye, protecting hand
what ya waiting for people it's brainstorming time!
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - asyyy - 10-07-2012
What if we take the bird that silencer suggested and make it look strong by adding muscles/fists? Something like this just fitting the artistical style of the game.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - .Danny. - 10-07-2012
I'll be honest, I read only about of of this thread properly but concerning ambiguity of power ups I would suggest an announcement only heard by the player when they pick up one of the enhancements.
Plus a short sound effect (pitch-rise effect when receiving power up, pitch-down when the power up time runs out).
Lastly, wouldn't it be slightly hypocritical to make the symbols easy to identify in order to cater for new players? I mean this game takes a lot of time and practise to get good at. I think the designs should aim to be artful, non-generic and impressive in design bar nothing. I don't like the idea of simplification in this case.
(Perhaps no one suggested that but I get that overall feeling for some reason.)
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - mega noob - 10-07-2012
(10-06-2012, 05:59 AM)Maddin Wrote: Some people suggested that a while ago, for using the strength powerup why don´t we just use the Xonotic symbol?
力 is the kanji for the Japanese word 'chikara' meaning strength, power, force, muscle.
Using the Xonotic phoenix would not represent that well - the phoenix was chosen to symbolise Xonotic rising from the ashes of Nexuiz
...Or something like that.
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - zeroql - 10-07-2012
How about this
![[Image: ?h=100&f=0&t=%E8%B4%94&c=FF0000&bg=00000...lo=v&lb=25]](http://www.jp41.com/custom-kanji/images/?h=100&f=0&t=%E8%B4%94&c=FF0000&bg=000000&lp=25&lo=v&lb=25)
strength, power
ヒ
HI
RE: Brainstorming: Powerup Models - .Danny. - 10-07-2012
Well...that is new at least...though not very interesting I think.