Xonotic Forums
[DM/Duel] zone - Printable Version

+- Xonotic Forums (https://forums.xonotic.org)
+-- Forum: Creating & Contributing (https://forums.xonotic.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=10)
+--- Forum: Xonotic - Map Releases & Reviews (https://forums.xonotic.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=13)
+--- Thread: [DM/Duel] zone (/showthread.php?tid=4560)

[DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 10-21-2013

zone
A small and simple duel map with a unique twist regarding item choice.

[Image: NQ3mGVR.jpg]
[Image: C4aqcHw.jpg]
[Image: 9uDNcGP.jpg]

Download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/62h4gwkyusj074f/zone_fix.pk3

Feedback is always welcome, especially the general flow of the map and item layout.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Halogene - 10-21-2013

Wow, this might be the first duel map where competitive players force other player models than Mega Erebus... I'll put it on DCC Pickup when I find the time.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Mirio - 10-21-2013

I am blind now. ;p White/yellow soooo bright.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Halogene - 10-21-2013

it's on DCC Pickup now. Also note that I fixed some settings about dcc pickup, nex damage is 80 now again. If there is anything to be fixed there still let me know.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Justin - 10-21-2013

I will give my review later when I have more time. Overal: Big improvement from previous maps (got inspired by warfare?) Wink

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Lee_Stricklin - 10-22-2013

*grabs sunglasses*

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 10-22-2013

@halogene

Cool, will be interesting to see if it plays well.

@Justin

Looking forward to your review. The map ain't inspired by Warfare, actually I got an idea of one room and made it (the one with red tele), then I made some connections, added two other rooms, added stuff to them, made some more connections, and this is the result. This map had no planning what so ever. xD

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Halogene - 10-22-2013

I had a run on it and this could be interesting. Need to play a duel some time on it.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Justin - 10-24-2013

Here is small gameplay overview I promised to do:

Ok, Firstly the negative ipressions:
  1. Map has absolutely unacceptable visuals (sorry to say it). You are probably going to say that it's a beta version and first relese but it's no excuse to relase something that looks so empty and repulsively. Because of that the first impression might be very negative even for those who claim they don't cara about visuals whatsoever. So It's -1 from me.
  2. There quite a few ramps on this map (some pointless and irritating):
    [Image: pointless_ramp_jump.jpg] and [Image: no_freakin_small_ramps_on_teh_floor.jpg]
    The first screenshot: Ramp leads to a upper floor and teleport does the same trick (but faster and safier). Obviously everyone will use teleport and ignore ramp. I would remove it. The second screenshot shows small ramp on the floor in the corridor: it's Very irritating when you bump into it.
  3. No way, man! Fix the ramp Smile
    [Image: no_wai_man.jpg]
  4. Very litlle edge and quite usefull. Make it wider (you can move the wall a bit out to expand the ledge)
    [Image: litlle_edge.jpg]

  5. This room contains of ony one weapon and the rooms architecture could be easier for players (the top floor is accessable trhough quite difficuly ramp jump (during fights it becomse impossible).
    [Image: what_only_electro.jpg]

  6. I hate when mapper adds such obstacles. Very narrow corridor. Therefore easy to bump into it and stop immeditally. An when players stops, the flow stops and good mood stops as well Undecided -1
    [Image: pointless_obstacles.jpg]

  7. Here the weapon (mortar) is visable only from one corridor (when player eners the room he/she can see mortar only when going from one doorway - left one in the screenshot) place mortar in a better spot.
    [Image: mortar_viablity.jpg]

  8. This corridor is way too long and also conects to many others which confuses me somehow. Considering the fact that map looks everywhere exactly the same (apart from the room with shelves - nice indicator)
    [Image: too_long_and_too_straight.jpg]

  9. This loop is pointless: If you remove it you also gonna shorten the corridor I mentioned in the upper point.
    [Image: pointless_loop.jpg]

Now lets go to positives:
  1. I like this idea very much: You go upstairs, take the 50 and turn around and see 2 cells you haven't seen before! Good way of directing players attention. This is allready higher level of level design:
    [Image: good_idea_cells.jpg]
    +1
  2. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/90490112/good_ramp_stairs_indicator.jpg
    I like the way you introduced players to the stairs: The end or the stairs ramp is visable from every perspective. Therefore player knows that there is a staircase in the corridor. Nice job.
  3. The layout seems good for DM and Duel (mabye too many corridors)
  4. Flow is good. But could be better

Concluding: There is a tremendous work to do but you have at least the layout sketch finished (I think?). Right now the negative aspects overnumber the positive ones but I am sure you are capable of fixing it.

Now there is a bunch of questions you need to ask yourslef (and anwser) about your map:

  1. Is your map original? Or is it another 'everyone' map?
  2. Whats the map's feel gonna be (atmosphere)?
  3. Does it have smart design? (Partially it has: Ramp indicators and direction control, but very litlle and it could be improoved: Light and contrasts indicators, light colors, paths....)
  4. Whats gonna be the treadmark of this map? What makes it memorable and YOURS?

In terms of gameplay:
  1. What game mode?
  2. Whats the goal/objective of the map (if there is one)?
  3. What type of gameplay (Fast/slow/tactical/vertical/horizontal)
  4. WHO IS THE PLAYERS?


RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 10-24-2013

Thanks for the feedback! Big Grin

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]Map has absolutely unacceptable visuals (sorry to say it). You are probably going to say that it's a beta version and first relese but it's no excuse to relase something that looks so empty and repulsively. Because of that the first impression might be very negative even for those who claim they don't cara about visuals whatsoever. So It's -1 from me.

I know it feels a bit empty (especially electro room and the cargo room), I already got some plans for certain details that could fill out the "emptiness". Although, the reason for the texture is to optimize contrast as this is a duel map, I wanted something that looked descent while being neither difficult to texture nor too ugly and good from a gameplay perspective. Just so you understand why I did go with these textures in first place. Wink So more details, not other textures is my plans.

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]There quite a few ramps on this map (some pointless and irritating):

The first screenshot: Ramp leads to a upper floor and teleport does the same trick (but faster and safier). Obviously everyone will use teleport and ignore ramp. I would remove it. The second screenshot shows small ramp on the floor in the corridor: it's Very irritating when you bump into it.

That is very true, didn't thought that the tele will be used instead for that, I still really like that ramp jump though so I think I might make it somewhere else or make it harder to get from tele to there somehow. The last statement is also very true, will fix in future release.

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]No way, man! Fix the ramp Smile

That's actually not a ramp (in trickjump sense), just a detail, I will make it more flat so it fits better. Wink

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]Very litlle edge and quite usefull. Make it wider (you can move the wall a bit out to expand the ledge)

I think I'll keep it that small since it was supposed to be more of a trickjump who feels natural to the environment, not looking like it was explicitly placed out.

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]This room contains of ony one weapon and the rooms architecture could be easier for players (the top floor is accessable trhough quite difficuly ramp jump (during fights it becomse impossible).

Yeah, this room feels very empty, I will add more items. The trickjump will stay thought since electro is the most powerful weapon on the map.

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]I hate when mapper adds such obstacles. Very narrow corridor. Therefore easy to bump into it and stop immeditally. An when players stops, the flow stops and good mood stops as well Undecided -1

Agree! Will fix that.

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]Here the weapon (mortar) is visable only from one corridor (when player eners the room he/she can see mortar only when going from one doorway - left one in the screenshot) place mortar in a better spot.

I don't quite understand what you mean, so you mean it's not visible directly when you enter the room that is the problem?

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]This corridor is way too long and also conects to many others which confuses me somehow. Considering the fact that map looks everywhere exactly the same (apart from the room with shelves - nice indicator)

I don't think this long corridor will be a problem, since there is no nexgun on the map. And that the map look similar everywhere will not be a problem, only the first run might it be. (Using picmip on a map with one texture set gives exactly same effect and have never been a problem to me at least).

(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: [*]This loop is pointless: If you remove it you also gonna shorten the corridor I mentioned in the upper point.
[/list]

I get your point, but I gonna wait and see if it adds something to the gameplay, if it doesn't then I'll remove it.


(10-24-2013, 04:21 AM)Justin Wrote: Now lets go to positives:
  1. I like this idea very much: You go upstairs, take the 50 and turn around and see 2 cells you haven't seen before! Good way of directing players attention. This is allready higher level of level design:
    +1
  2. I like the way you introduced players to the stairs: The end or the stairs ramp is visable from every perspective. Therefore player knows that there is a staircase in the corridor. Nice job.
  3. The layout seems good for DM and Duel (mabye too many corridors)
  4. Flow is good. But could be better

Thanks! (Also for the constructive critisism(which you call negative Tongue)) Also the questions you listed is really good, as I said earlier I had almost zero planning in this map, I just had these three goals I knew I wanted to accomplish.
  • Simple but not ugly visual design, optimized for contrast and gameplay.
  • Good flow.
  • Good architecture for a duel map.
Also, you said flow could be better, could you please be more precise since I really want a nice flow in this map? Smile

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - unfa - 10-24-2013

Justin, you could write a book on mapping!
Your points are great and the clarity of seeing what-does-what in maps makes all designing a cycle of decisions (make it this way, because it wil allow this and that), not just a random picks (make it this way, because why not!). Think about making a document about mapping! And If you do, please release it under CC Big Grin

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 10-25-2013

Played the map vs kammy, really hard to control all items, which is good IMO. Smile I'll have to make som sort of trickjump up to cell ammo though, electro is not as strong as i suspected without too much ammo, so I might even place a third cell ammo.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 11-09-2013

Okey, made new version.

  1. Fixed the ramps you could bump into by mistake
  2. Added easier way to access cell ammo
  3. Removed hagar
  4. Removed some light sources
  5. Some other minor changes

https://www.dropbox.com/s/62h4gwkyusj074f/zone_fix.pk3

Also updated first post.

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Mirio - 11-09-2013

Hint: For future release rather use _v2/_r2 suffix before ending up with _fix_anotherfix_fixed ! Wink

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 11-09-2013

Yeah sorry, will do so in future!

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - Brot - 08-03-2015

Thats one of the best designed map i ever seen. Heart

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 08-03-2015

Hehe thanks! :3

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - BuddyFriendGuy - 08-08-2015

@machine!, would you consider move away the spawn point right in front the red teleport exit? Some spanws were killed that way.

Also, could you fix the filename for *.mapinfo, and perhaps add a screenshot?

RE: [DM/Duel] zone - machine! - 08-09-2015

Don't have mapping environment setup atm but can fix the logistical stuff.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/gsfrhn