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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Weapon: Ice Burster (/showthread.php?tid=589)
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Weapon: Ice Burster - Exitium - 06-14-2010
So, the basic idea is, that all of the weapons are more or less developed for nuke the enemy into bloodsplatters and IMO there should be at least one "tactical" weapon.
My suggestion: Ice Burster
Idea
This is the weapon, which makes no damage at all nor reduce the armour. It just simply freezes the enemy for a few seconds (please, suggest how many seconds, maybe 1 or 2). While the enemy is frozen, (s)he can't move nor control his/her moving nor shoot.
Usage
Well, the main idea is, that this weapon isn't the best choice in DM. Of course you can freeze your target and then nuke him/her with another weapon (frozen seconds should be low so this cannot be OP tactic), but the best usage should be in teamplay, especially on CTF. You can freeze the enemy flag carrier preveting him/her escaping so your teammates can finish the dirty job (this needs teamplay, mostly on public servers people just want frags) or he/she fells into void while he/she can't control the jump.
Fire types
Primary (Freezing Ball): Shoots one fast-moving ball to the target (as fast as Crylink ammo). The enemy is frozen immediately when got hit. Ammo cost is around 10 per shot (whatever ammo type it has) Hard to aim, but you can hit long-range targets.
Secondary (Freezing Burst): Fires "flamethrower-like" freezing ice, which has small range but wide firing area (like ordinary shotgun). The enemy must be hit by burst for around 0.5 secs before getting frozen (freeze isn't instant). Ammo cost is 1, but it costs ammo all the time while bursting. Easy to aim, but just for enemies which are next to you.
Appearance
Well, I'm not an artist so someone else should model this weapon... But here's some art which should give an idea:
I like this. Maybe too much "bling", but something like this.
![[Image: brfrgun.jpg]](http://www.productionillustration.com/images/brfrgun.jpg)
And something else...
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/angremien/MrFreezeGun01a.jpg
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y8/J-link/fg.jpg
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Razor/DoomRelated/wwhc-xmshot2.png
So, what do you think? All comments are welcome.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - DiaboliK - 06-14-2010
I could see this as a Freeze Tag mutator, which would be a ton of fun. But as a weapon itself, I'm not too sure.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - unfa - 06-14-2010
I love this idea!
Could be an additional weapon and mappers would place it on CTF maps and such (like the TAG Seeker - not on every map)
Freezing flag carriers or jumping dudes seems soo much fun! That would become as fameous as Laser - a gun that does something more interesting than just harm.
I belive that gun would increase fun from playing a lot
My ideas for this tactical weapon:
I think it should do a little damage (being frozen hurts). The frozen guy should get some damage every second he is frozen - not much say 5hp/sec. That means being frozen for 1 seconds costs 10 hp - like a shot from Laser (or something)
Being frozen could work more complicated way than just Yes/No mechanism.
For example: getting hit with freezing ball means you can't move for 1 sec, then you regain ability to shoot but your jumping height, moving speed and aiming speed (limits mouse speed) is getting back to normal for 3 seconds more from the level of zero.
Getting hit by a freezing burst for every 0.1 second freezes you in 0.2. So 0.5 second is enough to freeze someone completly. But if he will get a 0.2 hit he will be slower: his speed is reduced by 0.4, recovering for 0.4*3 seconds from that.
This would also be a defensive weapon - you can freeze someone trying to kill you!
Numbers I've wrote would certianly need testing and balancing in-game (please don't sue me!)
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Lee_Stricklin - 06-15-2010
Freezing REALLY PISSED ME OFF in Unreal Championship 2.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - clanclanclan - 06-15-2010
I'd like a 'stun' weapon, where it made mouse movement and keypresses laggy and less responsive. It could do this for, say, a second. Just enough time to watch the player go careening off the edge of the map
Voted 'Idea ok, but has serious balance issues' because I could see a weapon with the ability to stop you instantly becoming very annoying very quickly when in the wrong hands
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - XV22 - 06-15-2010
I like this idea, it should make normal matches more fun, maybe it will make me start playing it instead of minsta only.
(06-14-2010, 06:01 PM)unfa Wrote: I think it should do a little damage (being frozen hurts). The frozen guy should get some damage every second he is frozen - not much say 5hp/sec. That means being frozen for 1 seconds costs 10 hp - like a shot from Laser (or something)
I think this is a good idea too.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Wii-Wii - 06-15-2010
Hm.. This might really waste the gameplay since Xonotic is supposed to be a fast-paced FPS. Besides I keep a pretty bad souvenir from the crylink of Nexuiz 2.4.2 or 2.5: its fire range was so wide and its power so high that you could barely move. So I think this is a good idea but it shouldn't inflict damages and its reloading time has to be important.
In the same spirit of improving teamplay, what about adding a tracker gun that wouldn't hurt at all but would stick an "Enemy located" above the head of the guy you shot for like 15-20 seconds allowing your teammates to find him and kill him? A bit like the "enemy seen" bind but stuck on the target (provided you've hit him of course).
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - jaykay - 06-15-2010
i think freezing can be extremely annoying. being helpless is always annoying.
this remembers me of the emp grenade in shattered horizon, where you can barely move and hear nothing after you get hit. while this of course adds tactical elements, it almost certainly leads to your death, as a freeze would do: freeze someone - switch to the railgun - aim for the head - shoot, easily doable in one second...
an idea would be that this weapon would fire a constant beam and if you get hit, you get slowed down to maybe 2/3 of your normal speed.
a tracker is too useless to be a gun. if you can hit a target with a tracker, you can also hit it with the railgun, which is a lot more useful
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Cuinnton - 06-15-2010
please type this propsal on the weapon wiki, so thy can be comapred wth other proposed weapons.
http://dev.xonotic.org/projects/xonotic/wiki/Weapons_Makeover
I personally don't think the weapons utilizes the engine enough. a gravity/chromo(time) changing gun would be nicer
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - kojn^ - 06-15-2010
So you want to be able to freeze a FC, who can't move, can't shoot, and loses HP..are you off your head?
As fun as this would be as a mod or mutator, it's just too outrageous and a bit silly for standard gameplay.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - DiaboliK - 06-15-2010
I second kojn here. This really sounds like breaking gameplay big time. I do like the idea of having a freeze tag mutator though
I believe there was a q3 freeze tag mod.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Roanoke - 06-15-2010
Hell, this isn't that much worse than, say, crippling the fc by removing the laser or something.
It's an interesting idea, with some changes. FCs should be more immune to this. It could be a beam that must be in contact with the player to maintain freezing effect (crylink is very easy to aim accurately). Getting shot will ruin the icing effect (explosions and bullets are hot).
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - XV22 - 06-15-2010
Why do u think it will ruin the gameplay
I second Roanoke, you proposed removing the laser (which is a central part of the gameplay) and oppose this idea !
and we are still thinking about how it should be implemented, I mean the balance. It can be a new good idea adding to the "feel" of Xonotic as a ground breaking successor of Nexuiz.
I agree it may be better to make it a mutator, as this is better for experimental changes like this.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Taximus - 06-15-2010
This may be interesting... But only annoying if badly implemented...
I also agree that if such a weapon is implemented, it should be a mutator first, this would allow people to test, and say what they think about it. Fixes and suggestions could then be made by everyone, leading to (maybe) a very nice feature of Xonotic.
I also agree that this would slow down the speed of the game if not implemented correctly. Complete freeze should, I think, be used with extreme caution. For the "go slower" part (2/3 of normal speed for example) it could lead to more tactical playing. I also think that this slow down could affect the speed at which you reshoot. Giving you a small, but possibly fair (you took the time to use the freezing weapon...) advantage.
Few more ideas:
1. Not an high range weapon (you should be able to know from where the shot come.)
2. Take time to reload, need to load when you take it before it can be used. (So that the freeze gun would really be about tactics and not about spamming everyone in your way)
3. If it completely freeze, the freezing time should be really short, lets say 1-2 seconds maximum as said by others (maybe just a stopping power, drops your speed to 0 if you are running, or something like this)
4. Very minimal damage, if any. ( Since you would probably be slower after, that weapon should not be the one that always bring everybody to death. Example: Slower+freezing damage going for a few second+the crazy guy in front of you shooting with his very big weapon)
5. Weapons that produce heat reverse the effect of freezing. (Not wise to shoot with grenade launcher, rocket launcher, etc... because your enemy would get back to normal speed and control because of you. Again potentially more team-play here)
Hope this helps
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Roanoke - 06-15-2010
(06-15-2010, 07:46 PM)Taximus Wrote: 5. Weapons that produce heat reverse the effect of freezing. (Not wise to shoot with grenade launcher, rocket launcher, etc... because your enemy would get back to normal speed and control because of you. Again potentially more team-play here)
Yeah, I proposed this too. Which weapons create heat? All rocket and bullet weapons, clearly, but what about cell guns?
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - kojn^ - 06-15-2010
Because the laser has killed gameplay for a long time. I oppose this idea because:-
a) the new physics are fast enough to use, so please try them and don't say you wouldn't be able to get away without the laser..I just see that as being false, teamplay hello?
b) You want to be able to freeze the FC, then he can't move, nor can he shoot, and he loses HP, that's just absurd, so basically you can't do anything, everyone can shoot you and yet you still lose health whilst you'd be stuck still!?!? <-- most absurd balance ever, the fact that there just going to be stuck still like a rock, how do you propose they get frozen, as soon as the beam touched them, has to touch them for 1-3 seconds?
As it stands the idea mean's the FC basically is just stuck still, wouldn't you be able to freeze other players as well or just the FC, how would tht work?
Please answer some of those question's and I might take the idea more seriously.
The gun would work well then as a replacement for the laser, why not charge up shot similar to the electro primary trail/effect, but moves slower, and requires a direct hit, atleast that would take some skill to use..still to only work on a FC would require some code I'm guessing, otherwise I can imagine it' just turn into a game of trying to freeze each other a lot..
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Roanoke - 06-15-2010
(06-15-2010, 07:51 PM)kojn^ Wrote: b) You want to be able to freeze the FC, then he can't move, nor can he shoot, and he loses HP, that's just absurd, so basically you can't do anything, everyone can shoot you and yet you still lose health whilst you'd be stuck still!?!? <-- most absurd balance ever, the fact that there just going to be stuck still like a rock, how do you propose they get frozen, as soon as the beam touched them, has to touch them for 1-3 seconds?
(06-15-2010, 04:02 PM)Roanoke Wrote: FCs should be more immune to this.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - kojn^ - 06-15-2010
Ok so the FCs are immune to it.
I would not have a beam that you can fire on players, if it's meant to be a blaster, it would have to be relatively difficult to use.
Again imagine no laser just for a second no matter how much it pains you. This would be put in place for that for example, then some kind of projectile as I said above like the electro shape, perhaps slow - direct hit. If it's splash would be all too easy to use, and again most of the time would be spent freezing people if it used splash.
if it was a constant beam you need to hold onto someone for example and it slowed them down like 2/3rd like Jaykay said
but then you'd need to swap to a weapon anyway..unless a team-mate is shooting them to slow them down..I guess it could do some damage also, it would have to really to make it worthwhile, but not a lot of damage, weak damage? Something like that would work, so your not freezing someone still, your damaging them slightly, they can still move and fire.
Would have to be short-med range for a beam/shaft type of weapon though.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - nifrek - 06-15-2010
All I can think of is people rage quitting the game because of such a weapon. I can't imagine something more annoying than being frozen. When I have connection issues and nexuiz freezes because of pl, I feel like punching my computer in the face, this would pretty much the same thing except you can actually watch people shooting at you while you can't move. I would even go as far as refusing to use that weapon, it's just lame and no fun for people getting spammed with it.
Or if I saw someone abusing that weapon, then I would concentrate on him, freeze him and wait by his side until he unfreezes, then freeze him again as soon as it's possible, and repeat that for 20 minutes or until he rage quits.
For a mod where that weapon would be part of the actual mod (ie: freeze tag), then sure.
For regular gameplay, no matter what you could suggest to make that weapon work to counter abuse or anything you think would make it balanced, I would still disagree 100% with it. There is just NO way such a weapon would be fun other than if your whole idea of fun is being annoying to other people.
[EDIT]Also, can we please fix (or even, make one) balance of current weapons before suggesting 100 new weapons that would break everything else?[/EDIT]
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Taximus - 06-15-2010
Seems like I'm not the only one thinking that this should be a short/medium range weapon, thanks kojn^
As for "complete freezing", it's not a good idea... That's why I suggested a "stopping power": any physical movement you were doing at that moment is stopped(need to hit the button again to continue?->but would this be new-player friendly?)
For the slowdown, I don't think it would make the weapon useful if you need to shoot your target all the time to get it... The slowdown could last a few seconds (10? less? more?) and the reload time of the weapon should be based on that time so you can't slowdown everyone in 2 seconds and then do almost all you want (something like "reloadtime=slowdowntime*somevalue"
That value should be greater than 1, but smaller than 3... maybe even 2 would be to big...
Edit: For heat producing weapon: should the heat generated by bullets be considered? I mean it's not like an explosion or lava (got a point here, lava would render the gun useless). I've never been shot, and don't intend to, but I don't believe that bullets carry a lot of heat. For plasma or other hi-tech weapon, I think it will need further discussion and that the type of projectile will be a determinant point in the decision.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Roanoke - 06-15-2010
I agree with nifrek's last sentiment - let's figure out where we stand with the current weapons before we invent new ones.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Taximus - 06-15-2010
Agree
@nifrek: That's why I was talking of "no freezing, only slowdown and maybe "stopping power""
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - DiaboliK - 06-15-2010
Taximus the crylink used to do that and people wanted it out pretty quickly
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - Taximus - 06-15-2010
One more reason to make it as a mutator or something (if it gets made!)
It did what exactly? Slowing or Stopping? In which release? I'm playing since 2.4 if I recall correctly...
Also, the crylink makes considerable damage, and this weapon would do really little to no damage.
I'm not saying it's "the incredibly good idea that will make the game 400% better", but I think it's an interesting idea that could be developed (and I'm not talking about code) and then, if we realize that such a weapon can't fit into the game, reject it. If many people think it could work, then we could try to implement it in the game as a mutator or something at the beginning, to see if people like it, use it, and see what it gives in real life situations.
100% sure that if a weapon of this kind isn't thought correctly from the beginning, nobody will even want to ear it's name or play on a server with it. That's why I said short/medium range weapon with very slow refire speed. It could also need to be charged manually before each shot.
Also, it's not because people wanted such a thing out one time that it is a bad idea, the way it was implemented was a way to do it, maybe not the best one.
RE: Weapon: Ice Burster - tankmiche - 06-16-2010
(06-15-2010, 06:54 AM)Wii-Wii Wrote: In the same spirit of improving teamplay, what about adding a tracker gun that wouldn't hurt at all but would stick an "Enemy located" above the head of the guy you shot for like 15-20 seconds allowing your teammates to find him and kill him? A bit like the "enemy seen" bind but stuck on the target (provided you've hit him of course).
Mmh... a gps-shooting device. Just like in movies! Sounds like a good trade for a secondary fire mode, but what could be the first purpose of this gun?