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+--- Thread: Singleplayer - what do you think? (/showthread.php?tid=639)
Singleplayer - what do you think? - ThePWTULN - 06-28-2010
I've though of a couple of questions to find out how we can improve the singleplayer mode of the game. I'd be very grateful if you could answer them! (The bits in italics are my own answers)
Tutorials:
1. How good did you think the Nexuiz tutorial was?
It covered the basics of moving and weapons, but I think it didn't teach new players much about some more advanced stuff (like laser jumping, grappling hook and the jetpack). I suppose the following bot matches were part of the tutorial, but singleplayer should be more than just a big tutorial.
2. Do you think separate tutorials for different techniques would be useful?
Yes, because it allows the tutorial to go into a little more depth. Obviously they shouldn't go into too much detail, otherwise the player will get bored! Also some more experienced players would be able to practise their aiming or laser jumping, for example.
Story:
3. Do you think a story campaign is a good idea?
I think a small story would be good. A big one would just take too long to make and it might take players away from multiplayer.
4. If some story maps were compatible with multiplayer gameplay (co-op missions), would you play them?
I would, but I guess that organising games would be quite difficult.
Other:
5. Would different character classes work in single or multiplayer? E.g. you could have a "tank" who moves slowly but has high health, or an "assassin" who is fast but dies easily.
It would be an interesting twist to gameplay, but the proper balance will be hard to find.
6. How difficult do you think the bot matches should be?
I think they should range from the very easy, to the very difficult. This way, new players can practise while experienced players can have something challenging to do.
If I think of new questions I'll post them here, so watch this space!
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Exitium - 06-28-2010
IMO singleplayer storymode should be similar to Quake 1 singleplayer, just maps to get from A to B and kill all the enemies on your way and solving simple puzzles (or maybe harder and more complicated, if someone is eager to develope those). And MAYBE some kind of small story between maps which is shown as pure text, like in oldschool games.
Sauerbraten has also this kind of singleplayer mode.
Edit: And yes, more tutorials for advanced tactics etc.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Lee_Stricklin - 06-28-2010
I think a single player should probably be done in a similar way to Unreal Tournament 3 minus the suck. A string of maps spanning different gametypes with modified rules would probably be good for telling a story. To my understanding assault (assuming it's similar to UT99 assault) would be a good gametype to use for a singleplayer campaign as long as you don't have to play a second part of a round and the timers can be modified or removed. Complete the stage I believe can probably be used to do the old school Quake thing. Doing a campaign this way would also mean that the maps used in singleplayer could also be used for multiplayer. Simple text during the game would probably be more interesting than trying to do cut scenes and other modern day crap as well, especially given the level of creativity one could have when they rely strictly on writing.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - FruitieX - 06-28-2010
I think it would be good to have short optional tutorials embedded into the story mode, and then in the following level require the player to use tricks that he learnt from the previous tutorial.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Cheshire Cat - 06-28-2010
Having a fullblown storyline would be something I'd actually like to work on.
I guess I'd be for it, although multiplayer is just so damn fun I don't know how attractive it would be to people.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Antibody - 06-28-2010
(06-28-2010, 10:22 AM)Cheshire Cat Wrote: multiplayer is just so damn fun I don't know how attractive it would be to people.
Before I even played one multiplayer game I ran through the entire story mode two or three times. It is definitely advantageous for noobs who don't want to get their asses handed to them the first time they play multi (thus the need for different grades of challenges).
I think what sets Nexuiz apart is its fast paced play, of which laser-jumping plays a HUGE part. I hope that carries on to Xonotic, and I hope that it is cultivated by providing some single-player challenges dealing with jumps and speed (other than race).
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - ThePWTULN - 06-28-2010
(06-28-2010, 10:19 AM)FruitieX Wrote: I think it would be good to have short optional tutorials embedded into the story mode, and then in the following level require the player to use tricks that he learnt from the previous tutorial.
Good idea - maybe the tutorials could be merged with the story itself? The first level could deal with basic weapons skills (hitscan weapons), where the player has to shoot at snipers using the nex (or whatever it's going to be called!) I think this would let the player learn, while keeping the flow of the story.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Roanoke - 06-28-2010
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 1. How good did you think the Nexuiz tutorial was?Very rudimentary, definitely showed the basics but didn't actually show players how to shoot effectively, etc.
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 2. Do you think separate tutorials for different techniques would be useful?Perhaps, depends on the depth of each tutorial. However, one big tutorial doesn't necessarily limit the depth of the sections.
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 3. Do you think a story campaign is a good idea?Yes, a story that is the "xonotic story" and is consistent with everything you do in xonotic (multiplayer, etc.)
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 4. If some story maps were compatible with multiplayer gameplay (co-op missions), would you play them?Probably not.
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 5. Would different character classes work in single or multiplayer? E.g. you could have a "tank" who moves slowly but has high health, or an "assassin" who is fast but dies easily.They could work, but only as a mutator (main game should be unadulterated FPS).
(06-28-2010, 05:56 AM)ThePWTULN Wrote: 6. How difficult do you think the bot matches should be?An increasing difficulty - start off easy and get harder. However, current nex bots suck so that needs fixing.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - clanclanclan - 06-28-2010
Imo, the groundwork for the tutorial is already covered in the docs at http://git.xonotic.org/?p=xonotic/xonotic.git;a=tree;f=Docs;h=ab55387edc251a7c40aa279b20ca3350a42a1586;hb=HEAD
A lot of the things in there can't be covered in a tutorial that is weaved into storymode, ie. say escapes, IRC, etc, so that may be grounds for a separate tutorial. Something I'd really like to see in any tutorial is simple target practise and repetitive type exercises, like nr_pads is for strafing. Perhaps a tutorial could even give you an exit grade, so you can gauge improvements over time?
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Roanoke - 06-28-2010
I agree that things like say escapes can't be taught in tutorials, but we can teach more than target practice (strafe jumping, bunny jumping, hagar climbing, etc).
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Cheshire Cat - 06-28-2010
Why not just incorporate a dojo map then into the game?
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Roanoke - 06-29-2010
That's sort of what I meant when I said one big map doesn't limit detail. Moo seems to have experience with dojo maps, so he could be of help.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - ThePWTULN - 07-21-2010
Personally, I disagree with having a single dojo map. If a section of the dojo needs to be updated or improved then the whole map needs to be recompiled. This would take longer than recompiling a small map that teaches only one technique.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Cheshire Cat - 07-21-2010
(07-21-2010, 12:57 PM)ThePWTULN Wrote: Personally, I disagree with having a single dojo map. If a section of the dojo needs to be updated or improved then the whole map needs to be recompiled. This would take longer than recompiling a small map that teaches only one technique.Personally, I'd feel better if we were to make an entirely new Dojo map with the flavour of Xonotic. Maybe we could make it look like a space marine training camp?
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Roanoke - 07-21-2010
(07-21-2010, 01:02 PM)Cheshire Cat Wrote:Again, mookow was working on a new dojo map. I liked his style quite a lot, but his textures needed to be higher-res.(07-21-2010, 12:57 PM)ThePWTULN Wrote: Personally, I disagree with having a single dojo map. If a section of the dojo needs to be updated or improved then the whole map needs to be recompiled. This would take longer than recompiling a small map that teaches only one technique.Personally, I'd feel better if we were to make an entirely new Dojo map with the flavour of Xonotic. Maybe we could make it look like a space marine training camp?
Sure, several dojo maps is easier for the mapper, but not for the user. And dojo maps should be oriented to the user.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - rainerzufalldererste - 07-24-2010
It would be fun if you could play the campaign online with your friends, too
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - Sir Emeth Mimetes - 11-25-2010
Dojo/Training maps should be able to be good for practice sessions for experienced players, building their skill, while still being usable and easy to train in for complete newbs.
Doing them in a multiplayer mode would be like a track meet: people competing to beat each others' score in the training area. Cool idea.
RE: Singleplayer - what do you think? - nowego4 - 11-26-2010
Tutorials:
1. How good did you think the Nexuiz tutorial was?
It covered most everything a little bit, but nothing in depth at all. For example, the laser jumping part didn't tell you that you can go even higher if you jump at same time
2. Do you think separate tutorials for different techniques would be useful?
Absolutely. Maybe one on physics/movement, one on weapons, and one on team gameplay.
Story:
3. Do you think a story campaign is a good idea?
No. I always figured that the "singleplayer" should just be renamed "training". After all, if you can't pass the 2.5.2 campaign, then you'll get torn apart online.
4. If some story maps were compatible with multiplayer gameplay (co-op missions), would you play them?
Agree with ThePWTULN.
Other:
5. Would different character classes work in single or multiplayer? E.g. you could have a "tank" who moves slowly but has high health, or an "assassin" who is fast but dies easily.
It would be fun, but sounds like way to much work/hard to balance. Sounds like Team Fortress.
6. How difficult do you think the bot matches should be?
Agree with ThePWTULN
So in summery, I think we should just rename the singleplayer to "training" and go with it.
