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+--- Thread: balanceFruit.cfg (/showthread.php?tid=725)
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - tZork - 11-25-2010
wall lasering IS less effective due to the lower force output. iirc you did argue quite hard for that to happen kojn.. this is one effect of it.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - kojn^ - 11-25-2010
I'm not complaining about it, it just seemed easier to get speed off walls before or more speed, I think this is ok as it makes you actually use the movement and we don't have super-fast ridiculousness (is this even a word
), weapons can actually be used. Anyway it's fine for me.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Lee_Stricklin - 11-25-2010
(11-24-2010, 10:28 PM)master[mind] Wrote: -_-
Ya know, speed was what made Nexuiz fun. It was the only FPS I played where shooting people wasn't the only adrenaline rush. I'm not sure how y'all are missing it, but combat really was rather prominent in Nexuiz, as a medium level player, I played against people far better than me in almost every match, but I still had large numbers of intense firefights with them, but not with newer/worse players. I think the setup was perfect as it was. When you try to please the n00b crowd with game physics and mechanics you end up with CoD. CoD is not taken very seriously. Meanwhile, Quake Live and TF2 are taken very seriously because someone decided skill should stay as an important part of a game. Yes, there is some skill involved in CoD, but problem is, there is very little technique to master besides Quick Scoping. Meanwhile, Nexuiz became a fun challenge of mastering weapon handling and movement control. The more I played, the more I was rewarded, being able to perform a better trick jump or capping that flag in less time. On the flip side, I also gained the ability to work with combos and watched my k/d ratio improve. I mastered some of the harder weapons and saw even more improvement in k/d. If were trying to dumb the game down for n00bs, then slowing the movement speed and reducing weapon damage is a great idea, otherwise, lets keep the concept of map control, tricky movement, and weapons combos alive. Those are the features that made Nexuiz Nexuiz, and should make Xonotic Xonotic.
Agreed. That is what made Nexuiz stand out from like EVERY SINGLE FPS EVER MADE. It should definitely be carried over into Xonotic and that's why I've urged so many people to try out the balance and physics tweaks I made, since I made those to preserve what made the game so much fun to begin with.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Flying Steel - 11-25-2010
What exactly is basic acceleration currently set to in balance fruit?
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - kojn^ - 11-26-2010
Maxspeed is now set at 360. I asked FrutieX to remove fall-off damage from the weapons, apparently when I was playing every weapon had it which is why I was getting so frustrated pummeling Unknown with rocket after rocket after rocket after rocket, same with electro and no death, the most teeth grinding annoying experience ever seeing how random damage felt, now that it's off on the server it's much easier to know you can commit to a fight and can get a true feeling of damage of a weapon..actually requires some skill now not to die.
Anyway aside from that small rant, maxspeed is 360, and I don't know what sv_accelerate is, frutiex can name the settings here but it's all very smooth and nice now.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Lee_Stricklin - 11-26-2010
Smooth indeed, though the weapons are still frustrating the hell out of me. I think the fall damage is still in there too, which I find annoying. I think the reason I kept my acceleration lower than his was to prevent that.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Flying Steel - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 03:17 PM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: I think the fall damage is still in there too, which I find annoying. I think the reason I kept my acceleration lower than his was to prevent that.
On the other hand, I say we need much more of it. More collision damage in general too.
If you want to move fast, you have to deal with the consequences. You slam into a wall at 20 m/s, you should suffer consequences. You don't make a turn hard enough and fall off an edge a hundred meters up, you should suffer consequences.
That's where you make actual skill, really matter. And that's where you make speed matter. The game doesn't play fast if you just bounce off of walls unharmed like in mario kart.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - kojn^ - 11-26-2010
Kind of agree with flyingsteel on this one, atleast the falling off the edge off something and down. Slamming into walls I think you need to slam into them pretty damn hard for it to hurt, but i'm a plus one (+1) for fall damage, basically flying steel said what I would say
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 11-26-2010
(11-24-2010, 10:28 PM)master[mind] Wrote: When you try to please the n00b crowd with game physics and mechanics you end up with CoD.
Congratulations, you have just stated the complete opposite of what/whom these settings have been tweaked for.
On a side note, we should just move all balance threads to the troll cave
(11-25-2010, 03:53 AM)Halogene Wrote: One thing I noticed during assault test yesterday is that lasering off walls to gain horizontal speed seems much more inefficient than it used to be. Maybe I was doing something wrong? I could only gain high speeds by bunnyhopping...
That's right, no more insane, game breaking laser caps in CTF, but also no whine from players who want to jump higher! It doesn't get much better than this!
(11-26-2010, 04:31 PM)Flying Steel Wrote: On the other hand, I say we need much more of it. More collision damage in general too.
+1
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - master[mind] - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 05:53 PM)FruitieX Wrote:(11-24-2010, 10:28 PM)master[mind] Wrote: When you try to please the n00b crowd with game physics and mechanics you end up with CoD.
Congratulations, you have just stated the complete opposite of what/whom these settings have been tweaked for.
On a side note, we should just move all balance threads to the troll cave
And I rescind my comment. I observed a few games today, and practiced some with the current balance. I enjoyed it. It takes considerable skill and practice to use the weapons in their current setup. That wasn't how it seemed before. Not sure how I was trolling, thats just how it felt. It doesn't feel that way now. It seems much more organized and smoother, which you stated before on the server.
Edit: It's gonna take some practice, but it was enjoyable, so I don't mind the changes at this point. It seemed more professional, as in good for 1v1 tournaments.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 11-26-2010
What we also should consider doing is decreasing either the health or the armor limit, because 250/250 is a bit insane.
Don't tell me the weapons are too weak, if we make them stronger you'll only spawnrape players much easier with them.
Maybe 250/150 would be less insane?
We could take over tZork's idea of only allowing 25hp pickups till 100hp, 50hp till 150hp, 100hp till 250hp. Smaller armors (25, 50) could even be limited to 50, while only 100a and 5a will allow stacking to 150a.
(11-26-2010, 05:57 PM)master[mind] Wrote: I observed a few games today, and practiced some with the current balance.
I recommend others to try this too.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - kojn^ - 11-26-2010
Your not alone mastermind, even though I play quite well compared to some people at the moment..I am spamming furiously at time's because I haven't got the timing down for the rocket launcher..need to learn to wait..then fire, crylink I suck with panicking when using it etc, it will take time, glad that you have put some effort in and are seeing some of the rewards. I know for myself it will take me a few months atleast to feel that I'm at my best in the game, learning all the new maps, new tricks, different situations, weapons. List goes on!
(11-26-2010, 06:01 PM)FruitieX Wrote: What we also should consider doing is decreasing either the health or the armor limit, because 250/250 is a bit insane.
Don't tell me the weapons are too weak, if we make them stronger you'll only spawnrape players much easier with them.
Maybe 250/150 would be less insane?
We could take over tZork's idea of only allowing 25hp pickups till 100hp, 50hp till 150hp, 100hp till 250hp. Smaller armors (25, 50) could even be limited to 50, while only 100a and 5a will allow stacking to 150a.
(11-26-2010, 05:57 PM)master[mind] Wrote: I observed a few games today, and practiced some with the current balance.
I recommend others to try this too.
If people don't want 200/200, this seem's like a really good idea to be honest..it also helps with balancing of the game, so i'll vote +1 for it. Good suggestion tZork.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 05:57 PM)master[mind] Wrote: Not sure how I was trolling, thats just how it felt.
You weren't trolling, but read e.g. this:
http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=725&pid=16989#pid16989
![[Image: Coolface.png]](http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100731150958/uncyclopedia/images/1/16/Coolface.png)
Ok, 250/150 system used in fruitiex/balance now.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Flying Steel - 11-26-2010
(11-26-2010, 06:05 PM)FruitieX Wrote: You weren't trolling, but read e.g. this:
http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=725&pid=16989#pid16989
It just bothered me to keep seeing speed go back up to 400 (where it was in Nexuiz) whenever a couple of people say the game "feels slow", despite the fact that basic acceleration is (last I checked) higher than in Nexuiz in these physics.
In Nexuiz you were already plenty evasive enough (without using laser) to dodge the large majority of projectiles. Anymore and anything that isn't hitscan starts to become useless.
So if versus Nexuiz, Xonotic acceleration is higher then max speed should be lower or vice versa.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Halogene - 12-29-2010
I never know where to put my feedback on the current Xonotic balance, so I tend to put it here.
First of all, I really like the way the balance is evolving. I have two concerns I'd like to mention, though.
Lately, I found the Hagar extremely useful. I found it that useful that people started complaining it's lame to spam with hagar (I was quite successful at that). Maybe we should decrease the damage dealt by hagar just a tad. It needs to stay useful, though, but I feel I got frags most easily with hagar in any enclosed map (which most of the official maps are now).
Before that I thought the electro is a bit overpowered but nowadays it seems to me to be just fine in comparison with the other weapons.
I still would REALLY REALLY like to have a weapon that does mostly push damage. When playing on open maps (that are hopefully about to come to Xonotic, too), and especially when playing freezetag it would be very useful to have a weapon that has more push force but low damage. That way you could keep people from unfreezing team mates by pushing them away. We could of course just give the laser a bigger push for everyone but yourself... (sorry if I sound like the laser's main lobbyist AGAIN
)
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Lee_Stricklin - 12-29-2010
There's a few things I like about it, but for the most part I still aint feeling this balance/physics setup. My main problem is that the game now feels like a slow-paced Quake clone (Alien Arena plays better than this now as does DM Classic, QuakeWorld, Quake Live, etc.) as opposed to being a unique mix of things like what was found in Nexuiz 2.3, 2.4, and 2.5. This feels really bad, for crying out loud the fact that you have to bunny hop EVERY INCH of a narrow corridor if you want to stay faster than a snail (I can run faster than the in-game characters for crying out loud and I'm in bad shape) is pretty annoying as is trying to set off a combo with a lightning gun. The Crylink still feels like an extra HLAC albeit with an interesting primary and I can guarantee that the nex is going to be a disaster if anybody decides to bring in some Tribes-style action that was all too common in 2.4 and 2.5. There seems to be cool things in these files, but they're overshadowed by stuff that destroys what made me like Nexuiz 2.3, 2.4 (this one especially), and 2.5. btw the health caps + rifle = me camping in a corner a few players quickly found out the other day. The ridiculous amount of pellets on the shotty also seems like a bad idea as it makes it too lethal at near point blank range, but useless between short and medium ranges. 2.4.2's balance got it right.
btw here's recent screenshots of Xonotic and Nexuiz servers. If this doesn't change in a month then you know something aint right. I know for a fact that MANY of your "few" players from the "dying" Nexuiz community aint happy with the movement/weapons.
Nexuiz 2.5.2
![[Image: r0sou9z5nz55gfyzf2z_thumb.jpg]](http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/viewer.php?file=r0sou9z5nz55gfyzf2z.jpg)
Xonotic 0.1.0 Preview Alpha (note the lack of pure servers in this shot)
![[Image: ydv63ko34a9p9z2zs8w_thumb.jpg]](http://pics.nexuizninjaz.com/viewer.php?file=ydv63ko34a9p9z2zs8w.jpg)
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Fisume - 12-29-2010
Why did you actually implent the Health/Armor limits? You normally didnt get more than 200 health/200 armor anyway.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 12-29-2010
(12-29-2010, 07:57 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Nexuiz 2.5.2(note the lack of pure servers in this shot)
I bet you not a single one of these servers run default 2.5.2 settings. Also the problem is more that people are still unaware of Xonotic. We don't (afaik) advertise a new "version" in Nexuiz 2.5.2 like we always did before, and even if we did that, people kept on playing older versions for ages.
(12-29-2010, 07:57 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: There's a few things I like about it, but for the most part I still aint feeling this balance/physics setup. My main problem is that the game now feels like a slow-paced Quake clone (Alien Arena plays better than this now as does DM Classic, QuakeWorld, Quake Live, etc.) as opposed to being a unique mix of things like what was found in Nexuiz 2.3, 2.4, and 2.5. This feels really bad, for crying out loud the fact that you have to bunny hop EVERY INCH of a narrow corridor if you want to stay faster than a snail (I can run faster than the in-game characters for crying out loud and I'm in bad shape) is pretty annoying as is trying to set off a combo with a lightning gun. The Crylink still feels like an extra HLAC albeit with an interesting primary and I can guarantee that the nex is going to be a disaster if anybody decides to bring in some Tribes-style action that was all too common in 2.4 and 2.5. There seems to be cool things in these files, but they're overshadowed by stuff that destroys what made me like Nexuiz 2.3, 2.4 (this one especially), and 2.5. btw the health caps + rifle = me camping in a corner a few players quickly found out the other day. The ridiculous amount of pellets on the shotty also seems like a bad idea as it makes it too lethal at near point blank range, but useless between short and medium ranges. 2.4.2's balance got it right.
You just like bashing everything that's new, face it.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Lee_Stricklin - 12-29-2010
I'll let the player counts speak for themselves and it has become pretty common knowledge on the overwhelming majority of Nexuiz servers I play that the project has forked.. It's been that way ever since March and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't take long for them to find out about a Xonotic release. Also why would I bash something if it's fun to play? If it's fun to play then I have nothing to complain about. If it sucks then I can either provide feedback, bash it, bash it some more, or fix it myself if I have the skill to do so. Also, it's perfectly normal for a game to not be too pure if it's been out over a year. It is however not normal if it's been out for less than a month.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 12-29-2010
(12-29-2010, 08:53 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Also, it's perfectly normal for a game to not be too pure if it's been out over a year. It is however not normal if it's been out for less than a month.
Can you please take a look at which cvars are impure before even stating stuff like this. I bet no cvar changes physics or weapons in any way yet on the normal public servers.
(12-29-2010, 08:20 AM)Fisume Wrote: Why did you actually implent the Health/Armor limits? You normally didnt get more than 200 health/200 armor anyway.
1. Players can't hog every pickup they see. This way there will always be health around when you need it quickly: after a fight. Also on public servers a noob can't take everything they see away from their teammates, causing more damage than good. (said noob will not play very well, waste of said pickups. Said teammate will not survive too well either)
2. SOME skilled guys WERE able to pick up INSANE amounts and even on some maps maintain something like 400 hp / 300 a. This is terrible for gameplay, especially in CTF but also in duel. The solution is not placing fewer pickups on the map, then you end up with more of problems discussed in 1.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Mirio - 12-29-2010
The preview version is not even out for 1 week and you compare the server lists? Oh come on.
NA players also need to play on the "NL balance server", because there is a kind of lack of NA servers (with people on).
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Fisume - 12-29-2010
Those "skilled" guys then have no idea about how to play CTF correctly
I dont dislike the limits, just were wondering.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - FruitieX - 12-29-2010
(12-29-2010, 12:43 PM)Mirio Wrote: The preview version is not even out for 1 week and you compare the server lists? Oh come on.
NA players also need to play on the "NL balance server", because there is a kind of lack of NA servers (with people on).
Problems will be quickly solved if Nexuiz admins would be active and put notices on their servers about the fact that Xonotic is out, and is the next version of Nexuiz. I'm pretty sure that 90% of the remaining Nexuiz players do not know about the fact that Xonotic has a preview release out that they can easily download and play.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - kojn^ - 12-29-2010
Seriously are you retarded? You can't base a playercount on a release that is no older then 6 days old, it's a preview version, and the server's are getting a little busier now. We also don't have a lot of maps or server's like nexuiz because config's and gamemode's haven't been properly set up on a lot of servers.
There is no batcave's of NA set up yet, or similar delight style one's yet.
I remember back on IRC a LONG time before you were around there was no more then 20 people, esteel,morfar,tzork,c.brutail, Vociferous and a few other's, why? Because it was Nexuiz 1.0/1.1 and that was after it was out for longer then 6 days's, now how many do we have on #Xonotic channel, approaching over 100+ this didn't happen in 6 days.
We most likely won't see a bigger increase in player's until a month or so after 1.0 is released, the fact that I have seen many new faces playing so far is encouragment enough.
As for Quake clone, did you even know that nexuiz 1.5 and before used Q2 physics and strafing?
You post little constructive thoughts, if any at all on Xonotic in it's current state. I even saw on facebook your first comment on the new's release were your balanced exec line's.
I think it's about time I start trolling your threads constantly now, before I was happy to atleast test some of your settings but I won't even bother anymore.
RE: balanceFruit.cfg - Flying Steel - 12-29-2010
(12-29-2010, 07:57 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: btw here's recent screenshots of Xonotic and Nexuiz servers. If this doesn't change in a month then you know something aint right.
Um. . . it's an unstable alpha release that's been out for less than a week, what are you trying to imply in showing us these screens?
If 1.0 stable isn't released tomorrow, then what exactly is supposed to change in a month from now?
(12-29-2010, 08:53 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Also, it's perfectly normal for a game to not be too pure if it's been out over a year. It is however not normal if it's been out for less than a month.
You know servers began hosting modifications of 2.5.2 almost immediately. The hitscan weapons were unanimously considered over powered. You are only making a case against Nexuiz stable, even though you claim this is evidence against the Xonotic preview.
When are you going to realize that, in spite of your spamming ads for your balance/physics all over the forums and then smearing this one, that your mod remains unpopular/boring?
When are you going to realize that you are the only one who cares about (worships) 2.4?