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[MERGED] CTF flag autoreturn time - Printable Version

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[MERGED] CTF flag autoreturn time - martin-t - 08-22-2019

I would like to increase the default time until the flag returns from 15 s to 30 s.

It should lead to more fights in different and more interesting locations (i.e. not just bases). Currently i feel like there's not enough time to get the flag again if an FC dies because often it autoreturns before i get there (especially if i wanna grab a few items along the way). Sometimes i just go attack the enemy base again even before it returns because i know it's gonna come back there pretty soon and there will likely be less resistance so i can just grab it and run off with it. OTOH, for defenders this means they have the option of defending the flag wherever it is dropped if they think it's a better position - at least for a while (until other teammates retake the base).

I also have good experience with it in overkill. It discourages stalemates when there are only few players - e.g. in 1v1 CTF you can leave the flag on your base and go attack the other player with less risk of letting him return the flag if you die.

I heard the return time used to be 30 s but was reduced to 15 because the flag sometimes got stuck at the bottom of lava/slime pits. This should no longer be an issue since now in those cases it autoreturns immediately (exceptions are when it's in very shallow lava/slime but there it can be retrieved or pushed with blaster, if there are maps where it's still an issue, the code could be fixed to always autoreturn as soon as any part of the flag touches such a liquid).

Opinions welcome.


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - Lyberta - 08-22-2019

I'd just set manual return where you have to physically bring your own flag to your base. Feels much more fair. That's what I use on my server.


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - martin-t - 08-23-2019

Manual return currently has big issues - you can just throw the flag into void or hurttrigger to get it to autoreturn (imho in that case it should return to its last dropped position without resetting countdown in the unlikely case it's truly stuck). People who wrote it realized the issue but they fundamentally misunderstood scoring (the incentives of the team and its players must be aligned) and decided to subtract points for helping the team. So until that is fixed i don't consider manual return playable.

Speaking of fairness, i think defending should be slightly easier than attacking. CTF is already very susceptible to tiny initial differences in team balance causing a massively imba game. Manual return would probably amplify this.


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - Lyberta - 08-23-2019

Since I'm mostly playing alone, I didn't think of all the details. I guess I just hate that I have flag but then die by random vortex shot and have to start it all over again.


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - bones_was_here - 09-09-2019

I support increasing flag auto return time, for all the reasons martin-t said Smile


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - Mario - 12-09-2019

Defending its position while waiting for it to return would be a lot less viable with such a long respawn time, so that tactic would sadly be lost by changing the timer to a full minute.
Additionally, in the events where the flag does indeed sit there for an entire minute, the pacing of the match would be thrown off, as unless you're crouch walking to a far away corner to get to it, it's unlikely to actually be reachable, so everyone would be waiting around for that long to be able to make progress again.

The reasons for a 30 second timer being shortened supposedly no longer apply, but if we are to make a change, that would be a more reasonable setting than an entire minute of waiting.


RE: CTF flag autoreturn time - martin-t - 12-09-2019

What Mario is refering to is my latest MR which accidentally suggested 60 s. As explained in the comment, i thought 30 s was the original very short timeout so i doubled the value without checking - turns out the original value was 15 s and we alredy doubled it 2 months to the current 30 s. So yeah, 30 s should be enough for now, let's see how it works.