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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Idea: auto-kick TKers (/showthread.php?tid=976)
Idea: auto-kick TKers - Antibody - 09-14-2010
Would it be possible to auto-kick players when they've surpassed a certain threshold of teamkills? For example, a player gets booted from the server when they kill more than 5 teammates. The threshold should be configurable to allow for other players to properly notify the offender.
(Note: idea from Edong on IRC)
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-14-2010
5 teammates is a very low threshold, especially in crowded minsta matches :x
But yeah, such a thing could be useful. Sad thing is that it really depends on the map. A space map in ctf has high chances of teamkills happening by accident.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - rainerzufalldererste - 09-15-2010
Maybe simply after 5 TKs in 30 secs the weapon doesn't fire the weapon(@minsta only primary) while pointing at a teammate!
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-15-2010
5TKs in 30 seconds is quite big. And if you do 1TK every 30 seconds, that's still a lot.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - rainerzufalldererste - 09-18-2010
Code:
public int _maxtks;
public int _specifictimesecs;Maybe simply after _maxtks TKs in _specifictimesecs seconds the weapon doesn't fire the weapon(@minsta only primary) while pointing at a teammate!
better now?
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - kuniu the frogg - 09-18-2010
in Red Orchestra (game i was playing before) they have a nice solution for this case (maybe in other games too i don't know).
Usually there's autokick after 3 TKs.
But when you're teamkilled and you know that it was an accident, not intention, you can type "np" or "forgive" in console or even on public chat and this TK isn't added to that guy's TK count. He has some minus points for this but it doesn't count as a teamkill.
In this way a notorious TKer gets kicked quickly because no one is forgiving him.
I was playing this game for about 2 years an it was working pretty good.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Fisume - 09-18-2010
Something similar is done in CounterStrike. After someone teamkilled you, the game asks you what you want to do with him (1 - Forgive; 2 - Slay; ...). In Xonotic, something like that could also work. After the 3rd time that someone didn't forgive the teamkill, the person gets kicked.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - theShadow - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 11:43 AM)Fisume Wrote: Something similar is done in CounterStrike. After someone teamkilled you, the game asks you what you want to do with him (1 - Forgive; 2 - Slay; ...). In Xonotic, something like that could also work. After the 3rd time that someone didn't forgive the teamkill, the person gets kicked.
that sounds like a good solution.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-18-2010
As if teamkillers cared about getting killed... One second later they're respawned and annoying teammates again.
And I'm pretty sure "slay" will be abused in case of accidental teamkill, seeing how rudely many players react against such accidents.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Fisume - 09-18-2010
(09-18-2010, 01:07 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: As if teamkillers cared about getting killed... One second later they're respawned and annoying teammates again.
And I'm pretty sure "slay" will be abused in case of accidental teamkill, seeing how rudely many players react against such accidents.
Oh, you misunderstood me. I didn't want the slay option in xonotic, I wanted to say that sth like that is possible in Counterstrike. I would only like the Options "forgive" and "don't forgive".
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-19-2010
Ah well... Still, I wonder how many players would take the time to think about the TK and forgive
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - kuniu the frogg - 09-19-2010
if it works in other games, why shouldn't it work here as well?
If the treshhold would be settled at, let's say, 5 TKs, i think it doesn't happen really often to make 5 TKs per game by an accident. And let's say only one for every two teamkilled players will forgive you, then you can make 10 TKs before kick from server. It's rather rare to make 10 accidental teamkills in one game, even on crowded minsta ctf servers.
And even if it will happen, it would be a clear message to that player to pay more attention, as teamkill, even accidental, should be punished in some way.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-19-2010
(09-19-2010, 04:01 AM)kuniu the frogg Wrote: if it works in other games, why shouldn't it work here as well?
It depends on the community. In nexuiz I've seen quite a few people freaking out because of accidental teamkills, so I wouldn't really trust the players' judgement in general. But I'm okay with giving it a try, of course.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - naryl - 09-19-2010
There's a problem. XSAX likes to laser people. With proposed system it's enough to switch target when it has low hp. Auto TK should somehow be based on damage, not kills.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-19-2010
naryl: did you think of false positives?
All: have you considered proper moderation of servers instead?
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Silica Gel: Do Not Eat - 09-19-2010
Maybe after so many TKs the server would start a vote to kick the user
Perhaps only the TKers team could vote on it
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - naryl - 09-19-2010
There is yet another simple solution. Just make the majority win the vote. Make vabstain the default instead of vno. And maybe let only the team the TKer is on vote.
Mr Bougo: I don't think somebody can *accidentally* do five times more damage to his team than to the enemy team.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - RoKenn - 09-20-2010
(09-19-2010, 09:01 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: All: have you considered proper moderation of servers instead?
+1
Especially you should note that trolls will always find a way to bypass technical measures against them.
When I kickbanned a troll today he was just having fun lasering his own flag carrier around. None of the systems discussed above would even be close to detecting this.
So, yes, a sufficient number of masters/rconners surely is a better way to get rid of trolls.
Maybe it would help to make vcalling easier (menu based, easy victim selection). Although the biggest problem with that is that people fail at voting anyway.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-21-2010
(09-19-2010, 05:57 PM)naryl Wrote: There is yet another simple solution. Just make the majority win the vote. Make vabstain the default instead of vno. And maybe let only the team the TKer is on vote.
Vote results were tested in the Nexuiz 2.5 days, conclusion was that simple majority eased abuse of the system :/
Gotta ask divVerent for more info, but the current system is the one that made the most sense.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - rainerzufalldererste - 09-21-2010
@narjl for each tk? or for each (pre)kick because of a tk?
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mirio - 09-21-2010
(09-21-2010, 10:40 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:(09-19-2010, 05:57 PM)naryl Wrote: There is yet another simple solution. Just make the majority win the vote. Make vabstain the default instead of vno. And maybe let only the team the TKer is on vote.
Vote results were tested in the Nexuiz 2.5 days, conclusion was that simple majority eased abuse of the system :/
Gotta ask divVerent for more info, but the current system is the one that made the most sense.
The current system in 2.5.2 is really bad. I made a topic some time ago ( here) .. vabstain should be really default. Or majority win, because almost every vote fails due non-voters. If you do NOT go to an election in real life your vote does not count anything. It should be like that IMO.
TK: Auto kick after X TKs would be sooo bad, but you also need enough admins watching the server from time to time to kick/ban people like xsax who only laser the own team.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-21-2010
Real life elections take a much larger sample, though. Here, there are much more situations where a single vote of difference matters.
What are the xonotic defaults for voting?
EDIT: by the way, vabstain is always the default, it's just to get rid of the nagging screen.
EDIT2: apparently a successful vote count was a 2/3 majority of players OR a 1/2 majority of voters.
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Contrarian - 09-26-2010
What's needed then, is a better system for voting.
First players need to be made aware that there is a vote, but not in a way where the distraction could interfere with their playing. The best time for this, as well as the best time for the player to actually enter their vote is obviously when he has died. Unfortunately most players have a very ingrained reflex to pound the button rapidly to respawn and will miss even a fullscreen message telling them to vote. On the rare occasions I've been aware of a vote, I still often miss the chance because I intend to do so during a break in the action, but when I die, I instinctively respawn immediately only to realize a second later I meant to take the chance to vote. So I say players who die should not be able to respawn until they vote. Also, votes should continue until everyone has died once and thus voted.
If you're worried people would abuse this to annoy you, don't worry I'm with you. But there are ways to protect against that. Instead of allowing players to call a vote directly, I think they should have to call FOR a vote, but voting doesn't start unless another player provides a '2nd'. If nobody 2nds, then the call for a vote times out. If there is a 2nd and the vote goes forward, then neither the player who called for the vote nor the player who 2nded it can call for, or 2nd any new votes for some time. That should be enough to prevent vote spamming.
btw: I consider TKs to be a valid form of expression.
also, in minsta: hooking fc and dragging him around. *giggle*
RE: Idea: auto-kick TKers - Mr. Bougo - 09-26-2010
(09-26-2010, 01:11 AM)Contrarian Wrote: Unfortunately most players have a very ingrained reflex to pound the button rapidly to respawn and will miss even a fullscreen message telling them to vote.Unfortunately, quite a few players manage not to die for more than N seconds.
(09-26-2010, 01:11 AM)Contrarian Wrote: I think they should have to call FOR a vote, but voting doesn't start unless another player provides a '2nd'. If nobody 2nds, then the call for a vote times out.Sweet, voting for votes! And how will players notice the vote for a vote? Maybe they should be nagged when they die, but then the vote for a vote should have a "2nd" as a vote for the vote for the vote.
Seriously though, proper audiovisual feedback on votes and that is all. And if you honestly think the voting system is flawed, give it some thought and if you still think so, create a dedicated thread. No problem, real or not, will be fixed easily if discussed off-topic in the wrong thread