[SUGGESTION] Obligatory weapon balance thread!!111!!1!oneone!

_SubZero_

In regards too laser push, this has been sorted out AGES ago. One of the main reasons it was decreased was because the movement in Xonotic is already very fast. Also, getting around CTF maps would be even easier/quicker then in nexuiz with Xonotic's movement. One of the main issues was in nexuiz CTF nearly all the time it was nex and machine gun only too take down a flag carrier in the air, and they can move so quickly. Now that it's less in Xonotic, it enables more teamplay for starters, you can't just laser away and cap in 7 seconds on a lot of maps, it means that there is more use of the other weapons, and it stops CTF being nearly completely aerial like in nexuiz. It's actually nice too see (on overkill server), a lot of players covering the flag carrier and following them back..mainly on the ground, rather then the flag carrier just flying through the air doing ridiculous speed caps..also note above weapons being used more. Secondly, actually doing laser jumps in DM maps, fit's the maps a lot better then in nexuiz, atleast the official maps, not so much overjumping platforms. I don't think we really need too go down this route again. Maybe fair point in regards too laser padding, but increasing laser force is just going too undo a lot of hard work already done and tested before hand for no good reason imo.

Secondly

"I would say kojn's missed (or rather omitted) one of my points and you missed/omitted another Smile
1) Nex/mortar, Nex/rl are strong in medium-to-large distance. If you close the distance and put some effort to unpredictable movements, you wont get much (if any) nex damage. In Nexuiz, nex combos are not frequent in face-to-face combat, even though nex is way stronger, does not have recharge and is easier to aim. So it is in fact a case of each weapon combination having its own use - one for close combat and other or distace fighting.
2) Combos are way more difficult than single weapon fighting. Why would you think they should not be more effective in certain situations than other weapons? Why should any weapon you happen to pick up be as good as any other weapon, or combo for that matter, under any combat situation there can be? Why the poor guy, fighting all these opponents for precious combo ingredients (say rl/nex) should be left with no benefits of finally managing to get them Rolleyes ? Why should poor bastard spending hours on mastering fast and precise weapon switches be left with noting Rolleyes? Or, on a serious note, why would you eliminate combos (that is what will happen if they are slow) and let the game become trivial amo spary?"

me and PCLizard are playing at probably the highest possible level at the moment that is possible in Xonotic and - "If you close the distance and put some effort to unpredictable movements, you wont get much (if any) nex damage"

Firstly, just go and try close the distance vs someone who is hitting a 50+% nexgun accuracy (aka PCLizard), and combo'ing from nex-RL/mortar with the machinegun for example, oh, and did I mention I have to do this vs him when he has 140 ping, and he is hitting 50%+ nexgun accuracy a lot of the time? I have very good movement, and it is very hard too close the distance down against someone as good as him, especially when he can fire a nexshot, and then swap too mortar/RL so quickly, then back too the nex.

You are missing the point completely. We are not saying too remove combinations, we are pointing out that the problem is with the top 3 weapons as asylum has pointed out doing like 80% of the combined damage in total, why do they do so much damage and used so much, because they are used in combinations nearly all the time, and as said before, you cannot compete vs these weapons regardless situationally the Majority of the time, when you have one of the other weapons. It's a response too not the weapons balance in themselves, which I have said, is very very good at the moment, but more then when a combination of the those 3 mains weapons are used, the 'balance' of the other weapons get's significantly nullified.

Yes, it takes skill to combo, but it also requires skill and ability too use a weapon in the correct situation..with fast combo potential, that ability becomes most of the time not necessary. Why would I worry about using the nexgun in a box room, when I can fire, and insta change too a RL, fire, and insta change back too the nexgun, it doesn't require me too think 'If I get caught out here, I am going too have too either stick with this weapon, or wait for a delay in weapon changing till I can swap too the mortar'.

And too round it all up, the issue is not about the WEAPONS, it is about people saying the weapons are underpowered as they are not used a lot, which is not true. They are not used much, because as said before and this is the main point, the nex/RL/mortar potential combo is nullyfying the effectiveness of the other weapons a LOT of the time (not all the time), but more so then it probably should be doing.

All I stated was, a possible solution could be too increase the weapon delay time. POSSIBLE SOLUTION. And as said before in the other thread, this 'issue' will still be there until a solution is made up, otherwise, players can keep saying how weapon X/Y/Z is underpowered, when in reality it actually isn't.

I'm not actually that fussed whether or not it get's changed, It's just false economy though so say all the other weapons are not useful or underpowered etc because they are only accounting for like 10-20% of overall damage output. If this however is an issue for so many other players, then some kind of improvement needs too be made, which is why I said before 'are you prepared too compromise?'

I actually think the overkill mod is great, and has just the right amount of weapon switch delay and actually makes me think to myself when should I change too X weapon?, maybe tZork will be so kind too tell us in this thread what it it set too?