@tZork
I feel that mental example I brought got derailed by nex. It was about a map that gets heavy laser use, not about craping nex. If anyone ever try to port this map to xonotic he may well leave it with rl and no nex. As I said it will get even better. And facing_words also doesn't have any issue with nex, as it is precisely about dodging nex campers - its just a different gameplay in this map.
@rafallus
Note that I argue for providing specific use cases rather than sticking to this murky "balanced", by which everyone understand something different. The use case for electro secondary was specifically for CTF and it was about denying area for opponents chasing FC. For that the secondary must in fact deny an area, rather than be ignored by the pursuit (read, needs strength). I understand that aerial combo is difficult and I can agree for it being stronger, why not - it would just be more productive disscussion if accompanied by a more or less typical use cases (in-game situation) when this proposition could in fact be used.
@"played to the fullest" - those maps we talked here (gasoline/evil/mental) were made with laser pad-jumps in mind. They wont be played to their fullest on erratic laser pad-jumps.
@kojn^
I see no reason why laser shout now be written in stone, when so many aspects of the game are discussed. As Mirio pointed out, several versions behind there were talks of leaving things as they were, and few versions from then the game is way different.
I strongly disagree with you on laser. And are pleased to see at least one supporter in this thread
There are maps out there that are not aerial (some heavily played from Laid Back - medival/symdusty/lazydusty), semi aerial maps ((xo)soylent/ctftoxic/skycastle) and also aerial maps. I dont belive xonotic will benefit from striving to avoid aerial fight - its better to have maps for all these sorts of gameplay.
And the best way for newbies is to stick to begginer servers - otherwise they will get knocked, aerial or not.
Regarding combos. You bring up an example of a player that have 50% nex hit-rate at 140 ping. Why should a player of this level fighting with combos loose against one wapon fighter? If that is the case then combos are useless - why would anyone bother with combo if it has little benefit even when used by a top notch player, that manages 50% nex hit rate at large ping? You argue that "it also requires skill and ability too use a weapon in the correct situation" - I say its nowhere near the kind of "skill and ability" one needs for a high nex hit rate interleaved by guided rocket shoots. You propsed to slow combos down - I belive this amounts to removing em from game, because the whole point of combo is to increase damage rate. It would lead to an amo-spray gameplay. And all this just to "balance" wapons so that each one get roughy equal use time? I dont see a point in that. In fact I dont see anything wrong in there being few main weapons, used in various combination, and several "specialty" weapons used in specific circumstances.
I feel that mental example I brought got derailed by nex. It was about a map that gets heavy laser use, not about craping nex. If anyone ever try to port this map to xonotic he may well leave it with rl and no nex. As I said it will get even better. And facing_words also doesn't have any issue with nex, as it is precisely about dodging nex campers - its just a different gameplay in this map.
@rafallus
Note that I argue for providing specific use cases rather than sticking to this murky "balanced", by which everyone understand something different. The use case for electro secondary was specifically for CTF and it was about denying area for opponents chasing FC. For that the secondary must in fact deny an area, rather than be ignored by the pursuit (read, needs strength). I understand that aerial combo is difficult and I can agree for it being stronger, why not - it would just be more productive disscussion if accompanied by a more or less typical use cases (in-game situation) when this proposition could in fact be used.
@"played to the fullest" - those maps we talked here (gasoline/evil/mental) were made with laser pad-jumps in mind. They wont be played to their fullest on erratic laser pad-jumps.
@kojn^
I see no reason why laser shout now be written in stone, when so many aspects of the game are discussed. As Mirio pointed out, several versions behind there were talks of leaving things as they were, and few versions from then the game is way different.
I strongly disagree with you on laser. And are pleased to see at least one supporter in this thread
There are maps out there that are not aerial (some heavily played from Laid Back - medival/symdusty/lazydusty), semi aerial maps ((xo)soylent/ctftoxic/skycastle) and also aerial maps. I dont belive xonotic will benefit from striving to avoid aerial fight - its better to have maps for all these sorts of gameplay.And the best way for newbies is to stick to begginer servers - otherwise they will get knocked, aerial or not.
Regarding combos. You bring up an example of a player that have 50% nex hit-rate at 140 ping. Why should a player of this level fighting with combos loose against one wapon fighter? If that is the case then combos are useless - why would anyone bother with combo if it has little benefit even when used by a top notch player, that manages 50% nex hit rate at large ping? You argue that "it also requires skill and ability too use a weapon in the correct situation" - I say its nowhere near the kind of "skill and ability" one needs for a high nex hit rate interleaved by guided rocket shoots. You propsed to slow combos down - I belive this amounts to removing em from game, because the whole point of combo is to increase damage rate. It would lead to an amo-spray gameplay. And all this just to "balance" wapons so that each one get roughy equal use time? I dont see a point in that. In fact I dont see anything wrong in there being few main weapons, used in various combination, and several "specialty" weapons used in specific circumstances.