[SUGGESTION] Re-writing of CTF game code (want new ideas)

Whats so bad if you get 1 point if you pickup the flag?

I understand how it feels to see some fast attacker pick up your flag, laser jump and run away. I know it's hard to see him leave, knowing you can't catch him up, and that he's going to score. I've been a noob too.

I can be mistaken, i don't read the forums much, but in this thread it seems that some reaction to that is like "Damn i hate the crazy pick uppers and their insane laser jumping! How could we change the game to prevent them from doing that?!"
And now what, three seconds pick up delay?

Here's my suggestion : the next time that crazy attacker picks up your flag and insanely laser jumps to run away, instead of thinking of ways to nerf his arsenal (which is also yours), try to follow him. It won't work the first time, but if you keep insisting, you will get closer. If what he's doing really seems black magic to you, spectate him for a while. Ask for advice too, we have a very nice community and a lot of skilled players are ready to help, anytime.

Train, noob. It worked for me.

*sigh*

keep playing your random game :p

I'd like to see the addition of a one sided, one flag, round based CTF gametype. Basically, teams alternate attacking/defending for 4 rounds. Scoring: 1 point for capping on offence, 1 point for successfully defending for the whole round. Rounds could be around 5 minutes long, but thats just a suggestion.

Edit: This gametype would also require asymmetrical maps that have defined attack/defend sides.

"Damn i hate the crazy pick uppers and their insane laser jumping! How could we change the game to prevent them from doing that?!"

Yes, how could we change the game so that it's not ALL ABOUT doing this. What happened to the laser being a special tool, as opposed to being a requirement all the time?

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And now what, three seconds pick up delay?

As was discussed on IRC, picking up the flag in the base would not have any delay, but picking up or returning a dropped flag would have some delay. This would e.g. prevent you from taking out a well protected (by its teammates) FC, then rocketjumping in and hitting the flag to return it in front of the noses of these teammates.

Count me against the delay for flag pickup/return. I won't comment on how it might work out in competitive play as I have no experience there but in a pub server setting, its truly a horrible idea. It is its hard enough to convince newer players to move beyond playing purely defensively and telling them that they need to stand on the flag in the middle of a bunch of enemies for 3 seconds to grab it will guarantee they simply don't try. As Antibody mentioned, with no respawn delay you would simply be overwhelmed by a constant flood of enemy players respawning on top of you with shotguns, you can argue that its a problem with the map design but thats simply the way it work outs. However adding a respawn delay isn't an acceptable solution either, slowing down the flow of the game or making players watch as the FC takes off to cap while you sit dead unable to help would just frustrate players in the end.

As far as the waypoint idea for the enemy FC, its actually an idea I brought up to Samual yesterday in IRC. Tossing a waypoint on the enemy FC immediately I would have to disagree with as finding out which path the FC is taking and catching up to him is part of the fun/challenge to properly defending. I had suggested only tossing up the waypoint on the FC after 4-5 minutes to assist in ending a long stand off in pub games however as a compromise with Samuals idea, maybe only put the waypoint on the FC after a team mate spots him and only for a 30 second period or so.

Here's my suggestion : the next time that crazy attacker picks up your flag and insanely laser jumps to run away, instead of thinking of ways to nerf his arsenal (which is also yours), try to follow him. It won't work the first time, but if you keep insisting, you will get closer. If what he's doing really seems black magic to you, spectate him for a while. Ask for advice too, we have a very nice community and a lot of skilled players are ready to help, anytime.

Thank you sir, that was some very useful advice.

hai im new here
how do i shot web?

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I'd like to see the addition of a one sided, one flag, round based CTF gametype. Basically, teams alternate attacking/defending for 4 rounds. Scoring: 1 point for capping on offence, 1 point for successfully defending for the whole round. Rounds could be around 5 minutes long, but thats just a suggestion.

Edit: This gametype would also require asymmetrical maps that have defined attack/defend sides.

Could be epic.

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stand on the flag

*near the flag

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I had suggested only tossing up the waypoint on the FC after 4-5 minutes to assist in ending a long stand off in pub games however as a compromise with Samuals idea, maybe only put the waypoint on the FC after a team mate spots him and only for a 30 second period or so.

*only* 30 seconds? A capture will have taken place by then if there's no cross cap

I still support showing the waypoint at all times, or at least some form of compass thing on the radar.

*only* 30 seconds? A capture will have taken place by then if there's no cross cap

I still support showing the waypoint at all times, or at least some form of compass thing on the radar.

The point being that the waypoint isn't needed right away, if you can't find the FC and chase him down, thats on you.

I'd like to see the addition of a one sided, one flag, round based CTF gametype. Basically, teams alternate attacking/defending for 4 rounds. Scoring: 1 point for capping on offence, 1 point for successfully defending for the whole round. Rounds could be around 5 minutes long, but thats just a suggestion.

Edit: This gametype would also require asymmetrical maps that have defined attack/defend sides.

This is what we call: assault.

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Almost then.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you as well FruitieX, I don't like the idea of pickup/return delays.

What happened to the laser being a special tool, as opposed to being a requirement all the time?

The laser used to be the tool you used all the time to get any speed. It was essential to use in in Nexuiz ctf. Now it is pretty much only good at getting vertical push. But I think this is spilling over into weapon balance and away from ctf coding.

The enemy FC waypoint could be invisible at all times, and do an alpha fade in when the enemy FC stops moving. Then it would fade out if he started moving again (could we use the LMS anti-camp for this?).
...

Promised screenshots:
Low quality minsta:


Porto:


Low quality laser:


Regular laser (this one was actually my favorite):

This is what we call: assault.

Not really... assault is all about destroying objectives on large maps. My CTF suggestion is much different.

Maybe disallow picking up or returning the *dropped* flag if there is an enemy less than two meters away?

Flag pickup delays could be tricky in case the flag gets dropped really near some jumppad or in deep slime/lava. There you could at least suicide-return it before in order to allow your fc to cap. Otherwise I like the delay idea.

"Damn i hate the crazy pick uppers and their insane laser jumping! How could we change the game to prevent them from doing that?!"

Yes, how could we change the game so that it's not ALL ABOUT doing this. What happened to the laser being a special tool, as opposed to being a requirement all the time?

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Here's an idea: Let's NOT change it. That right there is what has always made this type of CTF more fun that than what I can get out of Unreal Tournament, Quake, Urban Terror, Halo, etc. You don't see that happen elsewhere. Chasing down the flag carriers is one of the things that's always made Nexuiz and hopefully Xonotic appealing to me.

"Damn i hate the crazy pick uppers and their insane laser jumping! How could we change the game to prevent them from doing that?!"

Yes, how could we change the game so that it's not ALL ABOUT doing this. What happened to the laser being a special tool, as opposed to being a requirement all the time?

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Here's an idea: Let's NOT change it. That right there is what has always made this type of CTF more fun that than what I can get out of Unreal Tournament, Quake, Urban Terror, Halo, etc. You don't see that happen elsewhere. Chasing down the flag carriers is one of the things that's always made Nexuiz and hopefully Xonotic appealing to me.

I fully endorse the above statement. Lasering around in ctf was always great fun. I always feel that I miss the laser the way it was. Always remember the crazy fast furious laser chases that would ensue between good defenders/attackers.

Sorry, too short on time to read if anyone else proposed this, and I'm also sorry if you never played valve games:
The flag could require not being picked up for something like 10 seconds, in order to return to base, like the intelligence in Team Fortress 2. I don't know if it's really a good idea for a fast-paced shooter, but it would be an option, if implemented.
Another idea: player must stand near flag long enough for it to return to base

@ nowego4:
You mean, like this? ;-)


I can maybe code a fading effect for this, but not sure. we'll see.

As for everyone else... I'm going to code the pickup/return delay system and just disable it by default. Stop getting carried away about the discussion of balance in CTF as well - this is merely a suggestions thread, arguing like ^so^ is not welcome here. KEEP IT CLEAN OR GTFO.


Also: slash: It really wouldn't be easy to do a system like that, assault really already does cover this. You're basically talking about round based CTF where the teams swap sides? It really can't work that well honestly... sorry. (It's just not worth the effort++)


Finally there's one other feature I wanted to talk about which I was considering adding - Basically, right now there tend to be stalemates where both teams have eachothers flag for several minutes+. I want to solve this and speed up the pace of the game somehow, and the method i've been thinking about is using a waypointsprite on the enemy flag carrier. Now.. BEFORE YOU JUMP AHEAD AND GO ALL "SLKDFJLSKDJF HELL NO!" -- hear me out. Basically, it would only be spawned when a team mate hits the enemy flag carrier. This means that it PROVES that your team mate can SEE the flag carrier. And that information is then conveyed to your team mates... Of course, the waypointsprite would only last for a few seconds (1..2.. maybe) and would just fade away quickly, BUT it would easily help the pace of the game, and it would make it difficult to just hide with the flag forever. (Note: Credit goes to Mirio for coming up with a good way to justify using a waypointsprite)

Also: slash: It really wouldn't be easy to do a system like that, assault really already does cover this. You're basically talking about round based CTF where the teams swap sides? It really can't work that well honestly... sorry. (It's just not worth the effort++)

Kidding

Yes that looks decent Samual. You have the right idea now, GL

You're idea about the waypointsprite on the FC when shot is actually not to bad. It would be like if everybody knew how to use the "I see the flag" bind. The only thing bad I might possibly see coming out of this would be even MORE camping and hiding (because when they're not people will almost always be able to trigger the sprite from any range). Hence why I still support the anti camping system. But there's a good chance that it will work too.

Yes that looks decent Samual. You have the right idea now, GL

You're idea about the waypointsprite on the FC when shot is actually not to bad. It would be like if everybody knew how to use the "I see the flag" bind. The only thing bad I might possibly see coming out of this would be even MORE camping and hiding (because when they're not people will almost always be able to trigger the sprite from any range). Hence why I still support the anti camping system. But there's a good chance that it will work too.

MY idea! Anyway, why would you hide more? Nowadays you don't walk around that you get hit easily from everywhere too or not? The Anti-camping system is stupid, because you won't be able to chat without getting hurt (/death).

I know I already told Samual my idea in IRC but he wanted me to post it here originally. My idea was that the flag carrier's name be displayed to everyone on the team adjacent to the flag icon. Another small idea I came up with to supplement that was to also display their current health/armor above or underneath their name. Granted, I think the HUD for this should be relatively small, but large enough where you're not squinting. I never did like the vague "Flag carrier health bar" that we have in Nexuiz.

MY idea! Anyway, why would you hide more? Nowadays you don't walk around that you get hit easily from everywhere too or not? The Anti-camping system is stupid, because you won't be able to chat without getting hurt (/death).

Yes ok your idea but what I meant by anti-camp system was to show the enemy FC icon when he sits to long. It wouldn't hurt him, just give him away. It would go away after he was moving for awhile.

@PanzerZero: How about the exact health score being displayed over his head? It was brought up once that we could put something like this on ALL teammates. Also the info panel tells who takes/returns the flags, but that usually gets buried pretty quick under all the TDMing going on

If you look at teammates long enough it shows the name and the health. As least it did so some time ago in Nexuiz, don't know about today. But please not such a big waypoint like for FC for everyone.

@nowego4
Well, I don't think it would be a practical idea to have the health of 'everyone' displayed, because it would be somewhat distracting to you as a player with all the number clutter. At least for a public server CTF. For smaller 3v3's this would be a good idea. I know that the panel tells you who takes the flag/drops flag, etc but you're right it disappears pretty fast. My idea would keep that information visible to you.

Flag pickup delays could be tricky in case the flag gets dropped really near some jumppad or in deep slime/lava. There you could at least suicide-return it before in order to allow your fc to cap. Otherwise I like the delay idea.

If on a jumppad the flag should be affected by it and as such thrown in the air, if in lava the flag should IMO be set to return automatically after only a few seconds (this is perhaps up to the mapper though)

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Sorry, too short on time to read if anyone else proposed this, and I'm also sorry if you never played valve games:
The flag could require not being picked up for something like 10 seconds, in order to return to base, like the intelligence in Team Fortress 2. I don't know if it's really a good idea for a fast-paced shooter, but it would be an option, if implemented.
Another idea: player must stand near flag long enough for it to return to base

Or a mix of both: there's always a maximum time the flag will automatically return in, the more players stand near the flag the faster this process gets.

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It would be like if everybody knew how to use the "I see the flag" bind.

Indeed, or like everyone would be using voice chat. This should be very good for teamplay

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I know I already told Samual my idea in IRC but he wanted me to post it here originally. My idea was that the flag carrier's name be displayed to everyone on the team adjacent to the flag icon. Another small idea I came up with to supplement that was to also display their current health/armor above or underneath their name. Granted, I think the HUD for this should be relatively small, but large enough where you're not squinting. I never did like the vague "Flag carrier health bar" that we have in Nexuiz.

Excellent idea! I totally support this

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@PanzerZero: How about the exact health score being displayed over his head? It was brought up once that we could put something like this on ALL teammates.

Do want! The system we currently have with centerprints is AWFUL and only gets in the way (hides other centerprints even though it is specially coded so that it should not do so). You should be able to see your teammate's health and armor in form of two icons that fill up their respective shadow backdrop, as well as the player name the instant you point at them, not after struggling to aim precisely at them for 2 seconds to reveal their name

That's a bit off topic, but hey this is the Xonotic forums this is how we roll

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If you look at teammates long enough it shows the name and the health. As least it did so some time ago in Nexuiz, don't know about today. But please not such a big waypoint like for FC for everyone.

Indeed, don't show them all the time. Only for the FC and the player you point at RIGHT AT THIS FRAME

ps. Signature proves to be true again: