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Poll: Timelimit?
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Xonotic Duel Tourney

#26
Mepper, some advice.

Every duel match is never the same. The best way to play is as fisume said, keep playing and you will adapt your own style of play. However, to get better, you need to learn to adapt to your opponent in every game, this means when you are out of control and in-control. You should try and learn what to do when you cannot get a item, for example if you have no armours or megahealth's you should learn to wear your opponent down, pick up on patterns (if any) and slowly wear them down. Or you may not want to do that at all if you have your own way and it works, but you should play more defensively when out of control, and more offensively when in control, however there is no black & white line, again it all comes down to adapation. You need to have an edge in games to win against someone of equal skill vs you, sometimes game's won't go your way.

I can't really comment on how I play so much because I haven't really been 'active' by my own standards in duelling for about 3 years now, however when I was playing virtually every day vs players like dIM, Cuizi, morfar, bundy etc, the reason I was able to dominate was being aggressive when I needed to be, combined with good aim.

Learning to exploit your opponents weaknesses whilst lessering your own will make you a better dueler. Everyone has there 'bogey' player who they just have trouble with in general.

Learn to play on your opponents maps, rather then your own favourites always, you'll improve a lot that way also.

It goes so much deeper then this, but this will get you started.

Learning to time items is paramount, grabbing every item isn't.

A video I made vs PCL, explaining somethings -> http://www.own3d.tv/watch/30222

As you get better, you need to start to think more, your moves shouldn't be random but rather you are doing something based on your opponent's actions/your situation.
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#27
Mepper: just to quote Fis: clearly, watching solid player demo is a key apsect.
Ask kojn. He's not avarious for good demos.
What it helps even more imo is to watch yourself fighting, by asking your opponent to provide his demo. I did save months of practice like this. You'll see how/why you are predictible/vulnerable, especially through some pro's eyes.

One other crucial aspect to me: play pros AND equivalent skilled players. Otherwise, you will probably give duels up. You'll see that (probably more than with any other gamemode) when you play a pro, you only react. Rarely act. And the latter aspect is one of the most satisfying aspect of duels.

Btw, if you start duelling for the tourney, be prepared to get hard times Smile. gl&hf.
Fat.bot.Slim
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#28
Thanks to the flexible duel match times I might participate in this tourney, too. Don't expect me to play competetively, though, so if you give me a "nice one" during gameplay I might very well fall off a map while typing "thank you".
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#29
I will surely host an American branch of this for all of those American players willing to join in (e.g. PCLizard, nowego, snapz, liolak, CruelNoise, etc etc etc)

Edit: Oh yeah, and i'm competing too.
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#30
I started practicing with Debugger Big Grin

Dueling, analizing maps, where everything is etc. Just practicing indeed helps Smile

BTW, under what nick do you play, Samual? I don't see Samual or Ares in the list.
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#31
I guess he still needs to sign-in. Smile Just like Halogene and Rage_ATWM (? Tongue).

Edit: Looks like it's going to be 10 minutes timelimit (7 vs. 1 atm). Also we put Red into the mappool, which you can choose in the Brackets.
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#32
I found some nice duels from Amega's Pov and Scorpion, with commentary by themselves. They really help me understand how to duel, and what to do Smile

P.S. Halogene, make a keybind with "Thank you!" . I also find my binds with "Yeah!" and "Big Grin" very usefull.
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#33
I tried to register at the site but it doesn't send me a confirmation email :o/

@Mepper: o.O a BIND? For "Thank You"? Hmmm never thought of that... maybe I should really do that. I really have never thought of that. RLY. No kidding.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#34
(09-26-2011, 11:05 AM)Mirio Wrote: I guess he still needs to sign-in. Smile Just like Halogene and Rage_ATWM (? Tongue).
I'm not even sure to find 10 free mn in a row over the 6 next months.
2017 should be more open.
And I let Mepper the honor to be the winner of the losers Wink
Fat.bot.Slim
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#35
(09-26-2011, 02:49 PM)Rage_ATWM Wrote: And I let Mepper the honor to be the winner of the losers Wink

Thank you! I'll do my best. Of course I will try to win the whole tournament, but I don't think that is realistic Tongue

But I am happy that no DMs player signed up yet, it mustn't get too hard Wink
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#36
Hehe, we should practice together by playing some duels Mepper. I´m not the best player too (especially with that horrible ping) so we could both learn a lot from each other.
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#37
Justin, kojn and [CCC]KINGSHOT[CCC] voted in the poll but did not sign in? Pfffft! Tongue
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#38
I am awaiting for you to confirm the map-list for starters and hopefully condense it and remove some of the sillyness Wink

Also, you are going to remove spawn protection? shootfromeye - on etc?

All these questions have been asked so far, but no response so far from the tournament directors Smile
So I just wait until I see some more things then decide whether or not I want to play Smile
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#39
If you remove Xoylent from the maplist, I'll be very very sad Sad just because SOME people don't like it doesn't make it a bad duel map, I have had the most epic duels on that very map. That you can force push people off the map is NOT a bug, it's a feature - the really by far best duel game I had on that map was with Grunt and we fought so hard for control on that map that control switched about 7 times or so during the game and he won by one point in the end (I still have the demo I think, it really was a great game.)

To me, this is much more fun than gaining control in the first 30 seconds of the game and then being able to hold it for the entire game. Honestly.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#40
(09-30-2011, 06:42 AM)kojn^ Wrote: Also, you are going to remove spawn protection? shootfromeye - on etc?

I don't know if g_shootfromeye is voteable right but it won't be default. You should be able to vote for it if you opponent agrees on that. Spawn protection is on at the moment I think, but thats all stuff where I have to talk with Unknown and I do that at once soon and won't annoy him about every little piece.

So far Atelier got removed and Atomforge + Red added. It's not final yet thats why I did not announce it. But the changes are already at the page. Probably Runningman will be removed soon.
Xoylent stays anyway, because a lot of people like Xoylent/Farewell.
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#41
What about heavy_metal? I changed the item placement so that it should be playable for duels now.
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#42
I think you also could remove afterslime, not because I like it. But it's way too big, it just is no 1on1 map.
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#43
Afterslime
"Atomforge
Downer_final
Final Rage
Red
Ruined
Slimepit
Stormkeep
Warfare_itemfix
Xoylent"

Remove warfare, remove afterslime. Map-pool done. Remove Xoylent (Never going to happen though because it's too preeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy even though it's a space-map right?? obv.).

Smile
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#44
Noooooo!!!!!!

DO NOT REMOVE WARFARE, PLEASE!!!!

I already don't really make a chance to win. And then you want to remove warfare. While I always get an accuracy of about 40-50 percent with my nex there! I don't know why, but I just nex good there, so please don't remove it!
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#45
Hi there, Im new to this game, I was just given link to it yesterday, but decided to sign up for tournament. I could be called an UT player, but I have played many games including Quakes and Warsow. Despite being new or maybe because of that (call it fresh look?) I would like to share my initial thought regarding the maps Ive tried.

Warfare - this one actualy seems right, except for the 3 armours. Instead of changing them to A50, just remove the one from below elevator. There is just no point of having yet another armour there. I also think that the remaining 2 may be a bit too close to each other, and actualy switching one of them with Megahealth would be the best idea. For a player without control an armour will be more useful, especialy that there are 2 25HP down in the middle room (which makes even less sense for Mega to be where it is now). That should result in out of control player trying to challange from below the controling player who tries to pick up item placed on the very top of the map.

Afterslime - the basic design is interesting, but not necessarly for duel. I think that while it is big, keeping map under control may be a bit too easy, but I would like to try and play it seriously.

Atomforge - because of those corridors fights could be too flat, and flat means boring.

Runningman - thats no duel map

Downer - this map simply lack a sense of being in control

Xoylent - again I like the design, all those interconnections should result in interesing fights, but this map seems to be just a bit too small.

Ruined - seems very generic and boring, spacy rooms connected with corridors are passe, and one top platform isnt enough to change it. You can play it, but thats it.

Stormkeep - the most suitable one for duel, and the best of them all as far as I can tell. Most of the issues I could raise, would point more towards the game design itself instead of the map. I also think that it can show how Xonotic is different than other games (how weapons and items force you to play it).

So for me it would be Stormkeep, Warfare after mentioned changes, and maybe Afterslime or Xoylent.
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#46
Welcome to Xonotic Chatiel ^_^ Nice to see a new player interested in competitive aspects of Xonotic.

But anyway, onto discussion of maplist and other things about the tourney...:

Maps to definitely add:
  • Azalea - WHY HAS NO ONE SAID THIS YET? This is an amazing duel map, perhaps the best one so far made directly for Xonotic.
  • Darkzone - This is a very solid duel map as well, I would be extremely disappointed to not see it in the tourney.
  • Downer - Chatiel is wrong here in my opinion, this map is very well balanced - the very fact that it is scarce on health/armor makes it fantastic for map control.
  • Ruined - Another Xonotic original duel map, the styling is not so great in some parts but the map control is pretty decent and fun.
  • Stormkeep - Although slightly larger than the others, this one is quite key with dueling in Xonotic.. it has some aspects to it which make it very much so a good choice for a tourney. (Though, honestly, a 10 minute duel may not be enough here...)

Maps to consider adding:
  • Bloodrun - A Q1 map remade by nifrek which has extremely good design.
  • Warfare - I'm okay with this map being in, though I've never really played it much.
  • Heavy_Metal - Perhaps a bit too large, and unfinished weapon balancing.. but could deserve a chance.
  • Xoylent - Really i'd like to avoid the overplayed maps, but i'm okay with it I suppose.
  • Final_Rage - Same story as xoylent
  • Atomforge - It's very early in design, plus lacking any good weapons balancing... But it definitely deserves a chance
  • Red - It has decent balancing for duels, plus the flow is just right for it, so i'm okay with this.
  • Runningman - This one is debatable.. it is quite large, but it can have decent map control. Honestly though, I mostly agree with Chatiel here.. it's not so much of a duel map in my personal opinion.

Maps which totally should not get in:
  • Atelier - This is in no way a duel map, it's too large plus just lacks the proper flow of a duel map.
  • Afterslime - Same story as Atelier.

Also, I have never played Slimepit that i'm aware of... so can't say about those...

Anyway, I think we should really focus less on older and "well-played" Nexuiz maps (like xoylent, warfare and final_rage) and more on the newer maps specifically for Xonotic. We have quite a few great duel maps made right now, and really it is a shame if we don't use them.

Regarding shootfromeye... Absolutely not, this is completely unnecessary and doesn't add any good gameplay tactics... Instead of doing this, learn how to shoot around corners without failing Tongue Either way, the rules should be essentially almost exactly the same as pure settings... I would allow an exception to this for spawnshield however, but personally I don't care for this one and it doesn't affect the gameplay very much.

BTW another thing, i'm doing quite major balance updates right now.. lots and lots of them. I assume the branch will be merged some time within the next 4-5 days or so, and i'm hoping all the other server owners can update to this please?
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#47
Samual Wrote:Heavy_Metal - Perhaps a bit too large, and unfinished weapon balancing
I already updated the item-placement, drastically! But it seems like nobody knows... maybe check out the map-related-thread? And if you have specific suggestions, tell us!
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#48
I just finished trying to play serious duel on Afterslime, and yes, I agree its way too big. I thought it could be ok due to movement speed and laser jumps, but after all you can just run around for like 2 minutes and dont even get a glimpse of opponent.

I will give a go Downer next time, Im mostly considered if it allows for some running out of control, instead just a jump and gun action after respawn.
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#49
just in case, our suggestion about changing item placement on warfare (based on version avaliable on autobuild server (also with fixed elevator))
http://ompldr.org/vYWxnbA/warfare_itemfix.pk3

basically what we did was removing one MA (from that corner near RL) and replacing MA near elevator with 50A, so there's now only one MA over the RL.
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#50
(10-01-2011, 03:27 PM)Maddin Wrote:
Samual Wrote:Heavy_Metal - Perhaps a bit too large, and unfinished weapon balancing
I already updated the item-placement, drastically! But it seems like nobody knows... maybe check out the map-related-thread? And if you have specific suggestions, tell us!

My apologies, I haven't seen the update on the thread yet -- I'll update my server ASAP ^_^

It's hard to keep track of the forums all the time, sorry.
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