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Poll: How do you think bone-based damage should be added to Xonotic?
This poll is closed.
In the damage code and enabled by default (replace the current damage system)
35.71%
10 35.71%
In the damage code but disabled by default
3.57%
1 3.57%
As a mutator (disabled by default)
28.57%
8 28.57%
Don't even bother coding this, the idea is too bad
32.14%
9 32.14%
Total 28 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Bone based damage system (feature vote and debate)

#26
There is really not much time for aiming in Xonotic, especially with weapon switching. Aiming is to a large extent instinct based and that's where Xonotic get's so fast peaced. So complex damage calculator really is better put into mutator. Otherwise expect additional cvars and number crunching in the near future just to revert this new code into something that feels the old way.

On a side note. Weapon system is already crazy complex in this game. More complex than in Nexuiz. Should it really get (in the default settings) one more layer, mainly because other games with other weapons happen to have it? There are other avenues for making the gameplay more fun - for example, tiny tweak to the laser shoot delay (not force) reintroduce laser-pad-jumping and lateral laser jumps. Simple tweak, but can add a lot of fun to the game without turning things upside down.
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#27
I prefer to code this into the damage code (not mutator) but it will be cvared, and the old system easy to revert to. Until people are comfortable with it (if they will be) it doesn't need to get enabled. It won't affect the weapon system either, since it calculates any damage at all.
<spackObot> Congratulations to Samual and Taoki, your lovescore is 98.463%!
Samual (~dioteckte@...) quit #xonotic.pickup (gonna kill myself now)
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#28
But then any server with this system disabled will be unpure. Which in practice mean those servers that already are unpure - say XPM - will likely depart even more from the mainstream. Whereas those servers that prefer to be pure will stream here loads of players with ideas on how to get the old feeling back.
And yes, it does affect the weapon system as it redefines what many balance numbers mean in practice. These numbers were made for the current damage calculator and will change in an convoluted way with the new calculator (e.g. splash vs. hit-scan).
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#29
Another thing to consider is that it would greatly affect damage through the floor, since it is not possible to hit anything else than the bottom of the bounding box with that. If your "shielding" idea gets implemented, it would hurt this element of strategy that I'm sure some people think is quite interesting to have.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#30
(05-15-2012, 06:27 AM)MirceaKitsune Wrote:
(05-14-2012, 06:41 PM)W4RP1G Wrote: Dude, watch Nifrek in a 1v1, he's the fastest player I've seen. He's flying around the maps at full speed half the time like a ctf player, and I'm talking about the smallest maps in the game. But even if Nifrek's speeds were unattainable to most players, any experienced 1v1 player will move very fast because they know how and because they know the maps. This game is extremely fast paced, even in small maps.

It depends on how open those maps are, and the walls they have as well as obstacles. Evilspace is small too, but you might get fast there because it's open. Basement on the other hand... difficult.

But that might be possible if you're a very experienced player. This does not apply to everyone, and I haven't even tried getting fast on those maps (except sometimes when no one's around and all I do is roam). On Red Planet for instance, I get a bit fast when bunny-hop roaming, but not too much. Then whenever I run into someone and there's a battle, I have to stop or slow down, otherwise (at best) I leave the area before I get to frag. So maybe this is only the case for a few players that learned how, but certainly not the majority.

Well for starters, the 2 most popular game modes in Xonotic seem to be CTF and 1v1. Both of those modes require finesse.

Also, I'm not talking about open maps, I'm talking about maps like hub, drain, stormkeep, final-rage, and so on. You can get very fast in those maps with a bit of practice. ANYONE can attain high speeds with practice.
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#31
I really care only about the headshots giving extra damage. If that gets implemented as 'shoot the top 10% of the bounding box' or as a more complex bone based damage is not that important to me. A feature like this has been common in fps'es since at least UT99 days and everybody expects it.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#32
And headshots we already have.
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#33
Really? The jokes on me then.

* Cyber Killer hides in shame :-P
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#34
It only applies to the rifle and optionally to the MG, though
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#35
Ah, so that's why I wasn't aware of this.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#36
MG has headshots too?
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#37
Yes, but they don't do more damage than body shots by default. See g_balance_uzi_first_headshotaddeddamage and g_balance_uzi_sustained_headshotaddeddamage.
[Image:http://i.imgur.com/4XODR.png]640K ought to be enough for anybody.
     ― Linux Torvalds
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#38
Nex headshots might break the game. The nex is already extremely powerful, adding more power would make the nex dominate and people could just control the nex to win(in a 1v1). That would essentially be giving those with better aim even more power. Obviously good aim is important, but if the game is too aim heavy I might as well just play Counterstrike so I can have a fair chance.

And headshots for splash weapons would make no sense at all, it would just create more randomness.
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#39
I also think that nex is way powerful, but maybe if it would do it's current damage on the headshot, and less damage on the rest of the body... ;-) (then it wouldn't feel so much of an abuse by the ppl with uber aim)
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#40
(05-16-2012, 12:41 PM)Cyber Killer Wrote: I also think that nex is way powerful, but maybe if it would do it's current damage on the headshot, and less damage on the rest of the body... ;-) (then it wouldn't feel so much of an abuse by the ppl with uber aim)
Then it would only be effective for people with uber aim. You'd be punishing the people with average aim more than anything. It would be like the rifle, which is only useful if you get headshots.
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#41
I know the camping rifle has headshot support, but it's the only weapon (someone here mentioned the UZI, I didn't know about it). A great aim of my idea way adding headshot support for all guns. But if that's done, it would feel sad not to do it for limbs too, so I end up at the same idea Tongue

Anyway, both divVerent and Samual said they only want this as a mutator. I'll do it as one for now, but after it's been around for a bit I might suggest including it in the main code and defaulting it. As a mutator people can test it, and specify if they'd like this after trying it out in practice (and seeing if it changes balance in a way that affects any category of players badly).
<spackObot> Congratulations to Samual and Taoki, your lovescore is 98.463%!
Samual (~dioteckte@...) quit #xonotic.pickup (gonna kill myself now)
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#42
(05-16-2012, 05:32 PM)MirceaKitsune Wrote: Anyway, both divVerent and Samual said they only want this as a mutator. I'll do it as one for now, but after it's been around for a bit I might suggest including it in the main code and defaulting it. As a mutator people can test it, and specify if they'd like this after trying it out in practice (and seeing if it changes balance in a way that affects any category of players badly).
My first thought on this whole idea was that it could work well with the Overkill mod, since it uses hitscan weapons more than explosives.
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#43
In case the damage calculation is not based on bones, the visuals (like deforming the model on damage) might be a good idea.
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