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Poll: Do you like the race game levels?
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Absolutely - love 'em.
9 50.00%
No, don't like them.
2 11.11%
I don't really have an opinion.
7 38.89%
Total 18 vote(s) 100%
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[SUGGESTION] Thumbs down to the race levels

(12-19-2012, 06:05 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: Go ahead Lancer, explain how dismissive the arguments above were to your opinion, and how passive aggression and blackmail are the correct response to this.

Sure, no problem - and thanks for unlocking.

I have an opinion (like anyone) as to what makes a good FPS game. Xonotic advertises itself as a game which "aims to be the best possible open source first person shooter available. It could be considered most similar to Unreal Tournament and Quake at its heart, especially regarding teamplay and game mechanics." Having played through those other games I personally find the Race levels to be something very different. I've seen a number of other games do similar things; Duke Nukem, Crysis 2 and Nova all started having car driving scenarios within the game (for example) but as for Quake series and Unreal Tournament (until UT2004 at least); those classics kept FPS strictly as FPS, which is one thing I think made them so good.

And that was it. As previously stated, I found the Race levels to be somewhat of an annoying extra to play through and decided to make this thread as a suggestion for development direction, while also seeing what others think. Whether or not speed is an important skill (sure it is), whether or not I am a Xonotic newbie, or whether people don't care for the campaign as being as important as the multiplayer online matches / who has more skill; these are different issues to the point I was trying to make (and hence, I felt, somewhat dismissive of what I was saying, as is shutting me up for that matter).

I wasn't trying to troll though (sorry for that impression). Passive agression and blackmail?

(12-19-2012, 06:05 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: I'm waiting for constructive criticism from your part because you seem very passionate about this issue. Keep in mind that we have to show the different game modes to the new user because, believe it or not, some people like things that Lancer hates better than other things that Lancer likes.

Well, I don't know what to suggest... I've also seen the other thread on "single player suggestions" which is probably where the next step (if any) belongs. There are some good ideas over there about perhaps a developing story line etc which sound cool. Having a Race level (even though I hate them) where you have to get out before the whole enemy base blows up behind you might be a very effective way of integrating them so they make sense (I'd vote that we at least have something to shoot at on the way out). Some of the posts I'm reading here suggest that campaign really isn't seen as important enough to warrant such development (am I misreading here?)

Are the Xonotic campaigns undergoing a reformat at some stage? Maybe I should look into map making programs and contribute that way.

Thanks, this post looks much better :p

I like your idea of a 'get the heck out of here' scenario to include racing in the campaign. As for the shooting part, there are already some CTS (Complete This Stage) maps on public servers where you need to shoot triggers in a certain order and make your way to the end as fast as possible. I think you would enjoy those more.

The problem with a true storyline is: to make it interesting it would need quite some programming work. And a lot of custom maps too, of high quality. I do not see that happening in the near future, because the small group of devs that work on Xonotic are mostly more oriented towards multiplayer gaming. But if work like this shall get underway, it will probably look a lot more like your ideal campaign than what it currently is. Like others have said: right now it is mainly a placeholder that functions more as a showcase of the diverse Xonotic gameplay than anything else.

Having said that:
* PinkRobot wants nexball back in :p
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa

Lancer, you should realize that Xonotic isn't a single-player oriented game, it's ALL about multiplayer at the moment. As I said before, there is basically three main ways to play Xonotic.

1. Single Player - Either campaign or just go to "Multiplayer->Create" so you can setup your own single player match
2. Public servers - the skill levels here is really varied. You can either get into a server with complete beginner's or you can run into some of the masters.
3. Pickup - At #xonotic.pickup there is people arranging often higher-skilled matches, everything from Duel to CTF.

As for racing. Movement is a BIG part of the gameplay in Xonotic, you can't enjoy Xonotic fully if you don't know how to move efficiently, and you don't even have to know the movement well to finish those racing levels so it shouldn't be a big problem, there is movement tutorials( ) for movement. You can either create your own single player match in "Multiplayer -> Create" or just learn how to move. Removing racing levels won't make Xonotic better, only for one person(you). So it's not worth to remove them tbh.

It's good to understand that a lot of quake-like games have popular racing mods, and CTS has its fans in Xonotic as well. I think it's good to somehow highlight this in our singleplayer mode. I agree that the inclusion of CTS levels in the current singleplayer campaign isn't very coherent, but you could say the same about the campaign as a whole. Still, removing CTS makes the most objective sense to you because CTS people probably have lower singleplayer expectations compared to other players; but they are entitled to seeing their gamemode featured too... If we're not going to have a coherent story mode, then I would prefer the idea of having a separate CTS campaign -- perhaps as an officially endorsed "extension pack" of some sort that can be downloaded from the front page? PK3 archives and separate campaign files are all we need to build such a pack, and Xonotic already supports those fully...

OMG a single player debate (of course the 2 days i neglect to look at the forums something interesting pops up)

[Image: 4wNomGRtr9eLyFlSQUGHAh]
the stormkeep race is actually where I learned many of my movement skills that allow me to (almost) win in competitive matches ... but that was back in 0.5 when the time limit was much shorter ....

speaking of which ... if you want to make the difficult harder ... try winning each match without dieing ... ... I've done it (in 0.5 and 0.6 minus the broken level) ...

Thirdly ... there are millions of story ideas floating around for the single player campaign (on the foums and the wiki)... ... I am currently creating mine in comic form (not the forum comic things I have done earlier) as a way to attempt to solidify the storyline so that solid development can begin ...

anyways ... some of us (me ... Mario ... MirceaKitsune) are working on the single player aspect ... were just not working on it very quickly ...

Well being quick is one of the main skills for ctf attackers and also some duel players like to run away Smile

like me :3

Nice to see that you turned towards constructive criticism, Lancer. Even though this has been pointed out in various ways, I'd like to make the same point in another way: having a "bad" campaign is not a decision that has been made by the development team but rather a result of no one having spent time and efforts on creating a "good" campaign yet. If someone can offer an epic single player campaign with a consistent story that showcases most aspects of Xonotic gameplay, such a thing would for sure be welcomed by the dev team Smile
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No problem. For what it's worth I like Mr. Bougo's suggestion of having separate campaign / CTS / CTF etc categories; perhaps as separate mod pack downloads if it turns out that the sum total of them would otherwise make the default install look bloated. It makes sense that if the majority of people see Xonotic as multiplayer-centric, then have the default base install providing only that with the option of downloading single player level packs as add ons (maybe one small mission of, say, 5 matches in the default so we newbies know it's actually there). That way, there would be scope for a range of thematic missions as community developers / mappers got around to making them. Brings back memories of Jedi Knight Dark Forces; many campaigns were so-so, but then there were a lot to choose from and the best ones thrived on looking different from the rest. Trying to devlop something of an "Xonotic: the movie" experience as a mega campaign is likely to never get fnished, but if it does then it could also be integrated as an add on once it is complete. Having add on mission packs means that all the good single player campaign ideas different people have will get an ongoing chance to see the light of day.

Just try "Create".

(12-19-2012, 05:34 PM)Mirio Wrote: Just try "Create".

What message is this replying to?

To his last post, because he favors Single Player matches in a "campaign-style" and in "Create" you can set up anything you want to ->> Easiest solution.

(12-20-2012, 03:34 AM)Mirio Wrote: To his last post, because he favors Single Player matches in a "campaign-style" and in "Create" you can set up anything you want to ->> Easiest solution.
My hope is that there will be better campaigns than randomly generated ones. There is a difference.

It's not randomly? You pick the game mode, pick a level. set up number and skill of bots and whatnot...
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race is awesome , and im sure iposted here , so wtf?
someone moderated me??????

race mod helps with skills


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Go back one page, dear sir!
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa

Same here, I couldn't beat it when I first played it, taught me a lot about how to move.
Negative, I am a meat popsicle.
Announcer mic check and forum thread.

I just look at the campaign as a tutorial atm, and I don't care much for it..

If I want to play offline, I create a single player game with a few godlike bots (that aren't godlike at all) and finish them off, just to practice.

If I want to have fun, I go online and find a nice ctf/dm server with players, or I just join an organized match at the pickup channel (duels, tdm, ca, ctf).

I agree, the campaign could be more interesting, but it's not what the game is about atm, so it has 0 priority for me and most other people right now. Xonotic revolves around multiplayer, just like most of its predecessors did.

If one thing, I would love to see a campaign similar to the old quake: all on your own, have to beat maps with secrets and stuff, and monsters (maybe robots will fit better to Xonotic's theme).
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