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[SUGGESTION] Projectile bullets/beams instead of hitscan rays

#1
I honestly see no reason why hitscan weapons should remain hitscan? I know many people are fond of the instant-hit-from-any-distance-ability of some weapons, but instant hits aren't just unrealistic, but also silly and gives unrealistic advantage to campers. Personally, I really enjoy aim prediction for any weapon and I see no reason not to use it for bullet weapons (really really fast bullets) and even the Nexgun (amazingly fast projectile with a trail that looks like the beam we have for it now, and penetration) in Xonotic.

tl;dr: IMO hitscan isn't some sort of holy cow that should forever be preserved, and honestly, actually predicting your shots is a lot more fun than just point-and-click mechanics.

I've been pondering all or most projectiles being affected by gravity, too, I mean, really fast projectiles will barely be affected by it anyway. This also adds to the prediction fun, and keeps the campers away! Wink

This is just an idea, I don't know how well it would work in practice, of course. Just food for thought.
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#2
Just curious what part of the game is realistic? Also I believe the only weapon that is hitscan is the nex. Machine gun and shotgun are both ballistic or they are hitscan but also have a curve.
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#3
(05-19-2010, 02:27 PM)DiaboliK Wrote: Just curious what part of the game is realistic?

Sorry, I meant to emphasize that being unrealistic isn't a good reason to take it out, but it being a bad feature in the first place, for gameplay reasons, is.

(05-19-2010, 02:27 PM)DiaboliK Wrote: Also I believe the only weapon that is hitscan is the nex. Machine gun and shotgun are both ballistic or they are hitscan but also have a curve.

I didn't know that, I thought those trails the sg/mg spew out were tracers rendered after the fact... I also didn't know they were shot in a curve, so that means those weapons are affected by gravity already? I never noticed.
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#4
Id argue hitscan is more vital to ppl moving around then ppl who camp; if you just sit there contemplating your next headshot you have time to predict a ballistic projectile. Also unless projectiles get anti-lagged im vetoing removal of hitscan, its the only reliable way one has to hit over medium+ distance with a 'normal' internet connection (~100ping). Specially if your target is moving fast or "warping".

Id be perfectly happy with removing hitscan if the game-play mechanic issues with current projectile weapons was solved (eg ping dependency). as it stands now only weapons with either huge radius (rl, mortar), hitscan (nex, mg, sg) are simple enough for the common player to use. At least thats what i see when playing nexuiz online.
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#5
I would have to agree with tZork's point. Then I would also be for the removal of hitscan.
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#6
I agree, all projectiles should be antilagged, otherwise this wouldn't work well Smile
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#7
The problem is anti-lagging projectiles in a good way is far from a easy/trivial thing to do.
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#8
Shotgun feels like it's hitscan, but I don't think it is
Nex is hit scan
Hagar NEEDS to be hit scan lol
Machine Gun is no longer hit scan
Camping Rifle isn't hit scan
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#9
tnx Lee_Stricklin... no idea how that info is relevant the the topic tough. and both mg and sg is hitscan (at leas the last time i looked)
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#10
(05-19-2010, 03:50 PM)tZork Wrote: tnx Lee_Stricklin... no idea how that info is relevant the the topic tough. and both mg and sg is hitscan (at leas the last time i looked)

The last I checked the current machine gun in the git was ballistic and is also ballistic in the balance settings I tweaked.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#11
No, Uzi, SG etc. are hitscan, because of g_antilag_bullets 1 (which turns ballistic bullets into curved hitscan).

And antilagged projectiles suck, even if implemented right, because from the target's view, they would not appear from the enemy who shot them, but at a random place in air (or even directly at the target). Dodging rockets would e.g. become impossible with that.

As from the target's view, antilagged projectiles are just as hard to dodge as hitscan, we should just keep it simple and hitscan.
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#12
Arrgh, why do we always go back to this topic?
NEX IS HITSCAN. PERIOD. Like it was in Quake2, Quake3, Unreal sniper riffles, etc.
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"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
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#13
Oops, forgot this thread, sorry to bump but, Brutail, I don't see why Nex couldn't be turned into a projectile weapon, like the other hitscan weapons? From a gameplay standpoint, IMO, it makes no sense to have a weapon that shoots beams with infinite speed. Even real world lasers don't travel that fast, but that's beside the point: I think a long range weapon would be more fun if it used actual projectiles that travel really fast (and in the case of Nex, leave a beam trail behind).
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#14
Jesus, Beefeater, we're making an arena shooter, not a physics model. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as cross, but in order for the game to remain fast, we need hitscan weapons.
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

[Image: di-712770583645.png]
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#15
WTF, if the nex gets removed ( I know developers will not do that), I'll simply stop playing this game. I play minsta only whether 1on1/dm/CTF.
I totally disagree with this idea, AND there should be weapons of different kinds, there should be Nex.
Look at nexuiz servers, what's the most popular mode? Minstagib. PERIOD
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#16
(Minstagib is a mutator Wink )
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

[Image: di-712770583645.png]
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#17
Yet it and CTF are insanely popular. If the game were reduced to DM, CTF, and Minstagib, the complaints would be few and only last for a while. BTW, I'm not advocating the removal of the other gametypes. Keep the Nex hitscan, it is an integral part of the game.
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#18
You can't reduce the game to DM, CTF, and minsta, because minsta isn't a gamemode. It's a mutator. You can have minsta CTF, minsta DM, minsta KH, minsta ONS, etc. etc. DM, CTF, and the rest are gamemodes. You can't combine them (no CTF TDM unless you are playing with bad teammates).
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

[Image: di-712770583645.png]
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#19
Sorry to bump, I forgot to read this thread

(06-11-2010, 04:15 PM)Roanoke Wrote: Jesus, Beefeater, we're making an arena shooter, not a physics model. I'm sorry if I'm coming off as cross, but in order for the game to remain fast, we need hitscan weapons.

I don't see why the game can't remain fast without hitscan. Do you mean from a latency perspective? If so I understand, but I don't think projectiles are that big of a deal anymore, for broadband/adsl connections at least. Backwards reconciliation should fix bullets firing late depending on ping, but I understand that may be hard to implement.

(06-11-2010, 06:47 PM)XV22 Wrote: WTF, if the nex gets removed ( I know developers will not do that), I'll simply stop playing this game. I play minsta only whether 1on1/dm/CTF.
I totally disagree with this idea, AND there should be weapons of different kinds, there should be Nex.
Look at nexuiz servers, what's the most popular mode? Minstagib. PERIOD

I don't understand, did I say there shouldn't be weapons of different kinds or that Nex should be removed? IMO, if Nex beam speed remains extremely fast, the fact that it's a projectile would only be noticeable at extreme ranges (and I don't think that's a bad thing)
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#20
you dont get it right? nobody except you wants the nex to be non-hitscan, so why should this be changed? hitscan is just fine for the nex. and why should it be changed if there is no difference in the outcome at all? you just want to change it because you want to *know* that the nex fires ballistic bullets, not because you think it is better for the gameplay.
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#21
Would probably feel like how UT's shock-rifle does and sniper in it, both are technically what I would call hitscan, but they both just travel at really fast speeds (I think, don't quote me on that).
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#22
(06-21-2010, 07:01 AM)Beefeater Wrote:
(06-11-2010, 06:47 PM)XV22 Wrote: WTF, if the nex gets removed ( I know developers will not do that), I'll simply stop playing this game. I play minsta only whether 1on1/dm/CTF.
I totally disagree with this idea, AND there should be weapons of different kinds, there should be Nex.
Look at nexuiz servers, what's the most popular mode? Minstagib. PERIOD

I don't understand, did I say there shouldn't be weapons of different kinds or that Nex should be removed? IMO, if Nex beam speed remains extremely fast, the fact that it's a projectile would only be noticeable at extreme ranges (and I don't think that's a bad thing)

u proposed making its beams or whatever take time to reach target, so there is no "instant-hit-from-any-distance-ability", if that gets applied, then simply don't call it Nex anymore, it's not Nex. So u were proposing removing it.
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#23
(06-22-2010, 06:29 AM)kojn^ Wrote: Would probably feel like how UT's shock-rifle does and sniper in it, both are technically what I would call hitscan, but they both just travel at really fast speeds (I think, don't quote me on that).

Haven't played UT, but exactly!

I don't get the negativity to this suggestion tbh, and saying the change would "remove" Nex is just hyperbole. This is just a suggestion, and if (when backwards reconciliation is added) it doesn't work out in practice, that's fine by me. I think it would be an interesting experiment, at least.

(06-21-2010, 07:36 AM)jaykay Wrote: you dont get it right? nobody except you wants the nex to be non-hitscan, so why should this be changed? hitscan is just fine for the nex. and why should it be changed if there is no difference in the outcome at all? you just want to change it because you want to *know* that the nex fires ballistic bullets, not because you think it is better for the gameplay.

Read my posts again, it would have an effect for very long ranges and that's why I want it. Or let's spread assumptions about my motives for wanting the feature, that's more fun!
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