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nexuiz server in xonotic browser

#1
Hi xonotic community,

since some weeks i wonder that all the time nexuiz server are avaliable in xonotic serverbrowser. Why is this so? I connected there several times with the xonotic client and was surprised how shit the gameplay feels on these servers, maybe they are optimized only for nexuiz client. Is it really necessary to support those nexuiz servers. My opinion is: No, they have to be removed form the xonotic serverlist. But i would like to hear the community opinion about it.
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#2
There was a discussion about that not very long ago. Long story short: these servers show up in Xonotic not by the choice of our devs and will be blocked.
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#3
I tested the servers out a while back and did not enjoy it. Armor and health was useless, everyone just spammed whatever weapon they had their hands on regardless the situation and having the ability to dual wield weapons (doubling a firepower that was too strong to begin with) did not improve that at all.

I was originally advocating for making a new category for Nexuiz, but after seeing the reason they're listed in first place and the sheer amount of irrationality shown by the person in favor of them, ultimately not managing to make a good case for them - they can go to hell for all I care.
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#4
The only advantage of the nexuiz servers is that there are people on them. Otherwise FPS is lower, they are forcing custom hud on you, and if you want to play on vanilla xon server later, you better restart xonotic, otherwise you will enjoy many weird bugs. I don't understand what is the problem with xon ban of this servers. If someone really loves playing on nexuiz servers, you can just fork xonotic client and remove the ban, and keep playing.
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#5
Even better: Just download Nexuiz. Tongue
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#6
(09-17-2016, 05:52 AM)PinkRobot Wrote: There was a discussion about that not very long ago. Long story short: these servers show up in Xonotic not by the choice of our devs and will be blocked.

Ah thx for the information. I didn't notice that there was allready a thread about this. But the akimbo servers are still in my serverbrowserlist.

(09-17-2016, 09:37 AM)boomboom Wrote: If someone really loves playing on nexuiz servers, you can just fork xonotic client and remove the ban, and keep playing.

I agree, people who wanna join these e.g. akimbo servers on purpose should be allowed to connect there by typing "connect IP:port" in console (or maybe store the link in the favorites). But all the others, perhaps new players should not have the posiblity to get there by accident. New players should not get in touch with these bad setup servers. I would have never start playing Xonotic, if my first contact with the game would have been playing on such an akimbo server.
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#7
(09-17-2016, 09:48 AM)Cooper Hawks Wrote: I agree, people who wanna join these e.g. akimbo servers on purpose should be allowed to connect there by typing "connect IP:port" in console (or maybe store the link in the favorites). But all the others, perhaps new players should not have the posiblity to get there by accident. New players should not get in touch with these bad setup servers. I would have never start playing Xonotic, if my first contact with the game would have been playing on such an akimbo server.

Its admins from a dying game trying to hold on to the life raft by modifying their servers to be listed in Xonotic server list. You have to realize most of those people don't like Xonotic and they don't want any part of it just exploit the in game server list.

If they gave a tiny fuck about Xonotic they would at least have set up Xonotic test servers and start to port their code to work on Xonotic. Contribute back to the code/community and no one would have cared.
[MoFo] Servers - North America - Hosted in Kansas USA - Admin DeadDred [MoFo]
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#8
I stumbled on one of these servers a while ago, and though the gameplay felt really awkward, there was a lot of fun, because there were actual people playing there (and not much progamers). As in 6v6 ctf or more, you don't see these amounts of people on all Xonotic servers combined :-(. Sometimes it seems that the whole community is only setting up new servers to play Xonotic, but there's nobody to play on them, it's high time to announce the game to more people.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#9
(10-13-2016, 07:51 AM)Cyber Killer Wrote: I stumbled on one of these servers a while ago, and though the gameplay felt really awkward, there was a lot of fun, because there were actual people playing there (and not much progamers). As in 6v6 ctf or more, you don't see these amounts of people on all Xonotic servers combined :-(. Sometimes it seems that the whole community is only setting up new servers to play Xonotic, but there's nobody to play on them, it's high time to announce the game to more people.

If those server admins gave a flying fuck about Xonotic they would have set up Xonotic based servers and not try to sneak their way around the announce/stats server.
[MoFo] Servers - North America - Hosted in Kansas USA - Admin DeadDred [MoFo]
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#10
(10-13-2016, 10:16 AM)end user Wrote: If those server admins gave a flying fuck about Xonotic they would have set up Xonotic based servers and not try to sneak their way around the announce/stats server.

Please take a deep breath and read my post again, I think you misunderstood what I said.
My contributions to Xonotic: talking in the forum, talking some more, talking a bit in the irc, talking in the forum again, XSkie
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#11
Not the Xonotic client should block these servers. These fake xonotic servers should be blocked by the masterserver. Who wrote the code for the xonotic masterserver? Should not be very difficult to check if a new server is also in the nexuiz serverlist, so if it's in both lists the xonotic masterserver can block the whole IP or IPTongueort. The fake Xonotic server always uses "***2.5.2***" in the public qcstatus cvar. So another way to identify these servers.
Most of the players on akimbo server started there gaming on xonotic. So new xontoic players will always play akimbo server, because these servers are the only ones with constantly players inside. If Xonotic dev team don't want to lose all new players it should act, now!
Btw this list seems to be wrong:
https://github.com/xonotic/xonotic/commi...90fb299660

85.25.139.30 is not a fake server and 51.15.46.239 is a fake server but not in this list.
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#12
Pre-0.6 days Xonotic should very much have been fully backward compatible with Nexuiz. In my honest opinion that's a key thing that kept it from becoming popular. Now it needs to fully distance itself and get ready to be promoted to hell and back after it's engine change and weapon system modifications, maybe even seeing a relaunch of sorts.

(09-17-2016, 05:52 AM)PinkRobot Wrote: There was a discussion about that not very long ago. Long story short: these servers show up in Xonotic not by the choice of our devs and will be blocked.

Wow, are Nexuiz players THAT attached to the outdated client? Makes no sense, especially since Xonotic can be configured to be 1:1 to it's gameplay and even art style if models are imported. Official maps aside (which should be updated and added to Xonotic in my opinion), I don't think there's any real reason that anyone should want to cling onto it.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#13
(12-29-2016, 08:24 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Wow, are Nexuiz players THAT attached to the outdated client?

It's not a problem of nexuiz a client. These fake xonotic servers wanna "steal" xonotic players.
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#14
These people will be gone in the 0.8.2 update
[Image: 38443.png]
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#15
(12-29-2016, 08:24 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Wow, are Nexuiz players THAT attached to the outdated client?
I don't think they're attached to the client but the gameplay. There's a lot of Xonotic players on those servers.

(09-17-2016, 08:05 AM)Smilecythe Wrote: I tested the servers out a while back and did not enjoy it. Armor and health was useless, everyone just spammed whatever weapon they had their hands on regardless the situation and having the ability to dual wield weapons (doubling a firepower that was too strong to begin with) did not improve that at all.
I have the same experience but it might be what people enjoy. It seems that a lot of people prefer simpler gameplay. Insta always having players is one example. Jeff's servers and Nexuiz are two more.

Current vanilla is geared towards strong players and only makes them stronger. In Nexuiz and jeff's everyone is able to get a couple of kills and have fun. In vanilla, after a little while someone strong joins and completely blows everyone out of the water. Don't know item timings? Screw you, you're up against 200/100 stack with 100/0. Didn't spend hours tweaking binds for combos? You can only do half the damage the other player does. Neither is a problem on the currently popular servers.

I am not saying we should make xon gameplay completely devoid of skill but maybe we could introduce item jitter on public/casual servers and finally make sane default binds? Wink

Btw, i tried asking why Nexuiz is more fun than Xon on one of the akimbo servers, none of the 8 people there cared to answer me.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases
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#16
Martin-T, feel free to make a balance thread about vanilla gameplay if you want to go down that route. OP's post was more on our opinion on whether or not they should be allowed to stay on our server list. I'd be happy to respond to your questions, opinions and suggestions on another thread. That way the appropriate discussion can be had there.

On that note, having played in the Akimbo server, it indeed did feel like shit and things felt totally hacked together. And considering they wormed their way onto our list without permission they should be gotten rid of immediately.
[Image: 38443.png]
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#17
Sorry, I just wanted to mention that we could learn a thing or two from these servers and got carried away.

Last time somebody made improvement suggestions (improving the default binds), the majority opinion was "let noobs suffer", but sure, I'll try to make a suggestion list.

Either way, the "best" servers should absolutely be banned, they only make xon look broken and don't contribute anything back.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases
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#18
The Nexuiz servers are too far away for me to play on. The poster in the other thread may have poorly made his case regarding the issue, but he's no actual representative or liaison for those servers. If those servers really cause technical problems for clients, then I could see the block as justifiable.

On a side note:
I don't think the "issue with standard balance" is the balance itself.
I say this as new players, should they stick around, on my server are typically taught to circle and strafe jump, and informed of tactics regarding items. This typically has them doing well in a very short time amongst pubs. And is more time effective than playing some hundreds matches of instagib+hook, etc yet still being mediocre in everything else other than shooting Vortex.
As far as skill concerns go, there are games where skill differences will be more severe (trained player vs "I didn't look at the tutorial" player), but those games also have very thorough tutorials as a part of them.
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#19
(12-29-2016, 02:43 PM)martin-t Wrote: Current vanilla is geared towards strong players and only makes them stronger.

Imo current vanillia xon is good like it is. Maybe there should be some more *.cfg to make it easier to setup game servers especially for newbees to prevent good players to dominate that much.

Xonotic biggest advantage is, that the current gameplay makes it different to nearly all the other fps shooters. For me it's the best multiplayer fps i played the last 20 years.
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#20
(12-29-2016, 02:43 PM)martin-t Wrote: Current vanilla is geared towards strong players and only makes them stronger. In Nexuiz and jeff's everyone is able to get a couple of kills and have fun. In vanilla, after a little while someone strong joins and completely blows everyone out of the water. Don't know item timings? Screw you, you're up against 200/100 stack with 100/0. Didn't spend hours tweaking binds for combos? You can only do half the damage the other player does. Neither is a problem on the currently popular servers.
This is a typical misconception. It's not so much about strong players as it is about different types of things to be good at. In instagib, these things are primarily aim and movement. In Vanilla it's aim, movement AND resource control. As soon as you make armors and other resource control elements irrelevant in vanilla, you gear it back towards aim/movement only type of gameplay. When you're competing in a game mode that renders resource control useless, then you simply dismiss one skill out of the equation while concentrating it in other areas, ie. aim. So if you're not a good aimer then you will never be on top.

In vanilla you can be a horrible aimer and still end up top3 on almost every tournament. I'm talking about Mirio of course. He makes up for his holy mother of what awful crylink spam aim with clever positioning and almost atom-watch like item timing.
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