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Modder looking to mod

#1
Hi there. I'm Lyberta, software developer and musician. I've been modding video games since I was 5. Made tons of amateur content for various games.

In about 2007 I mostly settled on Valve games, especially Team Fortress 2. I've spent years making maps and server side plugins for it but then Valve started ruining the game with unlockable items. When Valve started selling in-game items for real money, I understood that proprietary software is an injustice, got rid of my Steam account with 120+ games, got rid of all proprietary software on my PC, removed Windows and installed GNU/Linux.

I've been searching Wikipedia for libre games and found Xonotic and a few others and eventually settled on Red Eclipse. RE has a very good in-game map editor and I've made a couple of maps. But the lead developer made the rules that if you connect to official master server, you should not modify the server. This basically means that if you connect to official master server, you are playing a proprietary game. I've complained about that on official forums and was banned for that. Whatever, some people have control issues.

Anyway, so I've moved to Xonotic. I thought Xonotic is written in C++ but it turns out the engine is in C and the game is in QuakeC, that is unfortunate as I don't like C. Also, I've found that the maps need to be compiled and it takes a lot of time. I remember making maps for Source engine and it could take more than an hour to compile a big map.

I've seen posts on this forum talking about changing the engine and I'd be happy to help. Until then, I guess I'm gonna start learning QuakeC and NetRadiant.
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#2
Hi and welcome! I took a look on your website and I applaud your color scheme. The Hedgewars stuff looks like fun, we (PB clan members) used to play that too. Here is a video of one of our team's mod that I hope you will enjoy. Have fun in Xonotic. There is plenty to mod!
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#3
Quote:This basically means that if you connect to official master server, you are playing a proprietary game

I understand your point here, but I don't think that's the right terminology to use. Limiting a master server list to only unaltered servers doesn't make the product proprietary. The game is still free and open source under a variety of licenses! You can still mod it until your heart is content, but the team is under no obligation to show it in their master server if you do so.

When that happens in Xonotic, we'll just place your server into a different category in the server list. That way people can still see your server on the list, but also that it has been modified such that it is no longer the "official" game. I think that's more than fair under most circumstances.

Anyway, welcome! I hope you find this community helpful.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#4
Welcome.
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#5
(02-21-2017, 01:09 PM)Antibody Wrote: I understand your point here, but I don't think that's the right terminology to use. Limiting a master server list to only unaltered servers doesn't make the product proprietary. The game is still free and open source under a variety of licenses! You can still mod it until your heart is content, but the team is under no obligation to show it in their master server if you do so.

But this basically removes freedom 1 - freedom is study and modify the source code of the program. With multiplayer games, master server is usually the only way to attract players to your server. Banning modding kills the mod scene.

(02-21-2017, 01:09 PM)Antibody Wrote: When that happens in Xonotic, we'll just place your server into a different category in the server list. That way people can still see your server on the list, but also that it has been modified such that it is no longer the "official" game. I think that's more than fair under most circumstances.

Yes, that is fair. However, I have stumbled on this thread. It worries me because I have 0.8.1 client, I see those servers in my server list and I see nothing wrong with those servers. Sure, they are not the best but whoever hosts them did nothing wrong. Btw the same developer - Mario - who banned those servers hosts Quake 1 servers on the Xonotic master server. So if you're not a dev you can't host other games, if you are - sure?

I plan to host my own modded servers which will not feel like vanilla Xonotic and I don't want them to be banned.
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#6
Read the thread carefully and you will find that those servers that were banned did not run a modded Xonotic version but a Nexuiz version that was hacked in order to show up in the server list. No one objected to these people to run a Xonotic server that feels exactly like the banned servers, but hacking another game to show up in Xonotic is not acceptable (and leads to technical complications). The "quake" servers of Mario run a Xonotic server modded to feel like quake. So you are welcome to mod Xonotic. If you mod other games, that's great, too, but don't expect them to be accepted in Xonotic master server.
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: For You (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#7
(02-23-2017, 01:12 AM)Halogene Wrote: Read the thread carefully and you will find that those servers that were banned did not run a modded Xonotic version but a Nexuiz version that was hacked in order to show up in the server list.

I don't know what software is run on these servers but I haven't found incompatibilities and/or deficiencies with Xonotic client. But I'm not going to resurrect that thread here.
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#8
(02-23-2017, 02:20 AM)Lyberta Wrote: I don't know what software is run on these servers..

So the game that shows up on our master server might even be proprietary software and you would not care as long as it is compatible? Interesting stance Smile I'm all for software freedom, but that should not have to mean that everything goes, all the time. :p

Anyway, I thought we were talking about Hedgewars Sad I'd rather talk about that than this crap again to be honest. I never liked shoppa and I suck at it! How about you?
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#9
(02-23-2017, 03:15 AM)PinkRobot Wrote: So the game that shows up on our master server might even be proprietary software and you would not care as long as it is compatible?
I would care. For example, I don't like that Mario's servers run proprietary Quake assets and anyone who connects there commits copyright infringement. Also, some maps on "Jeff's vehicle warfare" server have some kind of proprietary content. Not to mention that almost all radio tracks are proprietary.

(02-23-2017, 03:15 AM)PinkRobot Wrote: Anyway, I thought we were talking about Hedgewars Sad I'd rather talk about that than this crap again to be honest. I never liked shoppa and I suck at it! How about you?
My main issue with Hedgewars is that there is no automatic way of sharing content. The game is p2p and there is no way for host to transmit mods to other players. So, in the end I play with bots usually. No for the strategy but for pure unfiltered violence.
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#10
For what it's worth, most of Quake's assets are considered shareware, and can be distributed freely if not modified. Of course, this only applies to the first episode (while all 4 are unlocked on my server).
I'm still in the process of building a package using freely available assets, so the originals are considered placeholders in the meantime.

The code on those servers was ported from the GPL'ed Quake 1 source to Xonotic's codebase, so they are effectively Xonotic servers (unlike the Akimbo server, which is in fact running a hacked Nexuiz server).
You can view the code here: https://github.com/MarioSMB/modpack/tree.../mod/quake


Hope you enjoy your stay in Xonotic, more the merrier when it comes to modding!
[Image: 230.png]
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#11
(02-23-2017, 08:54 AM)Lyberta Wrote: I would care. For example, I don't like that Mario's servers run proprietary Quake assets and anyone who connects there commits copyright infringement. Also, some maps on "Jeff's vehicle warfare" server have some kind of proprietary content. Not to mention that almost all radio tracks are proprietary.

I completely agree aout the radio tracks. I stepped onto some weird CTS server a while ago and a constant stream of "radio" sound files were pushed to my client for no good reason. If I enjoyed mainstream music I would just listen to the radio. It's obnoxious.

(02-23-2017, 08:54 AM)Lyberta Wrote: My main issue with Hedgewars is that there is no automatic way of sharing content. The game is p2p and there is no way for host to transmit mods to other players. So, in the end I play with bots usually. No for the strategy but for pure unfiltered violence.

Yeah that's true. Although the mod we had was for our own entertainment only, which made synching up our versions pretty easy. I remember our ambition to disable the turn based aspects of the game, but that was far too much work if I remember correctly. Still, great game and lots of fun with friends for sure.
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#12
(02-23-2017, 10:40 AM)Mario Wrote: I'm still in the process of building a package using freely available assets, so the originals are considered placeholders in the meantime.

Good. I really liked Freedoom and OpenArena is not so bad. I hope to see 100% libre version of Quake some day. I really hate when developers release source code but keep assets proprietary.

(02-23-2017, 10:40 AM)PinkRobot Wrote: Yeah that's true. Although the mod we had was for our own entertainment only, which made synching up our versions pretty easy. I remember our ambition to disable the turn based aspects of the game, but that was far too much work if I remember correctly. Still, great game and lots of fun with friends for sure.

Had Hedgewars been written in C++, I'd consider serious modding of that game. For now I only learned that I don't like Lua.
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#13
(02-23-2017, 12:26 AM)Lyberta Wrote: However, I have stumbled on this thread. It worries me because I have 0.8.1 client, I see those servers in my server list and I see nothing wrong with those servers. Sure, they are not the best but whoever hosts them did nothing wrong. Btw the same developer - Mario - who banned those servers hosts Quake 1 servers on the Xonotic master server. So if you're not a dev you can't host other games, if you are - sure?

I plan to host my own modded servers which will not feel like vanilla Xonotic and I don't want them to be banned.

Its simple when those servers switch to using Xonotic as their server software base then they'll welcome other wise fuck them. Since they have no desire to run Xonotic code, contribute back to Xon and mostly want to steal the user base, again fuck em.
[MoFo] Servers - North America - Hosted in Montreal Canada and EU Paris France - Admin DeadDred [MoFo]
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#14
Hello and welcome to the forums. I think you'll be happy to find many members of this community are users of GNU+Linux, and other FOSS software. Many even hold a similar ideology to you when it comes to the four essential freedoms.
(02-23-2017, 12:26 AM)Lyberta Wrote:
(02-21-2017, 01:09 PM)Antibody Wrote: I understand your point here, but I don't think that's the right terminology to use. Limiting a master server list to only unaltered servers doesn't make the product proprietary. The game is still free and open source under a variety of licenses! You can still mod it until your heart is content, but the team is under no obligation to show it in their master server if you do so.

But this basically removes freedom 1 - freedom is study and modify the source code of the program. With multiplayer games, master server is usually the only way to attract players to your server. Banning modding kills the mod scene.

As far as I understand it, the master server is a service being offered free that runs FOSS software.

Your argument is that losing exposure to modded servers limits a users freedom. While that may be an unintended side-effect, the user hasn't lost any freedoms granted by the license, the code is still free to study, modify and run.

Xonotic Mods are far from banned.
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#15
(03-09-2017, 11:35 AM)-z- Wrote: As far as I understand it, the master server is a service being offered free that runs FOSS software.

I've seen this being said a lot. Therefore, I'm designing a system that will work without master servers. But based on the current development speed it would take me a decade to produce a stable version.
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