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[SUGGESTION] Single Player Tutorial Game(s)

#26
@Antares*: Afaik, there's no easy way to reset velocity when teleporting. However, the floor teleporter could teleport the player back in a vertical direction. It would prevent such velocity exploit.

@Smilecythe: I can try to fix some of the issues you mentioned on my branch (Spike29/tutorial_visuals). Some of them seem fairly easy to fix (like the blaster run room or the narrow windows).

Iirc the circle jump segments come after the ramp jump segments, so a newbie wouldn't know circle jumping is possible on the ramp segment.  Tongue

If Freddy agrees, I can also try to implement additional rooms with your suggestions.
Martin-t also suggested on IRC to improve the Devastator target practice (it's currently possible to hit the 3 targets without guiding the rockets).
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#27
(12-14-2017, 03:36 AM)SpiKe Wrote: @Antares*: Afaik, there's no easy way to reset velocity when teleporting.

This can be done by setting the speed key on the teleporter destination (misc_teleporter_dest) to -1.
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#28
I am more than OK with people adding new rooms or improving existing ones. My intention was that other mappers can easily extend it.

@Smilecythe:
  • I know that it's possible to clear the circle-jump room with a normal jump (if you jump from the right spot), but I also don't want to make the circle-jump too hard for newbies. I guess that needs some fine tuning.
  • Newbies won't know about circle-jumps in the first 2 ramp-jump rooms and ramp-jumps are much easier, so I don't think that this is a big problem.
  • I guess we can enlarge the blaster run room, but again: This is a map for newbies and I don't want it to be too hard. Newbies will probably suck at strafing for some time anyways.
  • Jumping over gaps instead of doors: Might be worth a try, but I think a closing door gives you better visual feedback than falling into a teleporter.
  • Speed preservation via turning: That's a good idea
  • I'm not sure how to properly teach air control, so if anyone has an idea on how to do this, feel free to create a concept.
  • Blaster target practice is definitely a good idea, maybe we could even force people to switch to vortex in the air by requiring more damage than the blaster can deal.
  • Crylink primary target practice: I wanted to add such a room, but I just don't know what to do here. A buttons HP does not regen/reset after some time currently and the projectiles are seperate entities, so you also can't use the newly added "DONTACCUMULATEDMG" flag
  • I know that the target practice windows are quite small, but I also don't want them to look like you can just jump through them (and I don't like invisible walls)
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#29
(12-14-2017, 09:23 AM)t0uYK8Ne Wrote:
(12-14-2017, 03:36 AM)SpiKe Wrote: @Antares*: Afaik, there's no easy way to reset velocity when teleporting.

This can be done by setting the speed key on the teleporter destination (misc_teleporter_dest) to -1.

Wow thanks, I didn't know it was that simple Big Grin

EDIT: Actually, all teleporter destination entities already have the "speed" key set to -1.
I played the map again, and velocity is indeed reset to 0 when you teleport.
Antares, maybe what you saw happened with an old version of the map?
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#30
I worked a bit on Freddy's tutorial map, here's the download link
Feedback is of course welcome.

Changes:
  • Added a Blaster target practice room. One target requires to blaster jump to a higher window.
  • Improved the Devastator target practice.
  • Resized and/or lowered the windows in the target practice rooms, so that you don't hurt yourself.
  • Increased the first ramp jump and circle jump segments by 32qu. It looks ok for the ramp jump, but maybe the circle jump is a bit too hard for a beginner now. Any opinion?
  • The door now closes after 2.5sec in the Blaster run room (it was 3sec). I haven't managed to reach the door by strafe jumping anymore. Maybe some CTS player can try it? Smile
  • Added a few health pickups in the Blaster and Crylink rooms, in case you fail and have to start over.
About air control: maybe a good way to teach it would be to use a jumppad that pushes you into the void, unless you turn to a platform on your left/right?
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#31
For my taste its way too advanced as a tutorial map to teach the basics. im sure it will cause frustration. 
Im my opinion a tutorial map like the one from nexuiz would be optimal.

BTW is the rocketcurving even possible? It seems very narrow.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#32
(01-04-2018, 04:30 PM)Cortez666 Wrote: For my taste its way too advanced as a tutorial map to teach the basics. im sure it will cause frustration. 
Im my opinion a tutorial map like the one from nexuiz would be optimal.

BTW is the rocketcurving even possible? It seems very narrow.

Of course, rocketcurving is possible. Did you have trouble with it? This room can be enlarged if needed, let's see what other people think.

I watched a video of the Nexuiz tutorial on YouTube, it looks easier indeed but the concept isn't very different from this one.
I think the plan is to add voice clips to guide the player, just like in the old Nexuiz tutorial.


Not all the sections are "advanced", btw. The first movement section is really easy, beginners really need to learn how to bunny hop and how to perform simple ramp jumps.
Maybe the weapons section could be split in 2 parts as well, a basic and a more advanced one. Anyhow, the Blaster practice should be in the basic section.

I think it's rather sad to see newcomers joining vanilla servers and running around without knowing how to bunny hop and how to use the Blaster.

There should still be an advanced section about circle jumps, strafing, double-ramp jumps, etc. for more experienced players who want to make further improvements.
It would make no sense to allow this kind of tricks, but not to teach them through the tutorial. Otherwise, these tricks will only be used by a competitive minority.

TL;DR: I don't think this tutorial is too advanced, but separating the "basic" and "advanced" sections could be better for complete beginners.
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#33
The difficulty seems fine to me, maybe the one ramp jump where you have to strafe in the air is a bit hard.

A couple things to make it better:
  • show the text hints again when the player fails
  • place images on walls/floors in each section that show the keys you need to press similar to the hud_panel_pressedkeys - i wouldn't know what circle jump means if i didn't already know how to do it and it's hard to explain without visuals. You don't want people to have to open halogene's newbie corner to finish the tut
  • enable hud_panel_pressedkeys and hud_panel_physics

A second, harder map is probably a good idea - this tut just showcases the mechanics but it's not long enough to learn them intuitively. Players should be able to use the mechanics without having to think about them to be of any use to them.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases

<[BOT]Hоtdоg> anyone here lives near martin?
<[BOT]Hоtdоg> will pay monies for shooting him
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#34
I have a suggestion to put textures like a quarter or semi circle for things that involve circle jumps. Sized just enough and on the ground such that the player can trace their steps on it and positioned so they'd make the ramp jump.

I am not sure if something like that may actually work.

Picture is sort of what I'm getting at.


Attached Files
.png   halfcircle.png (Size: 6.31 KB / Downloads: 179)
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#35
(01-05-2018, 05:40 AM)SpiKe Wrote: The first movement section is really easy, beginners really need to learn how to bunny hop and how to perform simple ramp jumps.
I think it would be much benefit to the map to several difficulty segments to it, this way players could revisit the map as their skill progresses later on. I think it's absolutely pointless to have a circle jumping trial which you can clear even without a circle jump.

Having said that, I'd be nice to have difficulties ranging from between "bare minimum" and "barely possible".
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#36
I agree with Smile but I think they should be separate maps - a tut that everyone is expected to pass, then "challenges" of increasing difficulty. Some of them could introduce additional concepts (if we for example decide the circle+ramp just is too hard for the current tut) or fast weapon switching (which i think should not be part of the tut until we figure a sane default config (binds+weap order) so players don't have to fuck around in the settings for 2 hours just to pass the tut).

To motivate players to complete the challenges, they could unlock special levels or mutators or it could be part of their xonstat profile similar to speed caps.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases

<[BOT]Hоtdоg> anyone here lives near martin?
<[BOT]Hоtdоg> will pay monies for shooting him
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#37
I'd be more in favor of a single map, there's no need to make players change maps as I believe you could fit it all together into one compact layout:

[Image: k8BsBe7.png]

This could easily be both the tutorial and training grounds in one map.
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#38
I think I'd still prefer separate maps:
  • It's easier to handle in code - you probably wanna lock harder difficulties until easier ones are completed because some percentage of players will just go to random portals and get stuck / not even complete the basics. If you wanna unlock other levels or similar stuff, it's probably easier to handle when the level is completed then from inside the level (I might be wrong about this one). And it makes collaborating easier because more people can work on the separate maps (I don't think merging .map files in git is doable).
  • You can just go to a menu and immediately see what's completed and what's not instead of having to load a map and look at different places. This will nag players a bit to complete them which in turn helps them get better.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases

<[BOT]Hоtdоg> anyone here lives near martin?
<[BOT]Hоtdоg> will pay monies for shooting him
Reply

#39
I do like the usability of @Smilecythe's idea. In World of Padman there used to be this map called Dojo (as in the practice place in Japanese martial art), in which one can go to different teleports to practice different techniques.

However, smaller maps are easier to maintain. I do have different reasons from martin-t though. (I don't think a map should dictate the sequence of techniques the players need to learn, or even what the players choose to learn.)
  • More than one mapper can make, change, and maintain maps and their versions.
  • Map compiling time will reduce. I imagine this will be very helpful since distance in such learning maps is crucial so a mapper may have to do multiple trials and errors.
  • Perhaps there can be different versions of maps adjusted for different physics, and different parts of the map need different scaling.

When we have enough learning maps, perhaps we can have one server dedicated to such purpose.

And eventually if we end up having stable smaller maps, then we can perhaps consider combining them into a big one.
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#40
(01-14-2018, 10:24 AM)martin-t Wrote: you probably wanna lock harder difficulties until easier ones are completed
I don't see why it has to be that way specifically. Somebody who's already versed with the basics of Quake esque movement shouldn't have to start from zero. I'm thinking more of a personal testing ground that is not competitive/achievement based in nature, useful for both newcomers and veterans at the same time. Tutorial and training in one, so to speak.
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#41
All in one tutorial maps do pose a technical challenge, since it's limited by the number of rooms we can squeeze into the grid without compile time being too crazy (and also navigating through a massive network of rooms in NetRadiant isn't very convenient).
But, I also agree that a tutorial shouldn't have locked stages.
Instead, perhaps a series of training maps all unlocked would work, so one is free to switch to whichever one they want to work on from the list. This also gives mappers freedom in designing those maps, and provides us with room for descriptions/instructions to each area.
That also allows us to include proper endings to the stages, so one gets a sense of completion out of beating the tutorial, instead of being sent back to the main hub and not to the menu.

The dojo approach has been tried multiple times, I don't believe it works.
[Image: 230.png]
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#42
I made a new build, available here: http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tu...11255f.pk3
Feedback is welcome.

Changes:
  • 2 new rooms in the "basic movement" section, with crouch, regular jump and jumppads practice (poorly textured for now)
  • 1 new room in the "advanced movement" section, with air control practice (poorly textured)
  • Enlarged the Devastator room a bit more.
  • Added panels above the teleporters in the lobby.
  • Various small tweaks.
Known issues:
  • It's possible to complete the strafe run room, the first ramp jump and the circle jump rooms by bunnyhopping, assuming you have enough momentum.
  • Shooting the same button twice will increase the counter. Freddy submitted a Merge Request to fix this behavior.

I kept the current map architecture for now, but I think Mario, martin-t and BuddyFriendGuy have a point.
I like the idea of multiple unlocked maps. Maybe 4 maps with basic/advanced movement and basic/advanced weapons tutorials could work.
The current rooms / sections could be reused so we don't have to reinvent the wheel.

@Mario: the current map takes only 7 minutes to compile on the autobuild server, it's just a bunch of rectangular rooms with lots of detail brushes Wink
@Smilecythe: I think your idea is overcomplicated, it looks like a game within the game. A tutorial should remain simple in design and should not be overly challenging imo.
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#43
Just finished playing the whole thing through, I had played an older one with a slightly different theme in the past.  I'm really happy with the progress, it has even more examples than the Nexuiz tutorial.  I like the inclusion of the monster room Smile.

Mortar and rocket room are a little difficult, took me longer than I expected, I'm not sure it would actually help a newbie understand the concept as well. Perhaps a little more space to make mistakes while learning to bounce the nades and curve the rockets.  Also I almost killed myself twice by mistake in the weapons rooms, maybe add health, or give shield for those rooms.

Only other suggestion is crylink room, maybe we need a teleporter pit to jump over with the speed we get to better illustrate getting speed with secondary fire.  Otherwise, I'm afraid new players will just walk through without thinking twice.

Looking great, keep up the good work, let me know if I can help in any way!
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#44
As many people suggested, I started to split the tutorial into several maps.
I focused on what would be the first level, a basic movement tutorial: download here

The rooms are the same as in the first section of the previous "complete" tutorial (see the posts above).
The info messages can now be displayed again after 5 seconds, otherwise there are no major changes.
The level ends when you reach the last teleporter, however it doesn't bring you back to the game menu as I expected. Instead, it displays the map voting screen.
Is there any way to return to the menu when the tutorial has been completed?
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#45
You might like this:
Code:
target_changelevel
chmap : Map file to switch to, leave empty to make this entity just end the match
gametype : Switch to this gametype. If empty, the same gametype stays

example:
Code:
{
"classname" "target_changelevel"
"origin" "256.000000 -6560.000000 512.000000"
"targetname" "next"
"spawnflags" "2"
"chmap" "sxb1_1-2"
}
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#46
Yes -z-, I used target_changelevel Smile
But leaving the "chmap" key empty won't return to the menu Sad
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#47
(02-18-2018, 02:51 PM)SpiKe Wrote: But leaving the "chmap" key empty won't return to the menu Sad
Sad dang
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#48
You can make it a campaign, this way it would also show up in the Single Player. When the last level ends it will show the menu. I've attached the campaign file (needs to be in maps folder).
Possibly we could also put the tutorial levels infront of the campaign levels. Nexuiz did this, but it was just one tutorial level.


   


Attached Files
.txt   campaigntutorial.txt (Size: 263 bytes / Downloads: 10)
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#49
Hello,

I started working on the tutorial again, and decided to make a campaign with 2 or 3 levels of increasing "difficulty" (instead of levels focusing on weapons, other levels on movement, etc.).

Level 1 is playable already (not 100% finished, it probably needs polishing and fixing in some areas, pls give feedback erebus ).
This level covers very basic techniques, such as crouching, jumping, bunnyhopping, blaster jumps, shotgun practice.

Link: http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tu...2d550f.pk3

On Level 2, I would like to teach players to perform basic ramp jumps, air control, and to teach more weapon tricks (blaster acceleration, curved rockets, etc.)

I put some ideas on a shared notepad some time ago: https://semestriel.framapad.org/p/xonotic-tutorial
Feel free to edit this pad or to comment on this thread Smile
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#50
(09-23-2018, 12:10 PM)SpiKe Wrote: Hello,

I started working on the tutorial again, and decided to make a campaign with 2 or 3 levels of increasing "difficulty" (instead of levels focusing on weapons, other levels on movement, etc.).

Level 1 is playable already (not 100% finished, it probably needs polishing and fixing in some areas, pls give feedback erebus ).
This level covers very basic techniques, such as crouching, jumping, bunnyhopping, blaster jumps, shotgun practice.

Link: http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tu...2d550f.pk3

On Level 2, I would like to teach players to perform basic ramp jumps, air control, and to teach more weapon tricks (blaster acceleration, curved rockets, etc.)

I put some ideas on a shared notepad some time ago: https://semestriel.framapad.org/p/xonotic-tutorial
Feel free to edit this pad or to comment on this thread Smile

Not bad. things which I noticed:

1. Shooting range is kinda meh. It's too easy to hit the barrier and hurt yourself. This room needs different layout. Also would be good if some monsters were farther away to test vortex on them. Smile Also need a bit elaborated text, not too detailed maybe, but mentioning every weapon name and its general purpose.
2. The text goes out too quickly, I couldn't read the message which appeared in the health/armor room.
3. Text about blaster and shotgun should be elaborated too. The blaster jump could be confusing for absolute noobs (needs something like "Shoot at your feet to jump high")
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