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Status of Xonotic?

#51
I'm not against players putting artificial restrictions on how they want to play the game but I'm against any kind of forced restrictions. After all, that means someone would just mod those restrictions out.
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#52
(10-11-2017, 05:59 PM)Lyberta Wrote: I'm not against players putting artificial restrictions on how they want to play the game but I'm against any kind of forced restrictions. After all, that means someone would just mod those restrictions out.

UT2004 was just an example. No restrictions should be added but why game client itself does not assists in teams management / tournament making? In my opinion it should because it is 2017 and people become lazier  monkey besides it would be much more convenient for newcomers to just click "FIND TEAM" and then "JOIN TEAM" or "FIND TOURNAMENTS" and "ADD ME TO THIS TOURNAMENT".

This are so simple and obvious things from the user experience perspective so I just scratching my head why not are they incorporated anywhere. In best case we have some poor matchmaking...
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#53
Well, servers runs different configs and there are very few people who are online at the same time so there is almost no one to match with.
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#54
(10-12-2017, 01:37 PM)Lyberta Wrote: Well, servers runs different configs and there are very few people who are online at the same time so there is almost no one to match with.

That is the point, game should also assist players in finding others. Instead of going straight  into the game/ launching some game launcher you have to open IRC/<smth other> first and find if you can play with smb. Instead of joining some of the available tournaments you have to dig some forums to find out them. It takes some time and annoying.
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#55
(10-12-2017, 06:20 AM)Rvach Wrote:
(10-11-2017, 05:59 PM)Lyberta Wrote: I'm not against players putting artificial restrictions on how they want to play the game but I'm against any kind of forced restrictions. After all, that means someone would just mod those restrictions out.

UT2004 was just an example. No restrictions should be added but why game client itself does not assists in teams management / tournament making? In my opinion it should because it is 2017 and people become lazier  monkey besides it would be much more convenient for newcomers to just click "FIND TEAM" and then "JOIN TEAM" or "FIND TOURNAMENTS" and "ADD ME TO THIS TOURNAMENT".

This are so simple and obvious things from the user experience perspective so I just scratching my head why not are they incorporated anywhere. In best case we have some poor matchmaking...
Assuming you haven't scrapped your in-game currency idea. Suppose that got incorporated and we have xonocoins or whatever to buy players, etc.
Why would I buy a player for a team game when I can just grab a friend for free?
Unless you made it a mandatory interaction to form a team.

Why would we do any of this when we can press spacebar to auto-join a team?
Unless you blocked it or removed that functionality.

Quote:That is the point, game should also assist players in finding others. Instead of going straight  into the game/ launching some game launcher you have to open IRC/<smth other> first and find if you can play with smb. Instead of joining some of the available tournaments you have to dig some forums to find out them. It takes some time and annoying.
That sounds exactly like matchmaking which most modern games will do. The thing is that it requires a large population of players otherwise you would be stuck in queue for a long time (this vs getting 2-3 of your friends to accompany you on a server of your own choice, from your chat client of choice). The developers are/were holding the ethos to finish development before publishing it and advertising. The second, maybe optional thing is not to matchmake such that someone will get stomped all the time, but this also might become an ethical thing where the matchmaking system gives gambling highs of overwhelming victory among unspectacular games, or crushing losses.

You don't need to dig through the forums for tournaments. They're largely one time events and are stickied at the front page.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017
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#56
Going to revive this thread because I can.
I think if Xonotic is to survive, it is necessary that it gets in more distributions. A good place to start would be building it as a Flatpak and as a Snap. That way any distribution including those will have Xonotic.
Next, it needs to be updated. Xonotic was last updated a year ago. That's a long time to wait for an update.
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#57
I am skeptical that building Flatpaks and Snaps of our distribution will make any appreciable dent in our download numbers. It seems to add unnecessary work for extremely little benefit. Let's just take Flatpak as an example. What do I have to do to install a Flatpak on a large distribution like, say, Ubuntu? Five steps by the looks of things, and one of those includes a system restart! Yikes. Let's compare that with our current distribution: a zip file. You download it (1) and extract it (2). Nothing further is needed!

Perhaps I'm being unfair to include "fixed cost" steps like installing the Flatpak system itself on the host, but I don't think so. It doesn't appear to be included out-of-the-box for many distributions, meaning people would have to go the extra mile just to have it available.

Flatpaks would be cool to have, but let's not pretend that NOT having it is causing us real damage. We've had near zero requests for them.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#58
(05-31-2018, 05:10 PM)Antibody Wrote: and one of those includes a system restart!

Wow, somebody must have been really high to design that.
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#59
(05-31-2018, 05:10 PM)Antibody Wrote: I am skeptical that building Flatpaks and Snaps of our distribution will make any appreciable dent in our download numbers. It seems to add unnecessary work for extremely little benefit. Let's just take Flatpak as an example. What do I have to do to install a Flatpak on a large distribution like, say, Ubuntu? Five steps by the looks of things, and one of those includes a system restart! Yikes. Let's compare that with our current distribution: a zip file. You download it (1) and extract it (2). Nothing further is needed!

Yeah, I agreee that getting it in Debian would have more impact, and that extracting a zip is more practical, but I would imagine that getting Xonotic on Flathub or the Snap store would be much easier than getting it in Debian. And that would give Xonotic free publicity. If it's the goal to get Xonotic to more people, Flatpak or Snap would be a good start, and we could simultaneously continue to work on getting it in Debian.
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#60
Getting Xon in Debian has issues...

1. The d0-blind-id crypt lib needs to be split off and packaged if the package is to be any good. think the license might need clarifying, otherwise it could end up in non-free, which would place additional restrictions on the game. Making it optional or not building against it (like Fedora seems to have done) is problematic in that no stats will work and some servers might not talk to you if they specify it's required (think I've seen this before). There's been some work on packaging it by the Debian Games team, but it stalled ages ago (last commit is 5 yrs ago - https://salsa.debian.org/games-team/unfi...0-blind-id ). Cloning that repo and merging in the changes from the current Xon branch (which has some useful bug fixes - https://gitlab.com/xonotic/d0_blind_id ) would of course be a good start.

Note: Don't just pull the 'debian' dir into master on our repo. Make it a separate repo or a 'debian package' branch on ours. Putting it in master would cause issues later if it was to be picked up by Debian, as they usually prefer full control without being mandated from upstream.

2. Debian won't update programs to major versions in stable just because a new version is out. For example: Say 0.8.2 gets into Debian. Then we release 0.9.0 which has major code changes (maybe even a new engine). That won't make it into a Debian stable release until the next release comes out. No updating what is currently in there. Debian back-port bug fixes where possible. There used to be a repo just for this (the volatile repo) but that isn't around any more. The way around this is to run your own private repo, but then you don't get all of Debian's QA work and cross-building efforts.
You might be able to get into unstable, but due to the issues around versions, you probably won't be able to get it into testing (as that's the precursor for stable). This also means it won't get into backports. As it'll only be in unstable though, unless you host a copy of the files built against stable and testing in a private repo, you're NOT going to get much coverage.

Note: Firefox, due to it's market share, is pretty much the ONLY exception to this rule that Debian allows re: Version updates in stable. Chrome got around this by making everyone install it from their own private repo.

3. Currently, apart from having to split d0-blind-id out, there's a bunch of other tools that probably need to be broken out into their own packages, or need to be improved to allow the xonotic versions to replace the default ones (eg: q3map2 and all the radiant tools, which I know has gotten a lot of love lately from dev-land in this direction). Getting these tools as the accepted upstream branches to the Debian packages (either by getting all the xon patches merged upstream or replacing the upstream) is probably the first goal of getting Xon's work into Debian. This gives the Xon devs some cred out there, which can help Re: packaging later down the line.

There's probably other issues, but they're the big 3 that stand out IMO.
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