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Artstyle Development

#26
When I play this kind of games I see characters moving at really high speeds, jumping endlessly, getting damage from massive weapons .. so the last thing I will think is that those players are human, despite of how much armor they wear. They might be mutants, cyborgs, robots, aliens .. but .. do we care about that?

Look at QuakeLive, a supposedly successful game, they have all sort of different models and it doesn't feel weird or at least people don't complain about that. Or for a closer example, I've joined many Nexuiz servers that have their own pool of player models, one with a big fox head, a cow, etc and there was people actually using these models.

I think most of us are worried about the quality of models, not art consistency. I'm not saying that art consistency is not important, I think it'd be better to focus on having a streamlined and documented process for creating models, having standards like what Oblivion said about the size of bounding boxes, distribution of colours, etc.
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#27
(03-24-2010, 03:32 PM)mand1nga Wrote: When I play this kind of games I see characters moving at really high speeds, jumping endlessly, getting damage from massive weapons .. so the last thing I will think is that those players are human, despite of how much armor they wear. They might be mutants, cyborgs, robots, aliens .. but .. do we care about that?

Look at QuakeLive, a supposedly successful game, they have all sort of different models and it doesn't feel weird or at least people don't complain about that. Or for a closer example, I've joined many Nexuiz servers that have their own pool of player models, one with a big fox head, a cow, etc and there was people actually using these models.

I think most of us are worried about the quality of models, not art consistency. I'm not saying that art consistency is not important, I think it'd be better to focus on having a streamlined and documented process for creating models, having standards like what Oblivion said about the size of bounding boxes, distribution of colours, etc.

I think that health can basically be adrenaline and instant healing drugs (which would explain how they can take so much hell and move so fast) while armor serves as an overshield that flashes or sparks whenever a player is taking damage. An animation (such as player leaping off of a different foot each time they jump) and/or special effect (like neon sparks) can be used when players are bunnyhopping to make it more believable.
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#28
1) morphed had a really great idea last night. I see he hasn't posted it yet. Basically his idea was to create base body meshes (~3 or so), animate those and texture them as fit.

THEN we leave skeletsl nodes on specific parts of the model where we attach additional body parts; including shoulder armor, forearm armor, chest armor, groin armor, upper leg armor, lower leg armor, boots/shoes, backpacks, etc.

That would mean, modelers would only have to design the armor around the body mesh, as only the body itself will be animated while stuff can just be attached to it (like guns). It simplifies matters at the cost of limiting what you can do, at the same time upping the customizability options of individual player massively.

This however requires significant code support and UI changes and I'm not sure if everyone wants that.

2) There is a second option however: To create standard basemeshes for male and female models at a specified polycount limit (say 3k to 4k) and offer that as download to new player model designers so they can easily create new players from modifying it and adding new parts, armor, equipment, and a head to it. This would be a great deal more customizable than the previous idea while still remaining consistent to a specific bodytype. It doesn't however really offer anything else, it's still the same old modeling/texturing but just with a provided guide.

So... what do you guys think?

On other points:
a) yes we need a setting, not exactly a story, a setting would do just fine. We need to define the current timeframe, the conditions of the world, and perhaps define basic unifying techs (just define, no need to actually explain scientifically how it works, that would destroy plausibility more than help it, my suggestion would be the enhanced 'glowy' eyes).

b) those faction ideas are really good cuinnton.

c) i also don't think that we need to constrain maps to fit a certain 'look'. We can instead offer those scifi maps in the campaign if we have one, and offer the rest for multiplayer which doesn't exactly require the maps to be consistent.

d) I sketched out some concepts last night. basically my idea for a certain 'look' was to exaggerate the extremities. That is - the forearms and the lower legs/foot are noticeably larger than normal. While the rest of the body is elongated and lean.

Think of the characters in Unreal Tournament 3 where the hands and legs are massively exaggerated. My idea is similar but without making the body bulky too.

I would also like to encourage people to post pictures of their preferred bodytypes. Ranging from the heavily armored starcraft marines to cartoony platformers to realistic proportions (like Ignis).
(03-24-2010, 03:32 PM)mand1nga Wrote: When I play this kind of games I see characters moving at really high speeds, jumping endlessly, getting damage from massive weapons .. so the last thing I will think is that those players are human, despite of how much armor they wear. They might be mutants, cyborgs, robots, aliens .. but .. do we care about that?

Look at QuakeLive, a supposedly successful game, they have all sort of different models and it doesn't feel weird or at least people don't complain about that. Or for a closer example, I've joined many Nexuiz servers that have their own pool of player models, one with a big fox head, a cow, etc and there was people actually using these models.

I think most of us are worried about the quality of models, not art consistency. I'm not saying that art consistency is not important, I think it'd be better to focus on having a streamlined and documented process for creating models, having standards like what Oblivion said about the size of bounding boxes, distribution of colours, etc.

True. Consistent quality is more important. We need to set a benchmark first.

BUT, I still argue that bodytypes is essential. Quakelive had the same problem really: the female models are significantly harder to see than the male ones (even if they had the same hitbox size).

Believe me, even if we constrain size and proportions, there is still a LOT you can do to customize it. We're not limiting the imagination but the balance factor, because it really has to be balanced unless the others are training bots or NPC's.
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#29
I would like to point out that I was merely scientifically explaining the technologies in the game to extrapolate a date, which i declared to be around 2500. The reason for that date was, if it was any later in time, then intergalactic space travel would be possible, and you be more likely to bump in to aliens not humanoid at all. I also extrapolated the factions from the technology.

I'm glad you like the 4 faction idea. I think your black haired woman and Ignis would make great genetically superior humans as I described. Umbra would make a great female cyborg.

If it would be helpful I could make 4 logos for each faction?
There's nothing better than getting off you butt and contributing to a community. There is no excuse when it comes to computers. Spend a little of you playing time, giving back Smile
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#30
Tzork and I discussed factions as well. It would require some additional coding but nothing to extravagant. Im definitely on board the factions idea
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#31
Good idea with the logos for factions. They could be placed somewhere on the model also.
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#32
So instead of color vs color we will have factions? And if so, will the faction logos be on the maps?
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#33
I don't think the colors have anything to do with the factions. Also, there is no connection between factions and maps (in my opinion).
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#34
(03-25-2010, 11:48 AM)Aleator Wrote: I don't think the colors have anything to do with the factions. Also, there is no connection between factions and maps (in my opinion).

You mean now or in the future?
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#35
I mean now and in the future. Just think about it, there could be different teams for every faction, thus different colors within one faction.
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#36
(03-25-2010, 01:06 PM)Aleator Wrote: I mean now and in the future. Just think about it, there could be different teams for every faction, thus different colors within one faction.

Indeed, we shouldn't limit ourselves to only 4 major factions.

EDIT: I'm also working on a setting / factions, I'll probably have the proposal ready tomorow and we'll see how it goes Smile
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#37
I like the idea of "hardpoints" on models. Definitely something to consider in the future.

Getting the style absolutely right and unified of all player models form the start is *not* necessary, not even that high prio. In a commercial product (that would be expected to be finished, more or less, when released) it would; but a community driven gpl project is a fundamentally different beast, one that evolves over time. At this point any positive change is better then no change.. and its hard to get the player models worse then the ones from nexuiz Tongue

Just to be clear: "factions" would require core change and is unlikely to happen _right now_.
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#38
I think that there should be lots more fullbright on the model than 15-20%. Something like 80-100%.
Also, about factions. Factions themselves aren't a bad idea, but let's not get into tremulous style "Faction A uses these guns, faction B uses these." It's a balance nightmare.
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#39
(03-25-2010, 06:16 PM)Roanoke Wrote: I think that there should be lots more fullbright on the model than 15-20%. Something like 80-100%.
Also, about factions. Factions themselves aren't a bad idea, but let's not get into tremulous style "Faction A uses these guns, faction B uses these." It's a balance nightmare.

80-100% full bright texture cover for default skins is plain stupid. thats like walking light-bulbs.
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#40
It also pretty much ruins the point of having high quality models, especially since light has a big roll in how it looks.
Stickied
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#41
(03-25-2010, 06:47 PM)tZork Wrote:
(03-25-2010, 06:16 PM)Roanoke Wrote: I think that there should be lots more fullbright on the model than 15-20%. Something like 80-100%.
Also, about factions. Factions themselves aren't a bad idea, but let's not get into tremulous style "Faction A uses these guns, faction B uses these." It's a balance nightmare.

80-100% full bright texture cover for default skins is plain stupid. thats like walking light-bulbs.

Totally agree with that.
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#42
(03-25-2010, 06:47 PM)tZork Wrote:
(03-25-2010, 06:16 PM)Roanoke Wrote: I think that there should be lots more fullbright on the model than 15-20%. Something like 80-100%.
Also, about factions. Factions themselves aren't a bad idea, but let's not get into tremulous style "Faction A uses these guns, faction B uses these." It's a balance nightmare.

80-100% full bright texture cover for default skins is plain stupid. thats like walking light-bulbs.
Yay! Exactly!
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#43
(03-25-2010, 11:56 PM)The mysterious Mr. 4m Wrote:
(03-25-2010, 06:47 PM)tZork Wrote:
(03-25-2010, 06:16 PM)Roanoke Wrote: I think that there should be lots more fullbright on the model than 15-20%. Something like 80-100%.
Also, about factions. Factions themselves aren't a bad idea, but let's not get into tremulous style "Faction A uses these guns, faction B uses these." It's a balance nightmare.

80-100% full bright texture cover for default skins is plain stupid. thats like walking light-bulbs.
Yay! Exactly!

True that.
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#44
What can I say. Oblivion's points are good as many has agreed with. I'm not one to go against that either.
Just keep in mind, to not remove the robots. Smile They are my favorite type. Though, no matter what kind of creature models are, they can even be mushrooms as long as they conform to the proportions. It's not the types that are the issue, as stated. Oh and on that note, keep in mind that females can be fat chicks as well. -_^ Not all females are thin thin. Not many games have that, hehe.

So basically, we're waiting for a setting to be created before anything can be decided. Good deal. Keeping an eye out on this thread.
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Fix the avatar size limit please! I want my avatar gifs back! DISCRIMINATION!
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#45
Here's my proposal for a setting:

In constant pursuit of expansion and exploration, always reaching for the stars, Man forgot where he came from. The place once called home, Gaia, is now a myth, an old legend. Long lost is now the origin of the common race.

Xonotic takes place sometime in 22nd century, in a part of the galaxy known as [nifty name for it]. It’s a collection of various populated star systems and clusters in contact with one another. Interstellar travel is possible. Majority of the known races have similar humanoid body features, and are carbon-based lifeforms. Despite the differences and genetic variations, it’s impossible to deny their common roots. Many races claim to be the prototype, the one race out of which all others evolved, though it’s safe to assume this title belongs to [standard humans] as they are the only ones who always had a very conservative view on aggressive genetic manipulations.



[standard humans]
Federation of “planet-states”, which have certain autonomy and sovereignty over their home planets (government type and such) but conform to federation’s laws and rules of operation when dealing with stuff beyond their planet’s surface. These planets can be Republics, Houses (think Dune), Corporation governments etc. The only thing the Federation doesn’t accept is extreme authoritative and oppressive governments. The representatives of the planets form a ruling body that decides on larger and more important political matters. Mostly populated by common humans, there are also androids and cyborgs, which are strictly separated in their status compared to humans. A good place for all the human races and smaller variations you would wish to include.

Planet scene:
[Image: Capital_of_Korah.jpg]

Warrior:
[Image: marine.jpg]



[caste, black hole people]
They believe they were formed by a (relativistic) jet of pure transcendence from a black hole, enveloping/hitting their home planet, forming the first man from the planet’s core itself. From a dead lump of molten rock, to a cradle of black fertility.

Thus Caste Father swam through the molten mantle, forced himself through the crust, to rise before his Black Sun maker.

They see all other races as impurities, denying all and any ancestral connections between them and the rest. But even they cannot deny economic, galactopolitical and diplomatic “forces” which encompass and affect the known star systems. This is why they don’t wage an all-out war against everyone else. (and despite their egotrip on themselves, they aren’t THAT strong to simply eradicate everyone else).

In reality they were created from common humans through intense genetic manipulations, where individuals are adapted to living in their castes. Governed by the rulling body of high priests, advised by the caste called Hunters of Knowledge (research and genetic manipulations). Below them are the working caste, the warrior caste and the dead caste (they take care of the dead). They are not a part of the [standard humans] federation. Their planet is an ocre dirt rock circling an orange star (red giant wannabe). In the proximity of a few (5-20) light years is also a black hole.

Planet scene:
[Image: 775_large.jpg]
[Image: Orange%20desert.jpg]

Warrior (ignore the sword):
[Image: wasteland_knight.jpg]



[android/cyborg factory planet]
It’s a peculiar planet in a remote part of the habitated star cluster. The whole planet is a computerized entity, a sort of mechanical organism. All atempts to conquer or explore it up close it have failed. The planet boosts a highly sophisticated and advanced defence system and tolerates no intrusions whithin the 0,2 light year radius. Interestingly, with such advanced weapons technology, it could cause major havoc, but nothing ever comes from the planet, apart from an exceptional cigare-shaped capsule, carying a single Warrior-Robotics, skilled in Xonotic! combat.

Some speculate the planet waits for its master to return and issue an assault command, others claim it’s already in a warstate, but still building an army in its underground mechanical bowels, to one day take over the known universe. The planet is situated between a pair of stars, directly in their gravitational centre. Style is bright gold and platinum, the whole planet is covered by monolothic structures and covered by a material metallic in appearance. Interestingly, the Warrior-Robotics are shaped as humanoids. Does this speak of the creators of the planet, creations shaped after their masters? Or is this simply a psychological test by the planet-entity, to see how other races react - a scout before the invasion?

Planet scene:
[Image: relicectscomp1.jpg]

Warrior-Robotics:
[Image: bot001%20copy01.jpg]



[aliens]
Firstly, they don’t want to conquer all as most aliens do. Perhaps hermaphrodites? Or perhaps they have many ways of reproduction, similar to fungi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungus#Reproduction They have some foreign social order, irregular sleep patterns (other than hibernating they don’t sleep) and live up to 500 years. Through their lifetime they go through many phases. Between each phase they hibernate for 4-7 years until they reach another level of maturity, or even regress to a former level of maturity. Why, is unknown to human researchers. Unlike [caste, black hole people], different maturity levels don’t mean individuals fit into specific castes.

They come in various shapes and sizes, but the most interesting fact is that they can mature in a humanoid form if they wish so. And this only happens where there is contact with human civilization. If one would fly to the centre of their civilization, who knows what alien shapes he would see there. And they are definitelly not carbon-based, more like nitrogen-based (as the aliens in the movie Evolution).

Alien warrior:
[Image: feb0db4c705ef855.jpg]

Possible skin colours:
[Image: Sea_Slug3116773908ef31eee188.jpg]
[Image: seaslug.jpg]
[Image: 075421.jpg]




[free people of the nebula ring]
Free space to add other factions you think would be cool, but don’t fit anywhere else. But these are minor factions. Nomads sailing on solar winds, asteroid riders, living in orbits around giant comets, lost societies searching for meaning in psychedelic nebulae, industrial opportunists claiming monopolies over white dwarf systems. Anything goes.
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#46
Lamoot I like your concept. Whoever is making models please make sure there is a hand and atleast five fingers like a human. It just looks odd when an alien with three fingers can hold the rocketlauncher or nex.
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#47
The concepts are not my work, nor are they usable (except the Warrior-Robotics) for Xonotic needs. I included them simply to give a better idea of how I imagine things to look. For inspiration, not to be modelled.
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#48
I like that the aliens aren't evil per se. I'd also like to propose that the aliens (since they are more on the evolved side) that they don't have economics in order like money. They have a resource based economy instead, meaning they value goods instead of money.

Btw, how come the Warrior robotics is usable? Did you draw it?
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ai am ai.

Fix the avatar size limit please! I want my avatar gifs back! DISCRIMINATION!
Also, change my name to 'ai', these forums sucks which can't have 2 letters in the nick!
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#49
Lamoot: I wasn't talking about the concept art. I just meant the idea.
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#50
Warrior Robotics is a concept from OpenGameArt.org released under GPL 2.0 and 3.0 http://opengameart.org/content/assassin-bot

Didn't give that much thought to aliens and their economics. Perhaps wikipedia can give us some inspiration if we really want to go that far Smile http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

or other.
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