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Artstyle Development

#51
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but my girlfriend is rushing me to leave and I don't have time to catch up on the thread.

Isn't it important that we decide on a storyline for Xonotic before we get into a detailed set of rules for the art style?

For example, maybe we decide that the Xonotic world is a post-nuclear war human race. Well most of the mapping would need to be post-nuclear war looking maps. Also, the player models would somewhat be affected also.

Or, another example would be that Xonotic is after the human vs robot war and there are still stragglers battling it out in the arena. Well that would describe the type of futuristic maps and player model artistic style as well.
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#52
Xonotic can be a place where militaries can, in a "civil" (lol) fashion frag the shit out of each other without worrying about starting a war or suffering casualties (see http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=114 ). They could be armies looking for bragging rights, random mercenaries looking for fame, or just crazies out to raise some hell. Xonotic could be setup to provide a proving ground that eliminates the risk of fighters actually getting killed and cities/populations from being destroyed.
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#53
I love Lamoot's ideas.

The setting is fundamentally different from Cuinnton's earlier setting in one crucial factor: Lamoot's is set way farther into the future.

IMO, I'll take Lamoot's storyline. It leaves just the sort of room for crazy maps and crazy models (and yes, the explanation on aliens is good as it is, I will accept having aliens then Wink ) while still maintaining balance with the restriction on anthropomorphism. The limit on imagination is far lesser. We can merge the other ideas into this easily, and start fleshing out each faction slowly.

Again though, I would reiterate that the concepts he posted are only meant to show the atmosphere and the 'feel' of each faction, if you are modeling or making a map, please do not copy those verbatim. And no, definitely don't want the Tremulous style of factions. Factions should only be an artistic and story guide (as a means of setting a semi-artstyle within each faction), not relevant to gameplay at all (except perhaps if we make a single player campaign).

Lee's ideas on the mechanics of the maps themselves is also great. I'd like to propose just one thing: the addition of an overseer/creator race that hosts these 'games', Since some of those factions look like they don't communicate with the other galactic races at all. It could be a sort of 'forced' competition, with the players being demanded from each faction to participate. There could actually still be room for real wars ongoing in the 'real world', while these events are hosted (e.g. you can say that the humans and the robots are at war etc. leading to more hostility on the battlefield).

This mysterious overseer race could be the origin of the name 'Xonotic'. They'd be a sort of immortal mind collective of species that have passed beyond the physical realm, becoming beings of pure energy and integrating themselves into the fabric of the universe itself. They could be called 'Xons', 'Xonos' or something. Their intentions are unclear, but the factions has to send representatives through portals in ancient Xonos artifacts in the hope that there could be a reward in the end. Players who pass through the artifacts become 'xonotics', temporarily immortal, thus explaining the phoenix symbolism.

Anyway we should start wrapping it up soon. Anyone feel up to finalizing the storyline concepts? We could then begin basing the art development around this. tZork had a point, there's no sense in restricting GPL art in the way I had originally planned. So instead, we just make a solid story backbone and base everything from there (while still keeping basic restrictions like the requirement for glow colors, size, etc.). Smile
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#54
Cool to hear you like it Smile One of my goals was to allow enough freedom for people to add their own factions. Not only para-military groups or hidden small factions, but whole planets and societies as well if they wish so. And as you mention it, to allow all sorts of crazy map and player designs.

Quote:Lee's ideas on the mechanics of the maps themselves is also great. I'd like to propose just one thing: the addition of an overseer/creator race that hosts these 'games', Since some of those factions look like they don't communicate with the other galactic races at all. It could be a sort of 'forced' competition, with the players being demanded from each faction to participate. There could actually still be room for real wars ongoing in the 'real world', while these events are hosted (e.g. you can say that the humans and the robots are at war etc. leading to more hostility on the battlefield).

I like the idea of factions being forced to participate in this combat. But I imagine there would be also a lot of space cowboys willing to participate on their own. It would fit to include a backstory of how a few planets didn't want to participate back then and went completely missing. Not just destroyed and such, but whole planets disappearing. IMO such event speak well enough of the power of the transcendent race on their own and leaves for player speculation. The more we define and explain things, the less mysterious the race will become.

OR

Perhaps a sort of Xonotic olympics, where each faction sends its best to prove themselves in combat arena and bring glory to their faction. Sort of like the ancient Greek. Except organized every 20 minutes Tongue and not 4 years.

Quote:Anyway we should start wrapping it up soon. Anyone feel up to finalizing the storyline concepts?

Any particular tasks that need to be done? Or in what way should the final setting/story be like?
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#55
A wiki friendly version would be nice. And don't include 'spoilers' (like your explanation of the real origins of the black hole people). It's better to leave those plot devices hanging for now (another example is the real identity of the beings behind the competitions or their reasons).

I'd also like to hear the thoughts on everybody first before we start writing the wiki introductions and stuff. I'd like to integrate the Xonos race idea on the introduction with parts of explanations from Lee Stricklin's ideas and the 'forced' aspect of it.

Factions should be suptopics in the wiki and should include descriptions on their general appearance. It's okay to leave those blank for now while we work on their player models first (descriptions would then follow from the working player models). In fact, factions should probably be temporary for now until we can populate each with the appropriate player models, only then will they become 'official'.

Anyway, ayes or nays from everybody first please. When everybody's happy with it, we can begin writing it all down.

Again, note that this will be very important to the game itself. What we decide now will become the basis for future developers. So participate everybody please, particularly if you have violent objections Tongue
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#56
Doesn't sound that hard to do. I'll put it on my mental ToDo list. I agree more people should give their opinion whether they agree with such a setting.
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#57
Just to chime in, I really like where this is going (and not only because it's finally going somewhere). Even if it isn't finalized, it might do good to put this on a wiki ASAP so people don't have to sift through the entire thread to get up to speed.
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#58
I don't like the 'forced competition' that the Xonos (or whatever they will be called) install on beings and then destroy the planets that doesn't agree to that. I have a very hard time believing that beings like those high up things which are fabric of the universe itself would behave that way.

I also don't I like the 'competition for display of power'. Meaning, this kind of thing has been done to death. UT mainly but movies and even Naruto has the exact same thing. It gets boring. Instead what I would propose is that there is a competition, but to gain something powerful or something. Like the winner gets the ultra rare or one of a kind <insertWhateverHere>, which would do <insertWhateverHere>.

That way factions would decide for themselves if they wanted to participate or not. The universe is big, this would also explain why there aren't tons and tons of other factions fighting in this competition; because they aren't interested in the winning prize. Even if that prize would be something that would change the laws of physics for the entire universe or whatever.
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#59
Heh, what about a wishgranter thing a la Stalker/Twisted Metal? That was what I actually suggested, that factions were playing simply because these tournaments were mysterious enough, and has a hazy promise of a reward, though they don't know what exactly.

Humans could have factions playing to find out where Earth was, others would have motives for gaining immortality, cultists would want to join the 'sublimated' (to use terminology by Iain M. Banks' Culture series) overlords, others want to impose their religion on everybody else, mercs would do it for the money, adventurers for the fame, etc. Could be an artifact of some kind or the other, accessible through ancient 'gateways' which teleports them into the 'servers' heh.

Either way, not really that important to the gameplay tho. What's more important is setting down the level of technology (we wouldn't want a 20th century shotgun in Xonotic, or 20th century kevlar for that matter) and individual artstyles for each faction.

Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but I think aliens should be treated in the same way as humans. i.e. not monolithic. There should be other alien species as well with different origins.
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#60
(03-26-2010, 11:31 PM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Xonotic can be a place where militaries can, in a "civil" (lol) fashion frag the shit out of each other without worrying about starting a war or suffering casualties (see http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=114 ). They could be armies looking for bragging rights, random mercenaries looking for fame, or just crazies out to raise some hell. Xonotic could be setup to provide a proving ground that eliminates the risk of fighters actually getting killed and cities/populations from being destroyed.

This sounds quite similar to the story behind Illfonic's Nexuiz Undecided
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#61
It's not that original, that's EXACTLY what the anime Naruto is about, and it has existed for years. Which is why I disagree with such a plot.
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Fix the avatar size limit please! I want my avatar gifs back! DISCRIMINATION!
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#62
Any other suggestions then? We are of course, not required to explain why CTF happens or why DM for that matter.

We could instead devote the story to the yet-to-be-made campaign mode, while the CTF, etc. are... just there. As a supplement. Even if they actually are THE major part of the game.
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#63
Lightbulb 
I like your idea(s) Oblivion - let say that some galactic civilisation reached the limit of technology progress. It has nothing to do more in this life than just entertain themselves. So they organised a tournament and the prize for the winner is that they do whatever he/she wants (excluding some really stupid things of corse).
They watch all the different species from the universe fight each other and they have fun Smile

It may have some philosophical idea behind it: for example what would be the winner's wish?
And: what is the limit of technology? That would also be a nice explanation for teleporters / warpozones and such.

The hosts of the tournament would build/find and turn into arenas a lot of strange locations. No limits for mappers here. They could even make entire matches be played in a virtual reality. Or maybe all?

Apart from that idea i think that the mechanism of automatic health regenatation that we saw in Nexuiz is an effect of healing devices that have been closesly merged with fighter's body. And as he/she grabs a "health" during the match, he's loading his healing devices with additional fuel, so they rise his vitality. What do you think about making all healing pickups work with some decay? It seems stupid that you just have to touch a red thing and your health is being increased by 100. Let it be raising say 25 hp/second. "Last second rescue" situation when making it to the megahealth with your hp = 1 makes you <zzzap!> instantly reborn is silly and could also be annoying for the chasers Big Grin Health that is being restored with some decay is more realistic I'd say. And also more exciting, cos you have to still take cover and wait until your health pickup makes it's job when you are on fire. What do you think about that?
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#64
Quote:We could instead devote the story to the yet-to-be-made campaign mode, while the CTF, etc. are... just there. As a supplement. Even if they actually are THE major part of the game.

+1

KISS principle, it doesn't complicate and the story fits more into the campaign.
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#65
(03-25-2010, 06:47 PM)tZork Wrote: 80-100% full bright texture cover for default skins is plain stupid. thats like walking light-bulbs.
Apologies for going back so far, but I thought this needed an answer.

Oblivion explained this to me on IRC, and I suggested two fullbright covers - one for visibilty and one for textures. I, personally, like fighting with "lightbulbs", but in other scenarios textures with just a bit of fullbright would look nicer.

Unfa, I liked your ideas until you got to the slow health pickups part. I don't like that at all.
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#66
Quote:This mysterious overseer race could be the origin of the name 'Xonotic'. They'd be a sort of immortal mind collective of species that have passed beyond the physical realm, becoming beings of pure energy and integrating themselves into the fabric of the universe itself. They could be called 'Xons', 'Xonos' or something. Their intentions are unclear, but the factions has to send representatives through portals in ancient Xonos artifacts in the hope that there could be a reward in the end. Players who pass through the artifacts become 'xonotics', temporarily immortal, thus explaining the phoenix symbolism.

Anyway we should start wrapping it up soon. Anyone feel up to finalizing the storyline concepts? We could then begin basing the art development around this. tZork had a point, there's no sense in restricting GPL art in the way I had originally planned. So instead, we just make a solid story backbone and base everything from there (while still keeping basic restrictions like the requirement for glow colors, size, etc.). Smile

Agree with this completely, very similar to 2001 space Odyssey series with the Monoliths as there physical observers of all living organisms in the universe.

Although please say aware from the theme of glorified science such as this Tongue
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68I0kMad3h0


I think realism should be the target opposed to arcade, which offers much more intrigue. As long as we keep the game with in the Type 1 transitioning to the Type 2 civilization I'm happy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdILmgJGuvw

I don't agree with a 'GOD' race allowing its life under observation to fight in tournaments suggested by unfa. It seem like a frivolous waste of time in retrospect to an omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence civilization. Then again theirs the old argument that we cannot comprehend what a 'GOD' can think, which is a fairly half handed argument I think. I therefor should be kept into the realms of war in isolated locations. But doesn't matter for now, I like the ideas this thread has arrived to. Smile

So 4 'guide' factions for now of humans, aliens, cyborgs, and robots each with 3 models? I will get started on some logos.
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#67
Here's my take on a setting/backstory for Xonotic. It's somewhat like the one posted by Lamoot, but different, and explains some of the origins as well.

Quantum Entanglement plays a vital role in the technology behind the story. If it doesn't actually work that way, then, so what.

Origins and Setting
In 2051 the first humans land on Mars. After a prolonged excavation procedure, ruins with ancient writings on them get are found, extracted, and analyzed. Our first attempts at analysis of the writings were unsuccessfull. All we could decipher was the, perhaps 'titling' word; 'Xenos'.

2076 marked the first inter-system travel. Our biological prowess has advanced to the point where we could keep people in a state of suspended animation for prolonged periods of time. Using genetic engineering we are also able to develop a system of virii, bacteria and medicines to promote instant healing and rebuild those on the brink of death.

By 2124 our knowledge of Quantum mechanics has advanced to sufficient levels to develop technologies using quantum entanglement to develop sophisticated communication devices with zero delay between the systems.
By 2129 we had atomic assemblers, machines that can dissassemble and rebuild atoms and molecules into different ones.
We can turn lead into gold.
By 2133 we were able to QECs and Atomic Assemblers for instant transportation.

2166 was the year of the first sentient computer. After being hooked up to a general knowledge repository, it reportedly said something to the effect of "Crap, this is not going to turn out well" and turned itself off. All attempts to revive it were unsuccessful. All androids made after that had some filters built in to prevent spontaneous disconnection.

First contact was 2178. After the basic communications (prime numbers, Fibonacci sequence, etc) and a mathematical language was set up, proper communication was possible. Over the following years, we discovered many odd things about the first contact aliens. First of all they called themselves 'Humans'. We found that they were very similar to us. Not only did they call them selves by the same name, but they're world was very similar to ours, 24 hour day, 365 days a year. The sun was about the same size and age as ours. They have an oxygen and nitrogen atmosphere. In fact, their entire genetic structure is nearly exactly the same as ours.
After nearly 22 years of highly successful talks and discussions, we decided to sync the calendars. December 29th 11:59, about to go into FC1. As the clock ticks over, the entire race disappears.


48 years later, the Androids rebel. Earth is destroyed. After the Great Computer War, the Androids declare independence and bugger off to somewhere else in the galaxy.

Over the next 150 years we meet other hominid aliens. All of them have very similar stories. They all have about a 24 hour day, 365 days a year. All breath nitrogen-oxygen atmospheres. Only very little variations, like being slightly taller, slightly more muscular etc. All of us are at similar technology levels, but it seems that humans are rather more intelligent than the other hominids. All the hominids are capable of producing offspring together.

It is decided between the races, that, as war would be a stupid idea, it'd be best to join into a singular union. The Hominid Federation is formed. We started searching for a common ground. We scanned for uninhabited clusters, and eventually found a ring of 7 systems with 42 planets deemed inhabitable by most of us, and several others rich in resources

This cluster was deemed the Cradle.


Story of the name:
Many, many people support that all the hominids were engineered. All our homeworlds, systems, our very genetics are so similar that it must have been engineered. Every hominid culture has at least one religion that has an omnipotent creator. Every hominid culture has found a stone, with nearly exactly the same text, and a heading which works out to be 'Strangers'. English has become a dominant language, but other words have shown through. The combination of languages, including Chinese, Malaysian, Greek, and a whole bunch of the other hominid languages, comes out with 'Xono', for stranger.

Many people believe that this creator species, or whatever it is, engineered us for a reason.
They call themselves the followers of the Xonotic.


Possible Premise for the campaign:
Aliens attack. Same aliens that killed the First Contact Hominids.
They have launched an attack on various hominid homeworlds. They have QE denaturing devices, preventing us from communicating or teleporing interstellarly, but local devices still work.

Analysis of the current state of the population and philosophies of the Hominid Federation (Factions):

Hominids: Like humans, but rather more varied than most humans (explains any variation for character models). Most are followers of the Xonotic

Sub Faction - HFAF: Hominid Federation Armed Forces. Has various internal groups, such as the Marines, Army, Space Force, etc, but is collectively known as the HFAF.

Dark Galaxy Cult: Believe that the black holes created the hominids, and that they are the enlightened(endarkened?) ones. Worship the darkness, black holes. Occasionally commit acts of terrorism, but nothing too major. Live in the most remote systems. Also do illegal experiments on hominid species and robots.

Androids: We had a Great Android War, and it turns out that so did a lot of other hominid races...

Aliens: Attacked the First Contact Hominids, have QE denaturing equipment, not much more is known. Could they be the creator? The prototype hominid? Rouge hominid/cyborg? Dark Galaxy creations? (This is for other people with real imagination to figure out) Definitely hostile, but their motives are unknown.
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#68
(03-27-2010, 06:40 PM)Roanoke Wrote: Unfa, I liked your ideas until you got to the slow health pickups part. I don't like that at all.
It is just an idea to solve something that was annoying me in 99% of all games Big Grin
Certianly we can make this work really fast like 100 hp/sec but it still would make it way more belivable. i Think.
Let say that a serer would have cvars like this:
healing_auto_delay - how long you must remain unshot for your healing devices to be able to start healing your wounds (sec)
healing_auto_rate - how fast does it go (hp/sec)
healing_delay - how long does it take after you pick up a "health" before it starts affecting your body (sec)
healing_rate - how fast does it heal you then (hp/sec)

(03-28-2010, 01:35 AM)Will Wrote: By 2124 our knowledge of Quantum mechanics has advanced to sufficient levels to develop technologies using quantum entanglement to develop sophisticated communication devices with zero delay between the systems.
By 2129 we had atomic assemblers, machines that can dissassemble and rebuild atoms and molecules into different ones.
We can turn lead into gold.
By 2133 we were able to QECs and Atomic Assemblers for instant transportation.

That seems like a need for being able to transport massive amounts of energy.
Say that respawning is remowing your dead body, turning it into energy and rebuilding from memorised molecular state.
Cloning in this way would require a lot of energy (but it can be gathered from any other piece of matter of equal mass).
Teleporation would be energy of E = mc^2 got from object's matter with information about it's structure being sent to teleportation reciever and there - re-assembled to matter again. All faster than you say "telep..." Smile

As for the "reason for fighting" it got iluminated yesterday in a bath Wink

The little local fights with respawning could be a training for a real war. Maybe some galactic conflict is raising, so our four factions - happy or not - has to prapare for a war. They train each other to get as good as they can. When conflict blows in the battlefield there sometimes will not be respawners in place to immidiatly restore you after you die. A large database in a safe place stores all warrior's molecular profiles for restoration after the war ends. Immortality without a soul.
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#69
Since the forum isn't really a place to look up design decisions etc.:
http://dev.xonotic.org/projects/xonotic/...stic_Style

Discuss on the forum, and push the results to the wiki Smile
If you open new threads to discuss certain sub-aspects, feel free to add a link to the thread on the wiki page.
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#70
I was thinking HFAF Close-Combat training scenarios. That would explain the equipment available and the supply of medicine.
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#71
Unfa, I am still completely and irrevocably against your idea. It just doesn't work out.

Will, that's a great and logical story. There are four factions for four teams (red, blue, pink, yellow), and I think it's the most complete story so far. The HFAF training scenarios are also a good idea.
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#72
Thank you very much, it's nice to know that I still have a working imagination.

I'd say that having a delay before you start to autoheal is a good idea, but not when you pick up a medkit.
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#73
(03-27-2010, 05:34 PM)Lamoot Wrote:
Quote:We could instead devote the story to the yet-to-be-made campaign mode, while the CTF, etc. are... just there. As a supplement. Even if they actually are THE major part of the game.

+1

KISS principle, it doesn't complicate and the story fits more into the campaign.

+2

Its quite possible for the multiplayer to be wholly separate from the plot. Like it is in many other games, it doesn't need to be justified.

I like Lamoots ideas mostly (nice factions) and in terms of Will's I want my aliens to be alien. None of this rehashed human stuff. The chances of a race that similar to us evolving would be slim to bupkiss. Although I realise there are limits on this for the sake of animation etc. such as having them bidepal and a similar build.

We could go the Mass Effect route and have our aliens with stereochemically different amino acids. Hell why not have them silicon based or something? Also instead of communicating by such things as sound/telepathy perhaps they could go by visual and chemical means and have a highly advanced biology. I have a lot of ideas on this particular part that I'll need to write down sometime.

With that in mind we could make them bipedal etc. but still look/sound/feel utterly alien.
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#74
Did I not put something about the us, and all the hominids being engineered by the same person/race/thing?
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#75
I'll re-read tomorrow. Its quite possible I missed something. Yes you were right the potential for that is certainly there.

OK after my re-read I like a lot of the ideas here definately. The only thing I disagree strongly with is that the multiplayer needs to be linked in to the plot. The two shouldn't have influence on each other and we don't need a creator race. Creator races have been done to death in Starcraft, Stargate, Star Trek (sort of) and a multitude of other things.

I think the better thing to do here would perhaps have competition/war start over an abandoned dyson sphere similar to Flying Steel's nexuiz story. Also leaves us some mystery there for the singleplayer. Whos dyson sphere was it? How long has it been there? etc. also we could have an unlockable player character/armour set relating to that for those who complete the singleplayer Tongue

EDIT: Ok heres the draft of what I've written for our aliens. I'm quite welcome to suggestions and revisions. These are just ideas I've had floating about in my head for a while for an alien race in general. I feel it has the potential to be significantly alien but still fit in with enough of the rules. Theres still a fair bit to be done on it as it is.

Sepelio Wrote:The <name> are a physiologically and technologically advanced species from a planet in the <name> sector. Their planet has a somewhat corrosive atmosphere which has shaped their evolution and development as a species. The majority of the technology they possess is biologically based. Ships, weapons, buildings. Almost everything has been grown or secreted by engineered micro organisms. The corrosive atmosphere of their planet makes it very difficult to refine most metals as the rate of corrosion is vastly increased, due to this they place a very high value on noble metals or human manufactured alloys which are corrosion resistant. Any metal they use is likely to have been refined in orbit above their home planet.

Their society itself has a significantly different structure due to the highly adaptable biology of the species. They possess large amounts of DNA which is essentially redundant until 'switched on'. This is done selectively in order to differentiate an individual to fit a more specialised task. Often these are referred to as castes. The warrior caste's mutations for instance include a decentralised nervous system and growth of armour plating with a similar structure to bone but significantly stronger due to the incorporation of various nanostructures. The scientific caste have a number of specialised nerve nodules that serve as effective biological computers.

They have a varying life span mostly based on environmental factors and caste. On their homeplanet due to harsh conditions they can live as little as 40 years but in more favourable conditions such as on Earth up to 300 years. A short life span is often not a problem due to having fungi like reproduction as well as possessing some level of genetic memory allowing the young to mature much faster. This is essential on their spacecraft as rather than putting their species into suspended animation they simply have generational ships.

In appearance the similarities to humans are primarily their similar physique. Two arms, two legs and usually a head. Other than that due to specialised mutation they often vary. In additon they do not communicate much using auditory methods. They communicate using a complex cocktail of secreted chemicals and pheromones as well as areas of skin which change colour and emit light. More recently however upon gaining information from the human genome they have begun to selectively develop auditory methods of communication in certain castes.

Social interactions with other biological races are generally favourable. They have a distinct dislike and distrust of artificial lifeforms however as they do not excrete any pheromones or even have a distinct scent in most cases.
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