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I am a girl, played 283 matchs. Now, I am crying due to sexual harassment.

"A complain button is generally a good idea, the big question though is who the complaints should go to and how we should act on them. Xonotic team has only one power: we can technically put an abusive server's IP on a blocklist. But the server can easily come back under another IP (as a matter of fact, we currently have eight banned servers). It's not like server admins have a contract with us or as if we had any other leverage to make them host a server or not. Other than that, all we control is a list of _featured_ servers, and for those we can of course enforce stricter rules; this list, however, is currently empty." (divVerent)



"If it would have happened on a server I'm moderator on, I would have punished them.

But you have to understand that every server is hosted by individuals. They have their own rules/values. Team Xonotic can not police hundreds of servers. We all do this in our spare time and don't have the infrastructure for such surveillance. If you did not have a good time on a server and the server admin does not want to do anything about it - that is very unfortunate. But there are enough 'good' servers to play on." (Mirio)


I understood where is the real problem. This communauty is not structured to fight sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, racism, inappropriate and disrespectful behaviours and personnal attacks. More generally, it exists more threats like islamism, harassement, or cyberbullying.
We can not complain. We can not punish. There is no rules.
Maybe, you should define some rules and find some ways to apply rules.

(02-24-2021, 03:48 AM)_para Wrote: How about linking the player ID to the players hardwareID or mac address or both? Also having this collected piece of information forced. That could be really effective i think.
The game is open source, so even if we tried and sent this data around (which could very possibly be illegal in Europe), people would have an easy way around it simply by patching this out of the source code they can compile.

Our most problematic troll is CERTAINLY capable of doing that.
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

(02-24-2021, 01:40 PM)LaraCroft Wrote: "even if you threaten to physically kill me." (morosophos)
=> lol ! seriously ?
You did not understand me.
I was just asking that womans and minorities can play Xonotic without being insulted or attacked in their rights with inappropriate politic arguments.
I just asked to be respected and have a moderated chat to prevent abuses.

A moderated chat you can have - every server admin absolutely can moderate the chat on their server, no problem, server admins can kick and mute players. But BECAUSE this is an open source game more popular with rather technically inclined users, so are our trolls, and thus there aren't really any good ways to keep them out.

A fun idea BTW could be having _chat-free_ servers. Would you join such a server? Having a way to disable chat entirely on a server could be interesting, especially for game types without teamplay like Deathmatch.
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

But please dont just stop there, needs even anonymous names and transparent blob player models to help against discrimination.
Also rename command from "kill" to "restart_run" for xdf players, i find it offensive to kill myself, thanks in advance.
[Image: 110074.png]

(02-24-2021, 02:46 PM)LaraCroft Wrote: I understood where is the real problem. This communauty is not structured to fight sexism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, racism, inappropriate and disrespectful behaviours and personnal attacks. More generally, it exists more threats like islamism, harassement, or cyberbullying.
We can not complain. We can not punish. There is no rules.
Maybe, you should define some rules and find some ways to apply rules.

This community is NOT STRUCTURED, period. You got this right.

This software is released under a free software license. Anyone can run it, whether we like it or not, with or without changes to the software.

Anyone can host a server. This too we cannot prevent. The license of third party code we are including DOES NOT EVEN ALLOW US TO.

The one influence we do have is the server list. It's literally the only thing we're actively hosting. We can kick out servers that do not follow some rules, but even they can easily come back in due to the nature of this being open source.

Worse, it is common for server admins to run their servers 24/7, but they're not available to moderate 24/7. Yes, we could create and enforce a rule that servers that are not 24/7 moderated will not be allowed in the server list. Practically though we know this would entirely empty the server list.

There are some other approaches we could take though:
  • What if you had a client side feature to turn off chat entirely?
  • What if we collected player "reputation" based on player ID (via xonstat), and had a client side feature to not show chat by players with less than X reputation? A troll who gets banned and evades the ban will have a new player ID, resetting their reputation to zero.
Both would however break the rather popular Capture The Flag game type, unless we ignore these restrictions for same-team chatting which would defeat the purpose. With a substantial amount of work, we could create a restricted communication mode for team communication that doesn't use freeform chat (e.g. we can already drop waypoints - some team chat messages could be integrated into that).

But even if we did that, due to the game being open source, NOTHING would stop any server admin from just running an unrestricted server. In a way we're not much different from a web browser; we do not control the content displayed therein. You wouldn't complain to Google because there is sexist content in Chrome, so why do you come to us - AND NOT THE SERVER ADMIN - to complain about sexist content on a game server? Google won't block sexist sites from Chrome, neither will Mozilla block them from Firefox.
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

(02-24-2021, 02:56 PM)SEEK-fried Wrote: But please dont just stop there, needs even anonymous names and transparent blob player models to help against discrimination.
Also rename command from "kill" to "restart_run" for xdf players, i find it offensive to kill myself, thanks in advance.

Sure, why not! Wink

We BTW already have a cl_gentle mode that removes references to death from on-screen messages...
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

but the command is still "kill"  Sad  also think about the default bind "nice one" we shouldnt praise violence so bland maybe something like: "nice skills in the use of non-hateful violence"
[Image: 110074.png]

(02-24-2021, 02:11 PM)LaraCroft Wrote: At the moment, we got some new hate topics.

The biggest hater here is you. You barely know the community, yet you have been extremely judgemental and have spat enormous amount of hatred here, both personal (like to mini) and general (like "all men are assholes"). The sexual harassment, you claim to be victim of, doesn't excuse your own hatred.

The command can get a different aliases. Actually, why not. Suggest a name and we could add it as an alias. As a technically inclined user, what about "schedule_respawn"? Wink
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

maybe my english is bad but spawn is also to give birth? so "schedule_respawn" could be offensive to infertile women. so "restart_run" or "restart_round" is better. Also the idea to mark the country of players opens new discrimination possibilities: like those "problem germans" could be insulted with "hi h**ler" or players with stereotypical poor countries could get messages like: "wow that one got a computer"
[Image: 110074.png]

Since I see this building up, I'll try to put it in a nutshell...

Please, this is an open source community where we collaborate/contribute with each other for the development and/or play in the project (a game as we would say). 

We are NOT here for LGBT, sexism, racism, hatred, revenge, political discussions, ...
Believing is power

LegendGuard as someone like you, a protector of the weak and discord, 
that marked for a time every new discord user with your little Spam-reaction to warn us of the ever looming Mikee-threat, you should understand we need even more. 

Also, this is no discussion, I just point out flaws in the actual game, that our heavenly Xonotic Overlordship can fix.

I want to help and want to be a paragon of virtue like some of the core/extended team like those in this thread namely:
  • divVerent with his/her/their new wonderful ideas: 
    What if we collected player "reputation" based on player ID (via xonstat), and had a client side feature to not show chat by players with less than X reputation? 
    divVerent understands we need to sacrifice some newbies to fight for the cause!
  • MrBougo the new hope: 
    He/She/They understands now, we need to be stricter.On one of those teampolls his/her/their moral was to loose (https://xonotic.devfull.de/xonvote:27500/poll/403?) 
    quote:" I trust the voters who know the details of ch4mp's history. As before however, I worry about this being perceived as arbitrary. Making votes public and outlining how and how long the ban will be enforced could help." but now with a new stricter vision there is new hope
  • Antibody the near-zero tolerance guardian (https://xonotic.devfull.de/xonvote:27500/poll/250?)
  • Mario Power to the Rightousness (https://xonotic.devfull.de/xonvote:27500/poll/401?)  quote:"We currently have no action to take against these trolls, as they aren't directly breaking any rules. However, given some of them are splitting the community apart and causing multiple team members (including myself) to consider leaving, there needs to be some power to remove them"

Those persons open their eyes to the truth and redeemed themselves of past failures.
To watch over the misbehaviour of their very own (an extended team member) and didn't even openly condemn these actions like they do now (for our new salvation):
  • Someone that regularly insulted the gaming community on IRC and on public servers
  • Someone that runs malicious code (aimbot) on a public server without consulting the teams or the server admin
  • Someone that used ban evasion
  • Someone that broke even more rules that are now collected (these wonderful comms rules: https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic/-/wik...5Bdraft%5D)

I just want shine like these wonderful examples of virtue.

So my only hope is through complaints and pointers:
  • The electro weapon fires blue balls, that sounds like the symbol of these women-hating boys (incel-culture)
  • The crylink projectiles look like sperm and is so just a male power-fantasy (blowing their loads all over the place)
  • Maybe that one got lost, but so many people are complaining about the too sexualized hurtsounds of some female player character
  • The multiplayer screen has just options for male and female (also why does everyone just say LGBT its LGBTQ+)
I hope I could help and if it's the wrong way to share this, I can start with making Issues on Gitlab on every single point here mentioned.
[Image: 110074.png]

Well, SEEK-fried. I think I understand you what you say.

What I just posted here was to see if this could be stopped and understand to see if they already know what they do...

I don't know if I told you something wasn't correct, but if you believe that I did, it wasn't my intention and I apologize.
Believing is power

SEEK-fried, I partially agree with you only in one point :
"so many people are complaining about the too sexualized hurtsounds of some female player character" (SEEK-fried)
I also thought to notify this problem but I was really too afraid to do because as you can see here, everybody attack me.
I doubt that "so many people" complained but you are right, this is a problem.
However this point is not important. I played with male character to solve the problem but you are right, on Jeff server a lot of people choose female profile and sometimes when several people are shoot, it sounds like a porn orgy.
I disliked this (but not enough to complain) !

This point is really a small detail. The real problems have been explained here.
I am glad to read a list of people who understood it!

> divVerent understands we need to sacrifice some newbies to fight for the cause!

Sorry, but this trolling goes too far. I never said we should sacrifice newbies. In fact, we _won't_.

Fact is, Capture The Flag is an integral part of the game, and _currently_ it requires communication by chat. Before we can do anything to restrict the chat ability of newbies, we need to have an alternate communication system first. There are some ideas of how this could work, but no implementation and maybe there won't be any. After all, if we did this, very likely someone will just run a server without the change, and I bet _that_ will be the popular server then. Then we'll only have fixed the issue on servers with zero players on them.

> hurt sounds

This is sadly a rather hard to solve problem as we no longer have access to the person who recorded the sound samples; basically we would need new recordings of _all_ player sounds to improve this. And people who can do this are rather hard to come by. Contributions appreciated though - after so much time, a new set of sounds - why not?

> The multiplayer screen has just options for male and female

Now I know you were intending to troll, but with this one you're absolutely right. Fun fact, this variable is entirely unused (never sent to any server or other player); I'm all for simply deleting the field.
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud

Sorry, but to take this as a troll, saddens me greatly (also you didn't address other points).
These are real problems like the phallic shape of weapons: 
Upward-thrusting buildings ejaculating into the sky' – do cities have to be so sexist? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign...asculinity
Please this is serious business.  
And LaraCroft this is bigger than you and me, we need to keep the ball rolling, we have the attention now!
[Image: 110074.png]

SEEK-fried

[quote pid='87086' dateline='1614262708']

Sorry, but to take this as a troll, saddens me greatly (also you didn't address other points).
These are real problems like the phallic shape of weapons: 
Upward-thrusting buildings ejaculating into the sky' – do cities have to be so sexist? https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign...asculinity
Please this is serious business.  
And LaraCroft this is bigger than you and me, we need to keep the ball rolling, we have the attention now!

[/quote]



Mr. Bougo
[quote pid='86970' dateline='1613159123']


Line by line breakdown: provocation, non-sequitur, more non-sequitur and a rehashed point that misses the fact that proof was provided. That's just disingenuous trolling on your part, Pendulla.

Oh I didn't address the last line. Thanks for that one I guess. Should have scrapped the rest tbh.

[/quote]
cf post 64... Since the first post, I complained about sexist joke and sexim.
Congratulations SEEK-fried, you are very innovative in your trolling.

If you like german phiosophy, I would add :
"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments." (Friedrich Nietzsche)

Issues filed:
I am closing this thread now; I think all that is relevant to the topic has been said by now.
BRLOGENSHFEGLE (core dumped)

The Bot Orchestra is back! | Xoylent Easter Egg | 5bots1piano
My music on Google Play and SoundCloud



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