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+--- Thread: [SUGGESTION] Single Player Tutorial Game(s) (/showthread.php?tid=7506)
Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Space Ace - 08-12-2017
Remember the Single Player tutorial game which one could do on Nexiuz to learn all of the basics of the game?
Can we have one or more of those for Xonotic for new players to learn the game?
It was really useful. These days there are so many people, especially younger players, that really have no idea how to play and quickly get frustrated. So, they quit and never come back, probably thinking, "eh, this game is too hard" or something.
My kids really used to like the tutorial game mode and would play it over and over.
They would also like to just try go get around maps without anybody on it (no people, no bots) so they could practice without being constantly killed.
Who wants to read page after page after page of instructions when you can simply start playing immediately while learning at the same time? Not me, I'd rather just start playing.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Beemann - 09-05-2017
Bit late to the party here, but I think this is essential to getting people to be more comfortable with Vanilla. I think a basic tutorial that new players load into on first boot (or possibly just after they reach the menu and can mess with options) that they can leave would be ideal, and can also give people a good idea as to how the game will run in a closed environment.
Things the basic tutorial should cover
+fwd and jump increasing your speed, basic w or a/d airstrafe
items and how they work (armour values, timers)
weapons and what they do (ammo, basic weapon mechanics)
You can breeze through that stuff pretty quick. It's more practice than knowledge oriented. You could even show off warpzones and teleporters in there, and show the player the difference between the two without adding too much time. Maybe even jumppads and their Xon-specific properties
Game also needs tutorials for weapon combos, circlejumps and ramp jumps, but I don't think a brand new player needs to know these as quickly as the other things
When you look at fighting games, they have all sorts of training modes and tutorials nowadays. Guilty Gear isnt the easiest game to get into, but they compensate for that in Revelator with extensive tutorials, and challenge modes that have you address specific plays within the game. If you're bad at countering Sol's DP, you can practice against it again and again, on any character, until you have it down, and the game will rate you based on consistency (out of 5 attempts).
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Antibody - 09-05-2017
I'm willing to contribute voice tracks wherever needed.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - hox3d - 09-06-2017
I've been thinking about that.
Has anyone here played the Dark Mod? Where in Nexuiz you had a "basic" linear tutorial, in the Dark Mod, you could choose what you wanted to play: lockpicking, sneaking, weapons & combat, etc.
I think maybe doing something like that instead of a loooooong and linear tutorial.
So you could train for either weapons and their specs, basic and advanced movement tricks, warpzones & tp & jump pads, item picking, etc. I think it's more interesting that way.
I could manage to get some time, who would be ready as well? It's boring to start doing it alone.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Cortez666 - 09-06-2017
I already gave tutorial maps a try (read the thread from that point onwards)
https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=6224&pid=77228#pid77228
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - hox3d - 09-07-2017
Oh, seems interesting.
So what's the status of it? How many maps for which kind of training did you do? I couldn't get it, given the thread ability to got everywhere.
So maybe, what we could do is actually select a bunch of maps which are interesting for training (in all fields), extract the important parts and pack them into a "supermap" alltogether.
PS: dafuq the crylink
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Freddy - 09-07-2017
The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Beemann - 09-07-2017
(09-07-2017, 10:24 AM)Freddy Wrote: The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
Cool stuff. I'll check it out when I get home
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - hox3d - 09-07-2017
That's nice Freddy!
That's the thing I was talking about.
For instance, have a basic tutorial for each thing, and at the end, a bigger map where you are free to practice. For movement, it would involve, I don't know, a platform to reach or anything.
For weapons, a certain amount of damage to deal to targets, with an arena-style weapons switching. Etc.
Maybe even a race to perform in a certain time?
These rooms would be more that basic stuff, it's like if you want to practice something "for real".
Is it possible to have a pop-up window or something that displays a little text when you walk on it (for instance)?
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - end user - 09-07-2017
(09-07-2017, 10:42 AM)Lyberta Wrote:(09-07-2017, 10:24 AM)Freddy Wrote: The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
It doesn't say how to do anything and focuses only on very difficult tricks. I couldn't finish the 2nd and 3rd rooms. Too hard.
Hence why he wrote
Quote: feedback and improvements are welcome
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Cortez666 - 09-07-2017
(09-07-2017, 04:27 AM)hox3d Wrote: Oh, seems interesting.https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1amw1u3qnxdjr9/run_test_beta.pk3?dl=0
So what's the status of it? How many maps for which kind of training did you do? I couldn't get it, given the thread ability to got everywhere.
So maybe, what we could do is actually select a bunch of maps which are interesting for training (in all fields), extract the important parts and pack them into a "supermap" alltogether.
PS: dafuq the crylink
Basic running map. You do bunny hopping, ramp jumps, hopping from plattform to plattform, jumppad aircontroll and dublble ramp jump.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbld19kqp44razk/run_weapontest_beta.pk3?dl=0
Somthing similar just with weapons. Laserjumps, rocketjumps, dubblelaserjumps and jumplaser jump.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - mini - 09-07-2017
(09-07-2017, 01:45 PM)Cortez666 Wrote: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1amw1u3qnxdjr9/run_test_beta.pk3?dl=0
Basic running map. You do bunny hopping, ramp jumps, hopping from plattform to plattform, jumppad aircontroll and dublble ramp jump.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbld19kqp44razk/run_weapontest_beta.pk3?dl=0
Somthing similar just with weapons. Laserjumps, rocketjumps, dubblelaserjumps and jumplaser jump.
I think this was the approach Quake Live took. Most was communicated through images on the walls of practice maps. Much like Mirio's single player campaign, there is a gradual ramp-up in difficulty so that you're challenged to take the next small step towards self-improvement. I think I'm an average pc gamer with average mouse control but those tutorials were effective enough to have me strafing passably in an hour or two. Haven't looked at Cortez666 or Freddy's maps but I think this is a great idea.
Single player campaign GUI suggests that adding more campaigns was the idea at some point. Halogene's newbie corner is great but only a small percentage I've told about it have actually gone and worked through it. This might be the perfect way to get new players up and running.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Freddy - 09-07-2017
(09-07-2017, 10:42 AM)Lyberta Wrote:(09-07-2017, 10:24 AM)Freddy Wrote: The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
It doesn't say how to do anything and focuses only on very difficult tricks. I couldn't finish the 2nd and 3rd rooms. Too hard.
It's still early in development. I plan to play voiceclips whenever you enter a room explaining what and how to do in this room. For now, the centerprint messages should at least tell you what to do.
The second section is advanced movement, so it should be at least somewhat challenging. Which part was too hard for you there?
For the third section, I guess that the devastator part was your problem. I might need to enlarge the target behind the pillar
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - SpiKe - 09-08-2017
(09-07-2017, 10:24 AM)Freddy Wrote: The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
It looks nice, multiple levels accessible via teleporters is a good idea.
Sometimes the door doesn't open on the "bunnyhop to exit" parts, even when returning to the start line.
It's a bit difficult to see the exact dimensions of the hole in the glass because of the texture. You may have better results with the glass texture from Solarium.
Currently, when the player dies, he respawns in the lobby. Is it possible to make some kind of checkpoint system?
I guess you'll make more advanced levels with rocket curving and crylink boost, it will be fun
As I said on IRC a few days ago, the only "problem" is that such a tutorial is only accessible to English speakers.
I guess it's not possible to translate in-map texts though, and providing voice clips for dozens of languages is probably a no-go
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Beemann - 09-08-2017
Hey, got some feedback on your tutorial, Freddy
1. I'd actually focus on circles and not strafes. With the 900 qu/s cap, a good circle jump does a lot for your speed, and strafes will fall off in usefulness quickly. I also had a minor issue where the doors werent opening, but then I realized that the "doorway" into the hall was the door activation trigger. Might be something to look into
2. Your double rampjump is a little too finnicky. I'd recommend either decreasing the height a little or making the second ramp larger. Alternatively, just rebuild the one on afterslime, or pick your favourite from another map. As it stands I tended to either gain too much height (circling in) or too little (straight forward) and ended up having to do a sort of "end of the ramp" diagonal jump up+airstrafe. If you're hellbent on designing your own, I'd leave the player with a little bit of extra height over the platform after a decent jump, in case they havent practiced airstrafing enough yet (which, along with circlejumping, is another addition I'd wholeheartedly recommend adding rooms for)
3. I actually found getting projectiles through the window was quite annoying. I'd maybe widen that a little, and perhaps increase the size of the rooms to give a little more wiggle room. There's a very small space on the screen that is viable for hitting the more difficult targets currently. If you want to make a more challenging map, that's fine, but if you want a tutorial the goal should be to get the mechanic across, not frustrate players with small aim windows
Other than that I thought it was pretty good. Timer on the second door may need to be dialed back (I didn't have an issue with it, but newer players might, and their sub-par strafing wont really prevent them from doing well in duel), but I liked it overall. I, however, did run into a minor technical issue wherein on the Create screen it only shows up for LMS, but I can load the map fine from DM. Not sure if that's just a "my machine" issue or if other people have run into that
@Cortez666, I'll check out your maps when I have more time
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Antares* - 09-08-2017
(09-07-2017, 10:24 AM)Freddy Wrote: The last few days I created a simple tutorial map (http://beta.xonotic.org/autobuild-bsp/tutorial-06dcc4ee4b016176f0aba1c8e0bb604e28e5b843-f29de100970965242fcb3ca827ccf0b7c5f2d56e/), feedback and improvements are welcome
The concept is nice, but I start with the doors closed off to begin with on room #1 and #2, and they don't seem to reset.
(09-07-2017, 01:45 PM)Cortez666 Wrote:(09-07-2017, 04:27 AM)hox3d Wrote: Oh, seems interesting.https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1amw1u3qnxdjr9/run_test_beta.pk3?dl=0
So what's the status of it? How many maps for which kind of training did you do? I couldn't get it, given the thread ability to got everywhere.
So maybe, what we could do is actually select a bunch of maps which are interesting for training (in all fields), extract the important parts and pack them into a "supermap" alltogether.
PS: dafuq the crylink
Basic running map. You do bunny hopping, ramp jumps, hopping from plattform to plattform, jumppad aircontroll and dublble ramp jump.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbld19kqp44razk/run_weapontest_beta.pk3?dl=0
Somthing similar just with weapons. Laserjumps, rocketjumps, dubblelaserjumps and jumplaser jump.
These are like actual CTS maps (which is not much of a tutorial without instruction). Though I think instead of the ditch instakilling the player (forcing a restart from the beginning, it should instead be a teleporter that targets the reasonable starting place for the trick jump).
Off note: there's a lot of potential I think because I believe Xonotic Defrag should take advantage of Xonotic weapon features instead of removing them for Q3DF compatibility (which I recall Devastator having its curving, etc removed in XDF).
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Freddy - 09-09-2017
Thanks for the feedback everyone, here are the improvement with the latest version:
I replaced the buttons in the "running rooms" with vertical triggers so you can't really miss them anymore. Green lasers show you where the trigger is.
I also made the strafe room a bit easier.
The double rampjump is now also easier. I increased the size of the second ramp.
All the rooms where you need to shoot targets are now reset upon leaving them (at the moment you can shoot every target more than once as the game logic to deactivate buttons was not sufficient, but I already created a merge request for that).
I also increased the size of the holes in the glass a bit and added a trim, so now it should be easier to hit the targets.
I don't know why the map does not show up in the menu properly, will look at it later
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Beemann - 09-10-2017
Hey Cortez666, sorry about the delay but I did check out your maps. They're nice. The only real issue that I had was that all white walls on my settings cause superbloom, but I dunno if that's the intended theme of the map anyway
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Space Ace - 10-07-2017
I assume there's a simple reason, but I'll ask anyway, why can't we just augment the original Nexiuz tutorial map and use that as a building block of sorts to make one for Xonotic?
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - -z- - 10-07-2017
(10-07-2017, 03:34 AM)Space Ace Wrote: I assume there's a simple reason, but I'll ask anyway, why can't we just augment the original Nexiuz tutorial map and use that as a building block of sorts to make one for Xonotic?
https://z.xnz.me/xonotic/pk3/nexuiz-tutorial.pk3
You're welcome to continue work on it. I believe Mario did this "port". IIRC you cannot complete it because the weapon balance has changed, and the map has assumptions.
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - martin-t - 10-07-2017
EACFreddy started a tutorial map in a branch of the map repo (DefaultUser/tutorial) (compiled pk3).
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Beemann - 10-08-2017
(10-07-2017, 05:58 PM)martin-t Wrote: EACFreddy started a tutorial map in a branch of the map repo (DefaultUser/tutorial) (compiled pk3).
Checked it out earlier today. Looks good. Only major issue I ran into were the targets not working for Devastator room. Everything else is fairly spot on now. With some actual teaching tools for mechanics (instead of just "do a circle jump") it'd be a solid tutorial
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Mirio - 10-08-2017
(10-08-2017, 06:13 PM)Beemann Wrote:(10-07-2017, 05:58 PM)martin-t Wrote: EACFreddy started a tutorial map in a branch of the map repo (DefaultUser/tutorial) (compiled pk3).
Checked it out earlier today. Looks good. Only major issue I ran into were the targets not working for Devastator room. Everything else is fairly spot on now. With some actual teaching tools for mechanics (instead of just "do a circle jump") it'd be a solid tutorial
Good to know that I am not the only one who struggled in the RL room.
(They work)
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Antares* - 12-10-2017
RE: Freddy's map
I think the floor teleporters for failing circle jump or strafe jumping should reset velocity. I put the tutorial map on a server before and what unideally happened was someone mindlessly going at it using the previous velocity to jump over. Then not understanding the fundamentals enough to do the final room with the double ramp jumps.
Aside from that I want to toss in the idea of putting in mini-objectives for the map like secrets and an easter egg or two. This is just to make training a little fun, pique some curiosity, and reward recognizing certain map patterns as significant for gameplay instead of being perceived as just decoration (i.e a little ramp leading to somewhere).
RE: Single Player Tutorial Game(s) - Smilecythe - 12-10-2017
@Freddy's map
- It's possible to clear the first circle jump with a regular forward jump
- It's possible to circle jump the first two ramp jump segments
- Blaster run room is possible to strafe jump through without the blaster.
- I think better way to test strafe jumping would be to jump over a gap instead of racing to a door, this way utilizing space for speed gain is focused more.
- There should be a segment that combines speed gain via strafe jumping and speed preservation via turning. Maybe have the player run in a loop in order to reach over a jump gap.
- Something air control related in general? Making 90 degree turns in air, etc
- Blaster target practice, which would also require you to blaster jump in order to get sightlines to some targets?
- Crylink target practice which involves using the spread feature? Maybe have a target reset HP if enough damage is not dealt in short succession (if that's possible).
Also, most of the target practice windows are too narrow for comfort. If you stand next to them, you will hit the wall due to the firing angle of the weapon (g_shootfromeye 1 not enabled by default)