09-18-2016, 07:50 PM
I'd like to start a discussion about the official Overkill balance.
Currently there are at least 3 very different configs being used on servers plus the default/official one. The issue is that the default one is not actually overkill at all (just 'g_overkill 1; exec balance-overkill.cfg' will miss a lot of features including dodging, nades and spawning near temmates). My goal is to get a sane and complete set of overkill cvars into official Xonotic so players can start Overkill locally and so we can make an in-game tutorial. Mario told me that at least 2 Overkill admins should agree on the config. I didn't have much success agreeing over in-game chat so I want to try the forums and also ask the community for their input.
The configs:
A bit of history:
Overkill used to be an unofficial mod in a separate branch. Around January 2015, it was partially rewritten and merged into master as an official modification. Unfortunately, there were differences we didn't spot at first (apart from the missing config). Around summer, some players got really good and competitive and the rest who played casually couldn't keep up and left. These days only experienced players remain and we usually manage to scare off any newbies who try Overkill.
What now:
I have put all overkill-related settings into one file - what is there is also always running on the WTWRP server. It has 3 sections: the first is what we started using after the merge. We guessed some values, forgot to change others (nade offset and size (which was at the time broken anyway)) and some features (MG solidpenetration) were forgotten because they were broken. The second part is what me and LX agreed on so far. We didn't get very far. The 3rd part is changes I am proposing should be made official. Some are to make Overkill more approachable for newbies while impacting pros as little as possible (walking and bunnyhopping speed, weapon switching speed, spawn protection) and others are to make the mod more appealing for competitive play (these should impact newbies very little).
Every item has explanations next to it, I am not gonna repeat them here. To test it, download the file and place it next to your config.cfg, then in console 'exec overkill.cfg; map dance' (you will need a recent autobuild or git build for all features like nade offset and solidpenetration to work) or visit [WTWRP] Overkill. I'd like people of every skill level to say what they think about the changes and offer suggestions. I'll keep refining the file until we (hopefully) reach an agreement and Overkill is official. You can see the history by clicking the History button at the top of the file.
If an agreement can't be reached we might need to consider making a casual and a competitive version similar to vanilla+XPM.
Mutator vs mod:
Overkill-the-mutator is just part of the code, Overkill-the-mod depends on many other mutators (dodging, nades, spawning near teammates), config changes and its own assets. Calling it "mode" in the server list is confusing because gametypes (ctf, dm, ...) are generally called modes too. Therefore I'd like the heading to be changed to "Overkill mod". I know technically it's not a mod because it's part of the official codebase but I feel like "mutator" doesn't properly express how much it changes the gameplay and from a players perspective it doesn't matter how it's implemented. (old discussion here: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=6184 )
TL;DR:
Look at my suggestions (experimental section), tell me what you like, suggest better values for what you don't like. We want people of all skill levels to tell us their opinions.
Ultimately, the developers decide what becomes official, this is just a place where I'd like to discuss it.
EDIT: tl;dr
Currently there are at least 3 very different configs being used on servers plus the default/official one. The issue is that the default one is not actually overkill at all (just 'g_overkill 1; exec balance-overkill.cfg' will miss a lot of features including dodging, nades and spawning near temmates). My goal is to get a sane and complete set of overkill cvars into official Xonotic so players can start Overkill locally and so we can make an in-game tutorial. Mario told me that at least 2 Overkill admins should agree on the config. I didn't have much success agreeing over in-game chat so I want to try the forums and also ask the community for their input.
The configs:
- [WTWRP] Overkill: https://github.com/martin-t/xonotic-conf...erkill.cfg
- LX' Overkill (plain Overkill, no bs optimizations): https://github.com/RomanSixty/xonotic-co...server.cfg
- I'd like to point out that I find the name both misleading and offensive - LX has modified nade radius and even then it wouldn't be 'plain' considering the 0.6/MoN/classic overkill had several other differences
- (SMB) Overkill [MUSHROOM KINGDOM]: https://github.com/MarioSMB/smb-servers/...erkill.cfg
- official: https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic-data....erkill.cfg - this is just the 'balance' part not even including all overkill changes, the rest is missing completely
A bit of history:
Overkill used to be an unofficial mod in a separate branch. Around January 2015, it was partially rewritten and merged into master as an official modification. Unfortunately, there were differences we didn't spot at first (apart from the missing config). Around summer, some players got really good and competitive and the rest who played casually couldn't keep up and left. These days only experienced players remain and we usually manage to scare off any newbies who try Overkill.
What now:
I have put all overkill-related settings into one file - what is there is also always running on the WTWRP server. It has 3 sections: the first is what we started using after the merge. We guessed some values, forgot to change others (nade offset and size (which was at the time broken anyway)) and some features (MG solidpenetration) were forgotten because they were broken. The second part is what me and LX agreed on so far. We didn't get very far. The 3rd part is changes I am proposing should be made official. Some are to make Overkill more approachable for newbies while impacting pros as little as possible (walking and bunnyhopping speed, weapon switching speed, spawn protection) and others are to make the mod more appealing for competitive play (these should impact newbies very little).
Every item has explanations next to it, I am not gonna repeat them here. To test it, download the file and place it next to your config.cfg, then in console 'exec overkill.cfg; map dance' (you will need a recent autobuild or git build for all features like nade offset and solidpenetration to work) or visit [WTWRP] Overkill. I'd like people of every skill level to say what they think about the changes and offer suggestions. I'll keep refining the file until we (hopefully) reach an agreement and Overkill is official. You can see the history by clicking the History button at the top of the file.
If an agreement can't be reached we might need to consider making a casual and a competitive version similar to vanilla+XPM.
Mutator vs mod:
Overkill-the-mutator is just part of the code, Overkill-the-mod depends on many other mutators (dodging, nades, spawning near teammates), config changes and its own assets. Calling it "mode" in the server list is confusing because gametypes (ctf, dm, ...) are generally called modes too. Therefore I'd like the heading to be changed to "Overkill mod". I know technically it's not a mod because it's part of the official codebase but I feel like "mutator" doesn't properly express how much it changes the gameplay and from a players perspective it doesn't matter how it's implemented. (old discussion here: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=6184 )
TL;DR:
Look at my suggestions (experimental section), tell me what you like, suggest better values for what you don't like. We want people of all skill levels to tell us their opinions.
Ultimately, the developers decide what becomes official, this is just a place where I'd like to discuss it.
EDIT: tl;dr