Create an account


Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
I am a girl, played 283 matchs. Now, I am crying due to sexual harassment.

#1
5 minutes after I joined Xonotic, I have been insulted of bitch.
I thought "oh, maybe, there is another player with the nick name Lara Croft and this is a mistake".

Day after day, I played and asked a lot of advices on the chat (mouse settings, zoom, hook, strafe, laser jump, etc).
One day, i asked people to stop sexist jokes because this is not so funny.
People asked me if I am a real girl or a fake girl.
I did not answered but I got insulted. Then, I asked people to stop insult me.
I never insulted people in xonotic but since some weeks, I played 283 matchs and got 1000 insults.

I am not a fake girl. I am not the  dumbest feminist guy. I am not gay. I am not trans gender.
I tried to change my nickname but this problem is not related to my nickname.

I asked 20 times to the chat moderator do something. I asked bannishements.
I said that I don't like to play with SpermDriver, PussyFucker, Greta Thunberg... So, I switched team. People said that I was a stacker because I joined the best team.

More I complained about sexist joke, sexist comment and sexist nickname, more insults I got. A real girl would not complain and have a male profile!

I complained about sexism. People said that I make a drama. Then, they said that I am a liar. Nobody helped me.
Then, they said that there is no sexism in Xonotic.
Each guy added a joke until I was broken and quit the game !

I tryed a lot of time. I explained what is sexism.
I complained but a girl playing video game is either a bitch, either a fake girl?
One time, people said me : "You played too good, for a woman. How is it possible ?"
Whatever I say, Whatever I do, sexists people will try to hurt me.

More, I complained, deeper is the sexual harassment.

I got sexist advices. Lara, turn the chat off, shutup, go cooking, stop complain, quit the game if you don't like jokes, change your nick.

Nobody helped me and could understand me.

I explained that a video game is not a porno website...

Lara, send a proof you are a girl, a video of you playing and we will trust you ! 

Today, I want to do a video of me crying, just to proove that I am not a liar.

So, i just deleted Xonotic because it broken me.

Shame on you guys.  Please, do something!

#2
Hello LaraCroft,

I feel really sad and disappointed about what happened to you.
I've always considered the Xonotic community as being (mostly) awesome and friendly, but apparently some players have a really inappropriate behaviour.
Misogynist behaviours are not acceptable at all and they don't represent the Xonotic community as a whole. I'm sorry that this prompted you to uninstall the game.
Did you encounter these issues on a single server in particular or on several ones?

#3
Hello Lara. I am not heavily involved with the Xonotic community nowadays (and even less so with what happens on the servers) but I still want to respond.

You are shining a light on a real problem, indeed. It is not hard to find instances of casual forms of intolerance (most notably to me, racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia in no particular order). And sometimes worse as well, with explicit insults, abuse or even hate speech. I don't want to put those forms of intolerance on a scale and say that one is worse than the others. One could even argue that the casual forms are more pernicious and difficult to combat.

So you are right to call out casual sexism when you see it. You deserve to find the community as welcoming as anyone else would. And when you find it being hostile toward you, it's okay to defend your right to be treated fairly.

I try my best to apply this to what little space I moderate in the Xonotic community, namely, a few IRC channels and occasionally these forums. I want all people to feel comfortable and welcome in those spaces.

Now servers in particular are difficult to moderate. Some of the weight of moderation falls on server admins and moderator teams, but it is hard to be online and available all the time.

I want to call server admins to think about what better measures they might implement to make their servers more welcoming to women and other minorities. Misogyny is an issue both in gaming and in free software (as well as tech in general), and we fall at the intersection of the two. It is the responsibility of a server admin to acknowledge that, take a stance against it and try to provide the best tools to combat it.

This can mean giving access to kick and mute votes, putting forward a strict policy against intolerance, maintaining a team of trusted moderators, and most importantly setting an example for their player base and the community at large. Because another very important aspect of moderation in our spaces is performed by the community itself. With the community in a better state, you could probably just tell someone off and they would understand why you were hurt and apologize for it. Instead, you felt the need to phrase your concerns energetically, and instead of support and understanding you received backlash in return.

What you observed tells me that it is more normalized to display misogyny than it is to display femininity. That sucks and I want this dynamic flipped around.

Lara, I don't expect you to find much comfort in what I say here because we both know that this is a monster of a problem, and that it won't go away in a matter of days. I want to encourage everyone to train themselves to see casual intolerance and to call it out every time it happens. And to those of us that moderate places in the community, be it game servers or social platforms, think even harder about what you can do to make your space more welcoming.

#4
Day after day, I lost the desire to play because I complained too much times.
Nobody helped me. I really was alone against the communauty. More we complain, more jokes and insult we get.

When I was playing in a team, people wrote : Let's rape these bitch.
After each game they won, they wrote "We sucks better".

Maybe there is a kick vote but i don't know how to use. I configured automatic complain messages with hotkey.
Then people said that i was spamming.

I tried to find the chat moderator but I could not. There is not email, nothing.

On time, on the chat, I seen an interesting message:

Scarlet said : "Fuck nigger". No, this is racism. I let you 5 minutes to change your nick before bannishement.

So, I asked to Scarlet if she is administrator. I asked she bannish "SpermDriver" because he has a sexist name.
Scarlet said me : "Yes, I am moderator. Lara, why should I bannish SpermDriver ? Just because you don't like his nick ?"
I was unable to explain, so I googled it to understand and I found a porn website.

I complained during 2 days about this. I seen another nickname of girl.
I asked she another game like xonotic with a moderated chat.
She said me : "Lara, why do you want a fucking moderated chat? It sucks !"

The people with a girl nickname, said they are moderator but just have sexist behaviour.
They just was not able to understand the problem. Sexism is normal.

I don't know about racism or homophobia but please, do something against sexism.

Please, write a warning message when people start the game. Then people have to read and click "OK".

Please, explain that girls have the right to play without reading insult or be hurted by the chat.
In the real life, I was at science college with 20 guys. When I join a group, guys avoided to talk about sex. Here, not ! So I had to complain.

One day, 2 players were talking about a girl they know. Both said that they would like to fuck she if she would not have a child.
I complained and asked bannishement but they said : "Lara, what is your problem? This is just a normal chat.".

I just explained that it is a public chat and some people don't like read this. I was hurted but could not say that I am girl.
If we say that we are a girl, we go insulted of bitch.
Finally, they muted me.

We can not trust chat moderator.
Each day, people came with new nickname, just to insult me.
Now, each time I play, new people come to ask me sexual question and insult me.

I thought that I could be strongest but they are too much, too often.

Please add a warning message in the game. Please, add automatic messages in chat to prevent sexism.

Please, avoid that new players can use the chat before played at least 100 games. Make a statistic with a player reputation. Which player can I trust ?

Do something, for other girls.

#5
Lara, could you tell us what server it is you are talking about, and perhaps send demo files as well to show us the chat logs? "Auto record demos" can be configured in the "Media" tab in the multiplayer menu window. Hopefully you have them recorded already.

In my limited experience I haven't seen abuse as serious as what you are describing. It hurts me to say this, but I fear that you are being targeted for laughs by people who know that they can get away with their own abuse while you get muted for spamming against it.

Unfortunately there is not much we can do against how server admins run their servers. Taking radical action against them will hurt the community in different ways, so it is hard to tell for such a small game what the best course of action is. I would prefer to start by reaching out to the server admin with proof that their server has a severe lack of moderation. Do you think you can provide that proof?

#6
This player came on a server I was playing and I felt they were trolling for reactions. 

Chat wasn't rude in anyway on the server I was on.

Unless they were victim on another server and Lara thinks chat is moderated across all servers, I believe this is a troll.

Post proof please Lara. Specify server, nicks, screenshots, etc...

#7
So you're an adult or at least a teenager, and you're crying over words on the internet?
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017

#8
(02-06-2021, 05:11 PM)Antares* Wrote: So you're an adult or at least a teenager, and you're crying over words on the internet?

I... don't see anything wrong with that though? I mean, if you've never been hurt by "words on the internet" I'm happy for you, but it is a bit rude to assume that anything else is out of place.

#9
Yes, Antares because I have been victim of sexual assault in the real life.
Yesterday people in the game asked me "Lara, do you like sauce ?"
So, I closed the game, deleted it and posted here my testify.
I don't care to proove what people wrote, on which server.
I don't care who, when, why...
Don't worry, ICreatedThisAccountForThisPost, I did't take screenshots with your nickname.
Antares, you played with me and seen the same words as me on the chat.
Some days ago, I was a bitch. I complained, then I was a gay. Then, I complained and was a liar. 
Now, I am troll. Ok, I don't complain anymore.

#10
(02-06-2021, 07:49 PM)LaraCroft Wrote: Antares, you played with me and seen the same words as me on the chat.
Some days ago, I was a bitch. I complained, then I was a gay. Then, I complained and was a liar. 
Now, I am troll. Ok, I don't complain anymore.

I haven't played this game recently.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017

#11
I'll be reaching out to LaraCroft in PM to see how we should move this discussion forward.

#12
(02-06-2021, 06:41 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 05:11 PM)Antares* Wrote: So you're an adult or at least a teenager, and you're crying over words on the internet?

I... don't see anything wrong with that though? I mean, if you've never been hurt by "words on the internet" I'm happy for you, but it is a bit rude to assume that anything else is out of place.

I kinda agree yet i also find it rude when (in case the postings here are true) a person joins the game for like 2 days and demands bans for certain players with "inappropriate" nicknames that have the level of some elementary school kid. The Internet isn't your personal safe space and it shouldn't be. I'm male and i have to deal with all kind of namecallings on the Internet since i first got into online gaming.
It is what it is: Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's annoying. I have a girlfriend that often plays games next to me and honestly she never has this kind of issue since she knows and understands that the same guy who got fragged by her and calls her a "bitch" would call me "bitch" as well when it was me fragging him. It's trashtalking and especially in AFPS you should't take it too series. I don't care how Macho that sounds but it's kinda part of the game.

There are enough games that have an agenda against that (like Overwatch). And if you really like such a protected space i suggest playing that kind of games.
Demanding something like a "moderated chat" sounds like a nightmare to me. What's the first word we gonna ban? Will it be fuck or will it be gay? And if we ban gay does it mean we consider gay an insult?

#13
(02-07-2021, 06:14 AM)NoClue Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 06:41 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 05:11 PM)Antares* Wrote: So you're an adult or at least a teenager, and you're crying over words on the internet?

I... don't see anything wrong with that though? I mean, if you've never been hurt by "words on the internet" I'm happy for you, but it is a bit rude to assume that anything else is out of place.

I kinda agree yet i also find it rude when (in case the postings here are true) a person joins the game for like 2 days and demands bans for certain players with "inappropriate" nicknames that have the level of some elementary school kid. The Internet isn't your personal safe space and it shouldn't be. I'm male and i have to deal with all kind of namecallings on the Internet since i first got into online gaming.
It is what it is: Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's annoying. I have a girlfriend that often plays games next to me and honestly she never has this kind of issue since she knows and understands that the same guy who got fragged by her and calls her a "bitch" would call me "bitch" as well when it was me fragging him. It's trashtalking and especially in AFPS you should't take it too series. I don't care how Macho that sounds but it's kinda part of the game.

There are enough games that have an agenda against that (like Overwatch). And if you really like such a protected space i suggest playing that kind of games.
Demanding something like a "moderated chat" sounds like a nightmare to me. What's the first word we gonna ban? Will it be fuck or will it be gay? And if we ban gay does it mean we consider gay an insult?

I only agree with the last part there, which is that putting moderation in action is a hairy topic.

I'd like to respond to the rest of your message, as I cannot agree with it. I'll try to be short.

You defend the status quo ("it's kinda part of the game") but I don't see why that could not change. I'm not radical enough to say that we must enforce this change by all means and risk damaging the community if it cannot bear with it. But there are other ways to make an effort to push for more tolerance and understanding. That's what motivated my initial response. Fostering more tolerance will not hurt anyone, except for people who want to express intolerance without consequences. I'm okay if the worst offenders start feeling uncomfortable and leave as a result.

You bring up your own experience and your girlfriend's against adversity. Are you saying that "toughing it up" is the correct way out of this discomfort? If you recognize machism and/or sexism as a problem, do you feel this strategy helps to eradicate it? Personally, I am thankful that some people want to change the world instead of changing themselves. I think allowing intolerance to thrive causes real damage to the more vulnerable people down the line. Learning adversity can remain a useful tool in someone's personal fight against oppression, as a coping strategy to help deal with the inevitable violence they receive.

And finally, you resort to the term "personal safe space". If we leave aside the derogatory aspect of the term, what remains in my understanding is as follows: you state as a rule that online spaces should not be welcoming, understanding and respectful of someone's struggles. If so, I cannot disagree more. I have participated in such spaces, and I can tell you that no other social experience online of mine has come close to feeling that good. It's a shame that people don't see the value in this. I would love to see more people in the Xonotic community adopt that safe attitude. We already have a few, fortunately. I'm not speaking of Xonotic in particular, that counts for any other community; there are never enough such people.

I don't want internet communities at large to be seen by default as boxing rings, that you join to dodge punches and deal some of your own for fun. If that's what some groups of people want, they can make their own spaces with their own set of rules for friendly banter of course. But the outside world is violent enough as it is for minorities to see those same dynamics replicated unchecked online by default. I am glad for safe spaces and I want to see more of them and see them bleed into the rest of the culture. Safe spaces would not need to exist if the status quo ceased being so unsafe in the first place.

Sorry, I made this way longer than I intended. I'm just trying to get my vision across. Hopefully I won't need to spend more time writing and asking of others to spend their own time reading my rants. This kind of discussion has been rehashed a whole lot already outside of this community anyway.

So yeah, no hard feelings here. I just took your post as an opportunity to expand more I guess.

#14
I disagree. 
We're talking about a game with the middle fingers, and many of the few voice lines in the game is essentially trash talk.

Safe spaces are the "status quo" when social justice / "white left" culture and rhetoric are taught in state-funded education and universities. Nor can you call (trans-)sexism, racism, and so forth the status quo when people's careers can end with a dubious phone call to their bosses, or that safe spaces are in AAA productions like Overwatch.
The attitude I had when I came into the discussion was to treat Lara as an adult since she had been in college. If she was a girl then I agree that sexually charged insults towards a minor is inappropriate. Even in that case, you can not force server administration to accommodate children.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017

#15
(02-07-2021, 02:58 PM)Antares* Wrote: I disagree. 
We're talking about a game with the middle fingers, and the many of the few voice lines in the game is essentially trash talk.

Safe spaces are the "status quo" when social justice / "white left" culture and rhetoric are taught in state-funded education and universities. Nor can you call (trans-)sexism, racism, and so forth the status quo when people's careers can end with a dubious phone call to their bosses, or that safe spaces are in AAA productions like Overwatch.
The attitude I had when I came into the discussion was to treat Lara as an adult since she had been in college. If she was a girl then I agree that sexually charged insults towards a minor is inappropriate. Even in that case, you can not force server administration to accommodate children.

I mean sure, we can comment on how capitalist culture will often throw the lived experience of minorities under the bus until overcompensating pandering becomes more profitable. I don't think it's fair to set that as the standard though. I sometimes find it disturbing too. But heck, part of the LGBT community protests against corporate presence in pride marches, so that should tell you something about minorities being able to have a sense of nuance.

But outside of that, minorities are still afraid for their safety and well-being (you know the classics: housing, jobs, medical, physical integrity). That's what I meant with the outside world being violent. And it sucks when the same kind of (often subtle) hostility follows you online. My point is: sexism is still normalized, especially in the areas where Xonotic exists (video games, open source software), and I still don't understand why people resist to change on that front. Nobody's talking about shoving alternate lifestyles down your throat, at least not from what I can see.

By status quo I mean the state of things as they exist currently. In Xonotic I still see normalized casual homophobia and sexism, and people defending that. Hence me saying the status quo is being defended. If that crumbles thanks to values of social justice being accepted by more and more people, that's a good thing in my book I guess? I don't know what the fuss is all about really.

Are there more arguments to be made other than just wanting to keep things unchallenged because doing otherwise would disturb some kind of peace or equilibrium?

EDIT: Just to clarify, again, I mean this with all due respect. I have no willingness to play into the already-polarized buzzword-heavy debate that goes on out there. I have my own stakes in that debate but I'm open to being challenged.

#16
(02-07-2021, 01:31 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:
(02-07-2021, 06:14 AM)NoClue Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 06:41 PM)Mr. Bougo Wrote:
(02-06-2021, 05:11 PM)Antares* Wrote: So you're an adult or at least a teenager, and you're crying over words on the internet?

I... don't see anything wrong with that though? I mean, if you've never been hurt by "words on the internet" I'm happy for you, but it is a bit rude to assume that anything else is out of place.

I kinda agree yet i also find it rude when (in case the postings here are true) a person joins the game for like 2 days and demands bans for certain players with "inappropriate" nicknames that have the level of some elementary school kid. The Internet isn't your personal safe space and it shouldn't be. I'm male and i have to deal with all kind of namecallings on the Internet since i first got into online gaming.
It is what it is: Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it's annoying. I have a girlfriend that often plays games next to me and honestly she never has this kind of issue since she knows and understands that the same guy who got fragged by her and calls her a "bitch" would call me "bitch" as well when it was me fragging him. It's trashtalking and especially in AFPS you should't take it too series. I don't care how Macho that sounds but it's kinda part of the game.

There are enough games that have an agenda against that (like Overwatch). And if you really like such a protected space i suggest playing that kind of games.
Demanding something like a "moderated chat" sounds like a nightmare to me. What's the first word we gonna ban? Will it be fuck or will it be gay? And if we ban gay does it mean we consider gay an insult?

I only agree with the last part there, which is that putting moderation in action is a hairy topic.

I'd like to respond to the rest of your message, as I cannot agree with it. I'll try to be short.

You defend the status quo ("it's kinda part of the game") but I don't see why that could not change. I'm not radical enough to say that we must enforce this change by all means and risk damaging the community if it cannot bear with it. But there are other ways to make an effort to push for more tolerance and understanding. That's what motivated my initial response. Fostering more tolerance will not hurt anyone, except for people who want to express intolerance without consequences. I'm okay if the worst offenders start feeling uncomfortable and leave as a result.

You bring up your own experience and your girlfriend's against adversity. Are you saying that "toughing it up" is the correct way out of this discomfort? If you recognize machism and/or sexism as a problem, do you feel this strategy helps to eradicate it? Personally, I am thankful that some people want to change the world instead of changing themselves. I think allowing intolerance to thrive causes real damage to the more vulnerable people down the line. Learning adversity can remain a useful tool in someone's personal fight against oppression, as a coping strategy to help deal with the inevitable violence they receive.

And finally, you resort to the term "personal safe space". If we leave aside the derogatory aspect of the term, what remains in my understanding is as follows: you state as a rule that online spaces should not be welcoming, understanding and respectful of someone's struggles. If so, I cannot disagree more. I have participated in such spaces, and I can tell you that no other social experience online of mine has come close to feeling that good. It's a shame that people don't see the value in this. I would love to see more people in the Xonotic community adopt that safe attitude. We already have a few, fortunately. I'm not speaking of Xonotic in particular, that counts for any other community; there are never enough such people.

I don't want internet communities at large to be seen by default as boxing rings, that you join to dodge punches and deal some of your own for fun. If that's what some groups of people want, they can make their own spaces with their own set of rules for friendly banter of course. But the outside world is violent enough as it is for minorities to see those same dynamics replicated unchecked online by default. I am glad for safe spaces and I want to see more of them and see them bleed into the rest of the culture. Safe spaces would not need to exist if the status quo ceased being so unsafe in the first place.

Sorry, I made this way longer than I intended. I'm just trying to get my vision across. Hopefully I won't need to spend more time writing and asking of others to spend their own time reading my rants. This kind of discussion has been rehashed a whole lot already outside of this community anyway.

So yeah, no hard feelings here. I just took your post as an opportunity to expand more I guess.
I guess I'll also throw in my two cents. I want to state that I don't have enough information about this particular incident to decide what really happened, so these are my thoughts about internet communities in general. The term "you" in the following is not addressed to anyone in particular.

I also think that the internet shouldn't be a "personal safe space". I'm using that term on purpose because some people's view on the internet is so twisted that there are only victims and offenders. Some codes of conduct even use these terms instead of accuser and accused. The internet (as well as any other form of communication) should allow arguments, words, opinions and facts that you don't want to hear or that you don't share. If we immediately moderate anything that someone claims to be offensive, then we create an easy way of silencing arguments. This would hinder the exchange of ideas.
For me, the term "personal safe space" stands exactly for this: being able to shut down every thought that you don't want to hear based on emotions. A space where the content is not as important as the gender, ethnical group of political orientation of those who voice their ideas and opinions.
The internet should not be a "personal safe space", but a place where people from all around the world can argue and hold discussions in a respectful manner. Emotions quickly lead to empty phrases, insults, mockery and generalizations which then lead to more emotions so that no discussion is left. Both sides can start such a cycle.

Another point I want to mention is the intensity of discussions about these "minor offenses". I don't want to condone those offenses, but they are often extremely blown out of proportion. People who don't think that these are offensive don't necessarily have to be racist/sexist/etc, but are maybe just not that sensitive. If there are so many vehement complaints about actions/words that a big part of the community doesn't consider "that bad", the complaints about undeniable offenses get weakened as many people will be fed up with all these discussions. Those people will simply look away because "it's just another crybaby/social justice warrior".
In case you feel offended by "minor" actions/jokes, please stay calm and complain without extreme emotions. Never use insults as an answer. Please don't fuel the "SJW intensifies" meme. This will not help you in those discussions and most people will immediately clamp up. Noone likes to be insulted, even if they are offensive themselves. Some might not even realise that their jokes is offensive and will react rationally. Some people just like to trigger other people.
In case someone complains about you in an overly emotional way, try to create a calm discussion. Don't automatically assume that they are a troll.


The last topic I want to mention is "reversism". AFAIS this topic doesn't apply to this case, but I'll mention it anyways as this post is more about the general issue anyways. Only because someone is part of a minority or "supressed" group doesn't mean that they can't be racist. The phrase "you men only think about sex" is just as sexist as "you should be in the kitchen where you belong". If you think otherwise, then you will not solve this problem. Think about your opinions/actions first. This is a problem that can only be solved when both sides try to understand each other. Because "why should I do as they say if they don't do that themselves".

tl;dr: Generalization is bad. Think about if you really act the way that you want other people to act.

#17
How about you just "sack up" and quit worrying about what some retarded teenage kids on the internet say?
Sounds like a troll or a drama queen. I've seen females playing in Xonotic and never seen any kind of harassment. Not to say it couldn't happen depending on the server and who was playing, but seriously, this is a pretty welcoming community. Maybe you should stop making such a big deal over everything. Someone harasses you, then harass them back until they shut up. Simple.

#18
If the status quo was freedom, is it appealing at all to go against that and undermine the rights of the people with censorship? Honestly, I'm not intent on further derailing the thread to socio-politics. If offense is the price of liberty, then there are many people willing to pay that price (at least in the United States).

On the issue:
Are Xonotic players responsible for their own playing experience? Or do we need to hold a thread every time someone gets offended or re-configure and staff servers with moderators?
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017

#19
(02-07-2021, 04:32 PM)daveblanchard Wrote: How about you just "sack up" and quit worrying about what some retarded teenage kids on the internet say?
Sounds like a troll or a drama queen. I've seen females playing in Xonotic and never seen any kind of harassment. Not to say it couldn't happen depending on the server and who was playing, but seriously, this is a pretty welcoming community. Maybe you should stop making such a big deal over everything. Someone harasses you, then harass them back until they shut up. Simple.

You're using a few loaded words there ("retarded", "drama queen", "females"). Just making a note of it, as I interpret this as you taking an explicit stance in one topic of this thread, that is, sensitivity to language. Let me know if I'm wrong.

In response to your comment on trolling, I think the topic is worth addressing regardless. The claims are at least somewhat grounded from what I saw in chatlogs, albeit paraphrased hyperbolically. Regardless, I think I tried to orient my responses away from the specific claims at hand, as I could not fully verify them and that I was missing the "other side" of the situation.

And to repeat myself a little in response to Antares, I don't think I called for any form of censorship. I'm saying there is a deep-rooted cultural issue that makes online gaming unwelcoming to minorities. I don't think that is a controversial point to be making, and it does not contradict the fact that many people here are well above my personal "standards" for benevolent behaviour. My point, and part of Lara's point as well, is that moving this culture toward being more acceptant would be a positive outcome. And to achieve it requires better moderation for the egregious cases at the very least, but also cultivating more openness, understanding and respect through better community stewardship.

In other words: I don't think I ever pushed for censorship of any kind. If I talk about punishing at all, this only concerns assholes who damage the community and its capacity to welcome people. Other problematic but less severe behaviour can be handled with a bit more care and humanity. As I'm trying to do right now discussing this with you guys.

I'll read and respond to Freddy's longer post later Smile

#20
Oh look, another drama queen.

Let me clue you in on a fact of life. Any time you have a game which teenage boys play, there's going to be trash talking. 

Also, any time you are on the internet, there is going to be trash talking. It's been like this for years. Matter of fact, it's been like this since September of 1996 when AOL'ers joined the internet for the first time. "Eternal September" is what they called it. You must be new around here.

"WELCOME....TO THE WORLD OF TOMORROW!"

I frankly can't stand drama queens such as yourself and OP. You create trouble where none existed.

The useless OP said she even changed her name to a non female name and the harassment continued. Guess what that means? She is intentionally in there stirring up trouble. There is no other explanation. She even dragged it in here to start a thread about it, to continue the drama here. And you fellow drama queens eat it up, of course.

I have played many Xonotic games and never, ever have been harassed in any way, except for one instance in which some teenage boy was being a dick. So I ran from him and got him to chase me....right into the middle of a firefight where he caught a rocket to the dome. He left not too long after that. LOL

STOP BEING A DRAMA QUEEN.

#21
(02-07-2021, 05:08 PM)daveblanchard Wrote: Oh look, another drama queen.

Let me clue you in on a fact of life. Any time you have a game which teenage boys play, there's going to be trash talking. 

Also, any time you are on the internet, there is going to be trash talking. It's been like this for years. Matter of fact, it's been like this since September of 1996 when AOL'ers joined the internet for the first time. "Eternal September" is what they called it. You must be new around here.

"WELCOME....TO THE WORLD OF TOMORROW!"

I frankly can't stand drama queens such as yourself and OP. You create trouble where none existed.

The useless OP said she even changed her name to a non female name and the harassment continued. Guess what that means? She is intentionally in there stirring up trouble. There is no other explanation. She even dragged it in here to start a thread about it, to continue the drama here. And you fellow drama queens eat it up, of course.

I have played many Xonotic games and never, ever have been harassed in any way, except for one instance in which some teenage boy was being a dick. So I ran from him and got him to chase me....right into the middle of a firefight where he caught a rocket to the dome. He left not too long after that. LOL

STOP BEING A DRAMA QUEEN.

Hello?? You're talking to a forum admin?? I mean, you might want to know that, in case you'd judge it best to tone it down a little. I'm nice so please don't consider this a warning, just a piece of contextual information on what kind of image you're giving of yourself and to whom.

And you're also talking about people who's lived experiences are very different to your own. I can't force you to have empathy but I can at least suggest you try it.

And as I said a couple of times earlier already, I would not mind being explained who or what exactly this discussion is hurting. I could be snide and say it's only your feelings that are hurt right now, but I don't even know if that's true. I honestly don't understand.

#22
"People asked me if I am a real girl or a fake girl. I did not answered but I got insulted."
And there is your problem in a nutshell--assuming you aren't actually a troll. Clearly, you are extremely brittle and insecure. Next time tell them "there's no real girls on the internet, DUH." Or tell them you're a real girl and offer to email them naked pics. Then send a pic of tubgirl or something. LOL. That's how you deal with this sort of thing. Got it?

#23
"Hello?? You're talking to a forum admin??"

So what?
Maybe that explains why there's not so many posts here. Maybe people are tired of the drama queens. 
Maybe that's why all the action is in the game itself--because people would rather PLAY THE GAME than deal with a bunch of "social justice" garbage.
All I can say is, the moment I ever have to read trash like this in the game is the day I quit Xonotic for good. You people have RUINED THE INTERNET with your extremely weak, brittle lack of character.

#24
(02-07-2021, 05:22 PM)daveblanchard Wrote: "Hello?? You're talking to a forum admin??"

So what?
Maybe that explains why there's not so many posts here. Maybe people are tired of the drama queens. 
Maybe that's why all the action is in the game itself--because people would rather PLAY THE GAME than deal with a bunch of "social justice" garbage.
All I can say is, the moment I ever have to read trash like this in the game is the day I quit Xonotic for good. You people have RUINED THE INTERNET with your extremely weak, brittle lack of character.

"So what?" Well, I mean, we're interacting in a community of shared interests, usually the first interactions in that kind of space aren't that much of a clusterfuck as you are making it here between us. I don't know what you expect as the outcome of such hostility really. I was hoping that pointing out my admin status would appeal to your sense of respect that wasn't keeping you in check initially, but that did not have the effect I intended.

Anyway, you are demonstrating my earlier point quite well. If people find it unacceptable when sexism and other forms of intolerance are called out and shunned in-game and drive themselves out as a result, I won't try to keep them. I prefer a culture where a wider diversity of people feel accepted than one where intolerance thrives in the absence of minorities. Note that I'm not trying to push you out. Do whatever you like.

And I honestly still have trouble imagining how a culture shift toward more tolerance would ruin your experience. Is your enjoyment of the game unaffected by homophobic insults but ruined as soon as someone points out how insensitive that is? Then we'd better not play on the same server.

#25
(02-07-2021, 05:08 PM)daveblanchard Wrote: I frankly can't stand drama queens such as yourself and OP. You create trouble where none existed.

Then contribute to a topic you can actually help out on. And stop fueling the drama with your own, derailing the topic while doing so.


(02-07-2021, 05:08 PM)daveblanchard Wrote: You people have RUINED THE INTERNET with your extremely weak, brittle lack of character.

Who's the drama queen?

Could you imagine for a second that different people have different strenghts?
Like that second sentence of the first quote is interesting. It shows that your character lacks other qualities. Namely empathy. While the OP may not have the qualities to deal with these kinds of trolls yet you should not deal with topics like this.



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Damn! Games played end user 3 2,602 11-08-2015, 04:11 AM
Last Post: Smilecythe

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

Forum software by © MyBB original theme © iAndrew 2016, remixed by -z-