balanceFruit.cfg

There are 18 items in the weaponlist section of the player-setup screen, maybe you forgot mine-layer Mirio))

A crazy sniper rifle idea just popped into my mind: how about to make it single shot instead, and remove the reload function completely (its pretty weird anyways) You shoot one, then you have to lay down the sniper rifle to put in the next bullet, then raise it up and then shoot again. It would make this weapon basically longshot-only (with putting zoom on the secondary). As exchange damage could be like 99 and 160 on headshot. Longer reload time (like 2,5 sec) could prevent spamming on wide open maps where currently nex and sniper rifle totally dominate everything else, and there would be a visible sign why it takes long to shoot the weapons (due the "reload")
Another idea could be a thermal mode on the secondary while it zooms, rendering everything dark grey while players show up white. I guess from coding perspective its not too easy, but it could be unique and fun. This would make sniper rifle and nex totally different eventho both are long ranged.

I agree on the cells once you reach max, I don't think you should be able to keep picking them up either (for any ammo not just cells!).

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Francotirador, 2.5 seconds for a hitscan is an eternity.

There are 18 items in the weaponlist section of the player-setup screen, maybe you forgot mine-layer Mirio))

The 9 "normal" weapons , Rifle; HLAC; Fireball; Mine Layer; TAG Seeker; Hook; Port-O; Tuba. Tell me number 18?

I agree on the cells once you reach max, I don't think you should be able to keep picking them up either (for any ammo not just cells!).

I just used cells as an example - obviously it should be for any ammo type.

If you noticed, I did put for any ammo too

The 9 "normal" weapons , Rifle; HLAC; Fireball; Mine Layer; TAG Seeker; Hook; Port-O; Tuba. Tell me number 18?

UR SEXI PIGASS AHAHAH))) It's minstanex btw, it can be added as usual weapons on any maps iirc.

@kojn yeah, 2,5 is too slow, just pulled out a number from my head, the point would still be that CR could be a superslow shooting rifle with huge damage, if you use it on close range you *must* hit, otherwise due the long reload time you will get owned. (similar to rail vs LG fights on QL)
Also I think a sniper rifle should be the weapon chosen for extreme range shooting instead of an energytrail shooter.

I even have +1 idea for sniper rifle (yeah im in creative mood today lol, ideas never hurt) What do you think about the idea that sniper rifle must be scoped in to be able to shoot with precisely? And if you dont scope, then it has a mg-ish spread for that bullet on close range. Yeah i know its pretty COD-quickscopish, but huge fun

So here is the "new" sniper rifle that I could imagine working fine on open maps, and wouldnt be overpowered at all on closed ones:
-no magazine capacity, only "manual" bullet input between the shots (1,5 -2 sec waiting time)
-the right mouse button zooms in
-if you zoom in its accurate and shoots to the center of crosshair
-if you are not scoped in then it has some mediumish spread
-the damage is 99(can never kill an unhurt player) and on headshot its 150 (since headshots on long range are quite hard)

It's a pretty big change, but would make the weapon totally different from nex.

I have to agree with Lee_Stricklin on one thing though, the Nex seems a better candidate for the long range sniper weapon.

FraNcoTirAdoR: Your suggestion for creating greater spread when not zoomed seems quite radical, even a sniper weapon still (often) has iron sights on it, and certainly shoots the same if you're looking through its scope or not. The Nex on the other hand doesn't have a real counterpart, so we can abuse it as much as we want How about inverse damage falloff to promote sniping? Although this might lead to excessive camping...

I think one of the Quake games had an X-ray scope on the Railgun, probably trying to associate the radioactive material to the secondary or something.

Ammo capping/disabling extra pickups is a good idea, we're doing it with (some) health units, why not ammo? That's another question I have, why do only the 25 and 50hp do that? Why not all health/armor units?

I'm not too sure why were still discussing this medium/long distance stuff, this IS NOT THE PROBLEM. The problem's have been about the nex's charging (not using cells when charging), and the double ring confusion for some people. Sniper has never had any major issues that I can see since it got changed except secondary.

So why are people wanting to change the functionality/how they work AGAIN? Please not for the sake of it, this is the problem we had in nexuiz all the time doesn't improve something just brings another round of complaints.

We should be also talking about weapon tweaking now, not completely scrapping, I don't see any valid points for this except for because someone doesn't want sniper to be useful on close quarter maps? Sniper is already hard to use close-up so:

1) What's the problem?
2) Why do a few consistently want to stop player's from using specific weapon's in certain situation's this is just retarded, as long as it's not overpowered then leave it as that.
3) It's up to the mapper what weapon's they choose, if they choose poorly or want that weapon, that's upto them, and this is what the case seems to be about here.

And finally, I can't see FruitieX implementing such radical changes just for the sake of it, also I will abuse him on IRC if he does so he knows better

The problem's have been about the nex's charging (not using cells when charging), and the double ring confusion for some people.

I'm going to keep the double ring system because of one huge issue with switching it to using ammo: To keep the ring full you just charge up once, then rightclick every 1 sec. This is possible whenever you have more than 5 cells.

Sure, this issue is present with the red-ring system too, but at least here you run out of "battery power" much much faster, and if you're out of power (which happens much more often than running out of cells) you can't delay the rot, so at least you have to time it correctly unlike with the cells system.

I tweaked the cvars a bit though so that now the battery power is good for only about 2-3 charged shots instead of 4-5 shots. So you should be able to rack up some 300 dmg if all of them hit, and after that fall back to the 60 dmg uncharged shots until the battery power recharges. To avoid having the player wait around too long though, I made this regeneration time much faster.

I have an issue with the Rifle.
Why the heck can it shoot through anything that is not thick enough? Glass, walls and even doors?!
Space-elevator and Newtonian-nightmare have Rifles - and they need to be removed IMO (obviously cause the maps are open).

Space-elevator: I try to hide to not get hit by that thing in the Crylink room.. what happenend? Jeez I get hit through the door.. <_< Or: In the base on the top of the thing where you spawn (1 cell is there) ; he could not see me from the flag position but he could shoot through that block/wall!?

At Newtonian-nightmare it makes those big shields totally useless (I believe they are against getting spawnkilled/camping protection) but with the Rifle you can simply shoot through them - beside that its kind of hard to take out someone sniping with it cause of the jumppad that only works for the own team.

So please. a) Remove this "feature" or b) replace the Rifle on open space maps with the Nex.

@Mirio: Probably the code cannot detect how thick surface the bullet is going trough, your point makes sense, but i dont see it being abused too much, and I think those transparent walls were added to Newtonian Nightmare to be able to shot through I also played that map, and with high-power zoom sniper rifle is pretty sick there (especially with this good antilag), but nex would be quite much the same too.

@kojn: I just wrote down an idea rofl, not that it would get implemented, but different point of view and balancing ideas might come in handy later, or for other weapons etc, its a brainstorming thread mostly I guess

About the nex charge + battery: are you guys sure that all newbies will understand it, and wont get frustrated? We should also add a third ring for loading the battery through the solar cells, and the 4th that will depend on the cloudyness If the battery will remain, there should be an inbuilt weapon tutorial, just like in Nexuiz 2.5, that will explain very detailed what those rings mean.
If nex wouldnt lose its charge, then it could drain the additional ammo while its charging (as kojn suggested). Now that Frutie has lowered the battery power for 2-3 charges it couldnt be abused.

@Mirio: Probably the code cannot detect how thick surface the bullet is going trough, your point makes sense, but i dont see it being abused too much, and I think those transparent walls were added to Newtonian Nightmare to be able to shot through I also played that map, and with high-power zoom sniper rifle is pretty sick there (especially with this good antilag), but nex would be quite much the same too.

Afaik it can detect it, because it does not go through everything. You can't shot with other weapons through those shields only with Rifle, so I guess you can't do it with Nex too. Thats why I think Nex is better there.

But then you can stack up on cells too easily, that would encourage camping/spammin much more.

@Mirio: Probably the code cannot detect how thick surface the bullet is going trough, your point makes sense, but i dont see it being abused too much, and I think those transparent walls were added to Newtonian Nightmare to be able to shot through I also played that map, and with high-power zoom sniper rifle is pretty sick there (especially with this good antilag), but nex would be quite much the same too.

OT on the balance, but that was a bug, either on the server or the map, but both is fixed. The shields are to protect you from every bullet. Even rifle. It can't pierce it through anymore.

RIP Balancefruit 01/02/2011, gone but not forgotten, rest in peace our departed friend.

It's not as if it's really gone It'll still be in master for sure, if you want to use it you could just execute it >.>

RIP Balancefruit 01/02/2011, gone but not forgotten, rest in peace our departed friend.

A LOT of what he's done lives on in the balance and physics (physics especially) tweaks I've made. Don't worry, not all was lost plus we have Samual tweakn' the game now.

I was being sarcastic.

RIP Balancefruit 01/02/2011, gone but not forgotten, rest in peace our departed friend.

Uh, so for us rarely ever on IRC, what has happened then?

RIP Balancefruit 01/02/2011, gone but not forgotten, rest in peace our departed friend.

Uh, so for us rarely ever on IRC, what has happened then?

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=1542