[SUGGESTION] 2.4.2 feel

From what I understand, Nexuiz 2.4.2 (which is also the version that got me hooked) had the least complaints out of any version I've played and outside of the Crylink being over powered and the shotgun arguably being too puny, it was extremely well balanced. The movement was slightly harder to work with than 2.5, but didn't take long to get used to and made you feel like a bad ass when you mastered it. In my opinion the general play style of Xonotic should be a refined and improved version of this. The physics were awesome, the nex REQUIRED SKILL (thanks to it's long animation that made it feel like you were firing a bow), you could stack health and armor pretty high (current Xonotic git limits health to 200 and armor to 100, health rots after 100, armor never rots), but it rotted if you did that. Going this route would mean that only the Crylink, (maybe) shotgun, Camping Rifle, and HLAC (since they were new in 2.5) would need to be balanced which is a far cry from the mess (CRYLINK IS AN OVERPOWERED HLAC) that is the current git. I think this style combined with the more fun elements introduced in 2.5+ (such as kickback) would almost instantly make this game rock.

I personally like the current movement physics better than the 2.4.2 physics. However, as for balance, I'm tempted to agree. The only thing that I have to say about the balance is that the hagar is underpowered.

2.4.2 was probably one of the best versions of nexuiz I ever played.

2.4.2 was probably one of the best versions of nexuiz I ever played.

Agreed.......

2.4.2 was probably one of the best versions of nexuiz I ever played.

I compared this one directly to the king of arena combat: Unreal Tournament Game of the Year Edition and it put up a hell of a fight against it. UT99 barely edged it out in my book and it was strictly because of minor problems with the Crylink, animation, and some really whack character models as well as a smaller map count out of the box. But damn, for it to have had the balls that it did to take on one of the greatest games ever made though is amazing and it makes it better than most retail games (Quake III, UT3, UT2k4, UC2, etc.) that have a similar play style. 2.5+ initially seemed better, but it eventually became plagued with balance problems and grapple hook CTF just wasn't the same, I also missed hearing Digital Pursuit on the title screen. I believe that if Xonotic is executed right, we may have the first ego shooter ever to knock UT99 off it's throne as best arena style FPS ever made.

I think it's something we should aim for. Maybe even trying to edge out UT3 (which is pretty good imo), but I do agree that the character models really do need some work if it's to edge out even UT99 (which is the best).

Most of the character models just did not sit right with the theme.

I think it's something we should aim for. Maybe even trying to edge out UT3 (which is pretty good imo), but I do agree that the character models really do need some work if it's to edge out even UT99 (which is the best).

Most of the character models just did not sit right with the theme.

UT3 and UT2k4 has been more than edged out. UT99 on the other hand is a different story. Crylink balance, dumpster effect on character models (not maps), as well as a lower map count and no spine deformation is how UT99 edged out Nexuiz 2.4+ in my book. Actual gameplay is on par, maybe even better depending on what style you like and both games have some really good looks.

Most of the things you listed are being fixed, except perhaps spine deformation. Though maybe that too.

So that we all are really on the same page. I want everybody on this forum to play some maps in 2.4.2 campaign again so that they know the feel of it. Ignore anything related to graphics, sound, AI, etc. and focus strictly on the gameplay, feel, and weapon balance. After doing that please post your thoughts on this thread. Make sure you move your configuration file before launching it though, or you won't be able to play it the way it was intended (or maybe even at all). You should be able to find a folder that says Nexuiz in your My Games directory on Windows or hidden inside your home folder on Linux.

Here's the download link for 2.4.2:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/nexuiz/f...p/download

Again ignore graphics, sound, AI etc. and only focus on gameplay, feel, and weapon balance.

I liked that crylink. It was sickly strong, but i prefer it to its current status of almost useless

I have never understand this "phisic feel" you guys talk about.

I can tell the difference on feel from Unreal to any Quake based engine. But from minor different versions from the same game??.

Maybe you guys can tell exactly what feel different. Like, I don't know,.. the character jump less high, or is faster, or something else. Maybe is engineside, but could also be cvar settings, or a very minor change on the gamecode. Hell.. could be a optimization/bugfix that make the whole thing feel faster/more accuracy.

Thought armour was going to be capped to 200..if only 100 then I hope the weapons are not as powerful as before, otherwise it'll become very defensive, they'll need to be tweaked to suit the new health/armour system.

I have never understand this "phisic feel" you guys talk about.

I can tell the difference on feel from Unreal to any Quake based engine. But from minor different versions from the same game??.

Maybe you guys can tell exactly what feel different. Like, I don't know,.. the character jump less high, or is faster, or something else. Maybe is engineside, but could also be cvar settings, or a very minor change on the gamecode. Hell.. could be a optimization/bugfix that make the whole thing feel faster/more accuracy.

Movement was smoother somewhere between Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament 2004 but without the excessive floaty feel. A skilled player could bunnyhop faster and the nex had a longer animation which gave a small delay in firing. Weapon balance was perfect except for the ridiculous Crylink (a damage nerf probably would've fixed it) which had some of the fastest moving projectiles in the game and hit too damn hard. All the weapons also had their purpose and their wasn't any redundancy in them.

Thought armour was going to be capped to 200..if only 100 then I hope the weapons are not as powerful as before, otherwise it'll become very defensive, they'll need to be tweaked to suit the new health/armour system.

These are some annoyances that are bugging the hell out of me in the git:

Machine Gun (which is no longer hit-scan), HLAC, and Crylink all share basically a same mode of fire with only subtle differences

The Camping Rifle has been turned into a noob weapon that has no reload, the ability to punch through walls, and an easily exploitable secondary that can turn it into a full-auto assault rifle

Nex can kill a respawned enemy in two shots and still requires no skill to use

Armor only goes to 100

Health only goes to 200

Physics feel awkward.

Hm. Here's what I propose to fix those issues above:
MG - Make it hitscan, not as strong as 2.5.2.
Rifle: Introduce overheating or kickback (kickback which rises the more you fire)
Nex: Keep damage high, don't make it fall off (it's a sniper rifle), push can fall off, but make projectile "smaller" (so it's more difficult to hit a target).
Armor: Cap armor at 300, rot down to 150.
Health: Cap health at 400, rot down to 200.

Hm. Here's what I propose to fix those issues above:
MG - Make it hitscan, not as strong as 2.5.2.
Rifle: Introduce overheating or kickback (kickback which rises the more you fire)
Nex: Keep damage high, don't make it fall off (it's a sniper rifle), push can fall off, but make projectile "smaller" (so it's more difficult to hit a target).
Armor: Cap armor at 300, rot down to 150.
Health: Cap health at 400, rot down to 200.

The secondary on the current rifle fires a burst and then fires it at about the same rate as UT99's sniper rifle. Tapping the secondary at the right times (which is really easy to do) will effectively make it a fully automatic weapon. The crylink, HLAC, and Machine gun all have a full-auto firing mode and none of them are hit scan and the Crylink (which has no recoil) pretty much owns them all (even though it does less damage than the HLAC). We got both unbalanced weapons and redundant weapons. Unbalanced weapons plagued 2.5.2, but there wasn't any redundancy (they all acted like their own weapon). 2.4.2 only had one real problem: the Crylink. It was excessively powerful thanks to it's high amount of damage and speed, but a nerf on that would have balanced the game. The nex in 2.4.2 wasn't ridiculously easy to use and the HLAC and Camping Rifle (which didn't exist at the time) don't seem like they would be that hard to balance for 2.4.2 style gameplay.

The secondary on the current rifle fires a burst and then fires it at about the same rate as UT99's sniper rifle. Tapping the secondary at the right times (which is really easy to do) will effectively make it a fully automatic weapon.

Proper overheating will prevent that.

The crylink, HLAC, and Machine gun all have a full-auto firing mode and none of them are hit scan and the Crylink (which has no recoil) pretty much owns them all (even though it does less damage than the HLAC).

MG should be hitscan, crylink should stay, dunno about the HLAC.

The nex in 2.4.2 wasn't ridiculously easy to use...

how was it different?

The secondary on the current rifle fires a burst and then fires it at about the same rate as UT99's sniper rifle. Tapping the secondary at the right times (which is really easy to do) will effectively make it a fully automatic weapon.

Proper overheating will prevent that.

The crylink, HLAC, and Machine gun all have a full-auto firing mode and none of them are hit scan and the Crylink (which has no recoil) pretty much owns them all (even though it does less damage than the HLAC).

MG should be hitscan, crylink should stay, dunno about the HLAC.

The nex in 2.4.2 wasn't ridiculously easy to use...

how was it different?

Slightly longer animation at the beginning and end of firing. Made it feel like it was taking forever to fire it if you ever tried to pop off multiple shots. A really wired person would've felt like the gun was lagging in the first shot as well.

I don't like the idea of a particularly long delay before firing, but a little longer in between shots is a good compromise.

I miss the 2.4.2 days.... If they just fixed every complaint from 2.4.2 (there were very very few), we would have a perfect Xonotic.... ^.^

I miss the 2.4.2 days.... If they just fixed every complaint from 2.4.2 (there were very very few), we would have a perfect Xonotic.... ^.^

Agreed. Nerf the Crylink and balance the new weapons that weren't around at the time (which wouldn't be hard at all, could probably just use the 2.5 balance) and we would have a flawless game for the most part.

I don't like the idea of a particularly long delay before firing, but a little longer in between shots is a good compromise.

You would really only notice the delay on the first shot if you were really wired (like if you slammed some Red Bull) because it was so small.

is it possible to make pogo optional server side?

by pogo i mean the auto jump when you hold down jump, after getting used to pogo you feel like a retard when you go any play quake live so it'd be great if i could turn that off

is it possible to make pogo optional server side?

by pogo i mean the auto jump when you hold down jump, after getting used to pogo you feel like a retard when you go any play quake live so it'd be great if i could turn that off

Damn, I feel like a noob now. You can bunny hop JUST BY HOLDING THE SPACEBAR? Wow.

I miss the 2.4.2 days.... If they just fixed every complaint from 2.4.2 (there were very very few), we would have a perfect Xonotic.... ^.^

Agree.

It should be easy to make pogo client side so people can enable/disable it. Same should go for recoil (the weird jumping of the crosshair that doesn't affect accuracy).

Hold on Lee_Stricklin, ima let you finish, but Nexuiz 2.3 had one of the best versions of all time....

Past the slight lol there the thing that's bothered me the most is the cvar that controls the time between shots while switching weapons. I know it was changed to a more reasonable/realistic setting (used to be 0), but it was far more fun to do weapon combos before. Even now after a couple years with it I still feel like I'm lagging between shots. Other than that I do agree with weapon balance from 2.4.2, and imo the best way to fix the crylink is to make it similar to what it was in 2.3. I wish I could remember what thread my earlier rant about weapons was on, it had a lot of similar ideas.