My Future With Xonotic

This is the reason I still play Nexuiz. I have seen a game with perfect (or near perfect) weapon balance, physics, etc. and it was called Nexuiz 2.3. See http://download.cnet.com/Nexuiz/3000-209...94746.html to understand what I mean, only that review for 2.4 was premature as we all found out no one accepted the weapon balance changes in 2.4, which were only worsened in 2.5. Much of the community did not like the change, and therefore quit. Then we come up with the idea we need to fuck with weapon balance more so that people are less pissed, but instead of reverting we go more extreme on the changes we already started. Once the shit hit the fan & Nexuiz was doomed to never be developed again, Xonotic started. This brought on even more weapon balance changes, not to mention why not change the physics too while we're already in the business off pissing people off? Really if Nexuiz/Xonotic would have left the gameplay alone, which it HAD always been known for being awesome at, and focused on image (models, textures, etc) we wouldn't be in this flame war that's been raging for 2 years. I understand it's difficult to please everyone, but a "democratic" system to the development of Nexuiz did work WHEN IT WAS FOLLOWED, which it hasn't been for a few years now. Either way you gotta do what you gotta do, hope something works out.

@MaKR: Hard to get *new* players though if all you do is cater to the bizarre tastes of the few existing players :p

"perfect (or near perfect) weapon balance, physics"... "nexuiz 2.3".... yeahhhhhhh I stopped reading at this point.

"perfect (or near perfect) weapon balance, physics"... "nexuiz 2.3".... yeahhhhhhh I stopped reading at this point.

Insightful.

Granted that may have been an opinionated statement, but it was not an opinion shared by only a few. The reason few people came to Nexuiz was the graphics. People that gave it a chance stuck around because of the gameplay and community. Xonotic has drawn in people at rates higher than Nexuiz did, but how many are still there? And the reason they leave is because it's now lacking in both gameplay and community. Dismiss what I have to say if you want, your choice of course, but unless someone starts listening to the players all you're going to have is a large amount of people joining then quitting shortly after.

This may or may not be a good comparison, but think of this: does an employer want a company with many new employees and a huge turnover rate? Or would they rather hire people a few at a time and take the time to develop them? I don't see how creating a game designed to attract n00bs is going to give you the competitive community, or even a regular community. You'll end up with a community on par with CoD players. Have fun with that.

It's remarkable how little you actually know about Xonotic or Nexuiz development...

agree with everything said here
especially the sandbox mentality its near impossible to find a US server thats not running some retarded config set so far off the 'stock' gameplay its not even funny this absolutely kills competition that and every single fucking (populated)server is insta-gib,on garbage maps no less I don't mind a few rounds of it to keep the snap reflexes sharp but seriously we have 15 other weapons in the game
their needs to be wayyy tighter controls on the content of the game and specifically some of the maps just need to die
this kind of the stuff is why personally despite enjoying the twitch game-play and having played nexuiz for over 3 years is why I don't hang around Xonotic very much no community and to much fragmentation of the game-play due to lack of Administrative oversight you can' be everything to everybody choices are going to need to be made and a stronger focus is needed
if it was me I would start with the following
1. remove support for all Nexuiz assets and maps (sorry to the fans of the old school stuff but the majority of it is broken as fuck or uglier then your once removed fat-sister) this is the big-one their is just just plain old ULGY maps in the majority of the map cycles they have got 2 go
2. lock down what people are allowed to change and "still appear" in the server list _by default_(assign a bitmask to the vars and use it to calculate the percent-modified and then filter those by default)
3. get on steam Green-light (yea I know some people hate it but its a good way to drive the player base up in a hurry)
4. moving forward FOCUS people FOCUS no more random shit like vehicles or insert-name-of-game-mode-ripped-from-COD-or-unreal-here
5. do what Xonotic is about fast-quakespeed gameplay and map knowledge and reflexes quit trying to be everymans-game
6. and certain members of the dev team that I am not gonna name here but have been previously named before need to be given there walking papers this also applys to certain members of the "community" that think that there "opinion" means anything more then shit

agree with everything said here
especially the sandbox mentality its near impossible to find a US server thats not running some retarded config set so far off the 'stock' gameplay its not even funny this absolutely kills competition that and every single fucking (populated)server is insta-gib,on garbage maps no less I don't mind a few rounds of it to keep the snap reflexes sharp but seriously we have 15 other weapons in the game
their needs to be wayyy tighter controls on the content of the game and specifically some of the maps just need to die
this kind of the stuff is why personally despite enjoying the twitch game-play and having played nexuiz for over 3 years is why I don't hang around Xonotic very much no community and to much fragmentation of the game-play due to lack of Administrative oversight you can' be everything to everybody choices are going to need to be made and a stronger focus is needed
if it was me I would start with the following
1. remove support for all Nexuiz assets and maps (sorry to the fans of the old school stuff but the majority of it is broken as fuck or uglier then your once removed fat-sister) this is the big-one their is just just plain old ULGY maps in the majority of the map cycles they have got 2 go
2. lock down what people are allowed to change and "still appear" in the server list _by default_(assign a bitmask to the vars and use it to calculate the percent-modified and then filter those by default)
3. get on steam Green-light (yea I know some people hate it but its a good way to drive the player base up in a hurry)
4. moving forward FOCUS people FOCUS no more random shit like vehicles or insert-name-of-game-mode-ripped-from-COD-or-unreal-here
5. do what Xonotic is about fast-quakespeed gameplay and map knowledge and reflexes quit trying to be everymans-game
6. and certain members of the dev team that I am not gonna name here but have been previously named before need to be given there walking papers this also applys to certain members of the "community" that think that there "opinion" means anything more then shit

wanker play is this way ===========================>

Oh man we need a wanker VIP game mode, I'd for Jetpack with Terrorkill Gibtastic + Freezetag of course oh and Pawnys.

1. remove support for all Nexuiz assets and maps (sorry to the fans of the old school stuff but the majority of it is broken as fuck or uglier then your once removed fat-sister) this is the big-one their is just just plain old ULGY maps in the majority of the map cycles they have got 2 go

That has to happen and it has never been questioned AFAIK. It's a long term goal.

3. get on steam Green-light (yea I know some people hate it but its a good way to drive the player base up in a hurry)

No. Not now. I'm tired of hearing this over and over again. It's a big move and it requires discussion, which I think has yet to happen.

We don't even know if it's possible at all.

6. and certain members of the dev team that I am not gonna name here but have been previously named before need to be given there walking papers this also applys to certain members of the "community" that think that there "opinion" means anything more then shit

What.

<no punctuation except a single comma in a wall of text>

Did anyone tell you already that you are making it very hard to read your posts by refusing to use punctuation?

This kind of shit talk Samual just needs to learn to ignore inside his heart. Save the calories wasted on face palming for coding!

"perfect (or near perfect) weapon balance, physics"... "nexuiz 2.3".... yeahhhhhhh I stopped reading at this point.

Insightful.

But totally legit! Nexuiz is and always was a 3-weapons game.

It's remarkable how little you actually know about Xonotic or Nexuiz development...

I never claimed to know about the development. If I did I would have probably attempted a fork of my own. All I'm claiming to know is what draws users - shiny objects AKA good graphics, and what retains users - fun gameplay and good community. The fun has been sucked out of it for most players who have been around for a while. The clan scene has all but disappeared, and I fail to see how you're going to get that back using this method. As for the title of the post, "My Future With Xonotic", I probably have none. I'm sure that's fine by you, I'll agree to disagree, but it's sad to see what used to be a great community go to shit like this. I remember when making soylent_ctf you were the one who told me at a certain point you have to just get it done despite what people say, and believe me I get that, but we're not talking about just a map and just details. There is a large portion of the community feeling just as cheated by Xonotic as it was by Nexuiz being sold out.

I never claimed to know about the development.

He rather ment the idea-discussion-decision part of a teamwork, not the technical parts.

The fun has been sucked out of it for most players who have been around for a while.

FUD. Don't even bother yourself with the fact that Nexuiz-Xonotic is now around almost since a decade, and people change, don't have that much time etc. The whole thing can get boring after this long time, even if it's super fun.

The clan scene has all but disappeared, and I fail to see how you're going to get that back using this method.

His communication style does no doubt need a lot of work, but soon that'll change.

it's sad to see what used to be a great community go to shit like this.

It's still great as far as I can see, but we're all human, and sometimes overreact. You claim you've been around in the older times too (and yes, I know you were) then you should remember there were larger shitstorms there...

There is a large portion of the community feeling just as cheated by Xonotic as it was by Nexuiz being sold out.

I thought this was a "community driven" game and development, so as soon as I can't see the huge crowds of people complaining here, I take this "large portion" too as FUD.

Is Xonotic going to more-or-less die then?

Dafuq? No, what made you think that?

Dafuq? No, what made you think that?

Well, you kinda get that impression from Samuals' post. I haven't looked at the commit log in the source repo, but I kinda get the impression that Samual is the one who push Xonotic forward. I don't know if it's like that, maybe the extended team is to cheer or other core team members. Either way, loosing Samual feels like a bad idea for me, he tries polish the game and remove the inconsitent stuff. Not saying we just gonna give him total dictatorship over Xonotic, but I urge the core team to accept whatever makes the design descision process more smooth for him as long as his suggestion is sane. The development log[1] was something useful, something maybe I can contribute with, as long as I can get some kind of summerized reports when new stuff gets merged so I get some idea what to investigate in and write about.

1. http://www.xonotic.org/search/wox-blox

I haven't looked at the commit log in the source repo, but I kinda get the impression that Samual is the one who push Xonotic forward.

Then you should check it, because I count at least 6 other developers pushing commits into data branch in the past 2 weeks, and 6 others (not including myself) pushing into maps. gmqcc and Xonstat gets new commits now and then, the latter obviously more. Also, Anitbody makes a good job reporting all his efforts in development.

The development log[1] was something useful, something maybe I can contribute with, as long as I can get some kind of summerized reports when new stuff gets merged so I get some idea what to investigate in and write about.

That's clearly my fault it's not updated since more than a year I think. Discussion about more transparency and more news are already going, with probably the result of setting up a PR team.
Oh, and also while quoting things...

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=3113

We can take this in IRC this weekend if thats OK? ImI would happily help out with it!

I kinda get the impression that Samual is the one who push Xonotic forward. I don't know if it's like that, maybe the extended team is to cheer or other core team members.

Sorry, but WAT? Just this month I've done four duel commentaries and released a huge revamp of XonStat's weapon charts. Sigh.

You missintepret me, I should have said pushing the gamas design.

Im not talking about Xonstats here but the game itself. Xonstats is great, more commentaries is great, but it's not what i intended to include when saying Xonotic here. I told you several times how much I like Xonstat via IRC.

EDIT: Let me clarify what I meant in last post, I get the impression from hearing Samual and reading his posts here that he is the one who pushes Xonotic's design forward. I did not mean that he is the only one contributing any content of use to Xonotic.

... Sigh.

I didn't mean to imply that the rest of the team hasn't been pulling their weight or anything, It just seems to me like Samual was the only person who was pushing forward the game design agressivly. I'm afraid that the game would stagnate at the current design without Samual.

I really value your contributions and I think that XonStat is one of the best features of xonotic from a competitive perspective.

Preface
I tried to refrain from diving into this infested cesspool for some time, however at this point after reading outrageous bullshit (pardon my bad french) like "I would not want to deal with merlijn on the core team anymore" and "I don't want CuBeOwL on the core team in that situation, I feel you're quite poor at design honestly and would make bad decisions." i feel i must say something. While i can certainly see where your frustration comes from Samual, and even if i, when you're not in asshole mode, like you as a person i'm going to be rather harsh here and i apologize beforehand for that.

@ Samual
IMO if you can't refrain from being an abrasive asshole as soon as someone disagrees with you then yeah you should quit any form of official role and that asap. You seem to have grown the idea that you are the only one who can do anything right and at the same time live by the mantra of "do it yourself or stop complaining", quite a predicament for anyone non-Samuel developer that I would say.

In particular i abhor the shitty attitude you take against long time community members and major contributors just on the basis that they don't support every hair brained idea you spawn; or worse still have and implement ideas of their own, like Taoki. And that reload thing you're so horny on bashing; I distinctly remember Taoki trying to fix it and asking for help so he could learn what went wrong; and while I and a few others collaborated with him to do so, you just had to go change the code in question yourself despite knowing that this was going on. How on earth can you expect ppl to learn from their mistakes when you act like that? Was the merge premature? Sure, it was tested but obviously not enough. Was it the end of the world and something its original author should be forever condemned for ever having coded? Hell no. Its real impact was minimal; the only blame that can be cast in the matter is on me since I was the one responsible for merging, and ergo quality checking, it.

I know its very unlikely you'll (thats you Samual) be able to read this without going all nutcake and tbh this post is, tough directed in form , (mainly) towards you, its as much intended for everyone else. At this point you lost any respect i ever had for you as a developer; any acidic verbal puke you feel the need to toss my way feel free if it makes you feel better! I will surely read it.

@ "Oh noes no more agressive game design"
I think this the single best thing that could happen to xonotic; as CuBe0wL has so eloquently pointed out the very soul of Nexuiz-Xonotic, for many at least, lay in the very communal development form it (at least used to) have. As such its development stagnates fast under the thumb of any would be despot in a position of power. Will it no longer be aggressively driven towards a particular, non-negotiable, goal without Samual at the rudder? quite likely. Will development stop? hell no; i would suspect given some time and some effort into better integrating community derived development, Xonotic's development pace would speed up, quite a bit.

Oh hey there, Samual, it's good i could catch you here, cuz i have a question... What Is Your Future With Xonotic?
Ha, ha, ha, oh man, i just couldn't resist. *slaps his knees*

I'd write some thoughts and maybe asked a few questions, but i suspect that this thread wasn't made for such purpose.
In fact, this threads sounds almost exactly like the one Mirio did sometime ago... "It's okay for me to ban you cause i'm tired of your stupid questions", where "stupid" is defined by Mirio.

What's your point, Harmata?