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[SUGGESTION] Noob friendly options

#1
Lightbulb 
Everybody knows Xonotic has a steep learning curve and orders of magnitude in abilities between noobs and pros. I like this because it gives a constant pressure to improve your game to compete... but;

Countless times I've seen newbs join, seem enthusiastic about the game, go "wow" while spectating etc, then play a match or two get utterly destroyed and subsequently quit forever. I am convinced it's because they feel so completely out-gunned or that the game is rife with cheats. It seems to a new player to be an insurmountable obstacle even to learn the basics just to be able to survive long enough to pick up a weapon let alone compete against pros who already have a rocket on the way as you spawn. Perhaps this is why there are so many minsta/hook players (dodges kettle of fish)

I've tried to train/tutor newbs before and usually they just end up frustrated they can't do all 10,000 things at once. I've tried to pussy foot around noobs, using laser only, not picking up items, even letting them kill me occasionally just so they won't instantly RQ and stand a chance to get established long enough to stay long term. Some think I'm mocking them or whatever and get mad so it backfires too.

What I am suggesting is some kind of votable settings which would allow us to simplify the game for new players' first games. Off the top of my head things like:

* disabling/replacing megas
* disabling all health/armour pickups
* introducing a votable time delay between switching, discouraging combos - as most noobs don't have keybinds, stick to one weapon, takes them a while to learn binds
* giving infinite ammo/all weps on spawn
* disabling respawn sfx
* Enabling the mega timer bar notifier in any game mode
* no stacking above 100/100

Forgive my ignorance if there are already vars to do this as I'm not a game techie, I just like to kill ppl. A combination of some of these options might allow noobs to stand half a chance, get a frag to feel good about and make them enthusiastic to progress to the real game.

kthxbye
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#2
We need some mutators to make sure new players aren't mashed up. Personally I think that the should spawn with a 100/100 stack and can see all the timers of weapons close to them. I agree with no mega and no strength, so they can just focus on shooting and dodging with each weapon.
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#3
There are basically two reasons why Xonotic is not noob friendly:

1. There is no in-game tutorial.
2. There are no different servers for skilled and less skilled players.

Fix this and much more beginners will stay.
[Image: 11878.png]
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#4
Another problem is people immediately jumping into the online multiplayer games without at least attempting to play the single player. OK, some people might not like the idea of playing bots but it's better to learn the weapons first against bots before fighting real players. Bots are much more welcoming than real players, it's sad but it's true.
I'm at least a reasonably tolerable person to be around - Narcopic
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#5
(01-11-2013, 08:07 AM)Diomedes Wrote: There are basically two reasons why Xonotic is not noob friendly:

1. There is no in-game tutorial.
2. There are no different servers for skilled and less skilled players.

Fix this and much more beginners will stay.

In fact there is. For example, Beginner's Delight DM, Minsta servers, Overkill and Vehicle all seem to attract the newbies.
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#6
What you have described is something like arena. Overkill/minstagib seems to do the job also.

Absence of tutorial sucks, but this is old news.
Different skills - not enough people sadly.

Players are not welcoming > most noobs do not communicate

I have always wondered why do noobs leave. IMO they just don't understand it and they feel confused/frustrated.
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#7
(01-11-2013, 12:24 PM)frostwyrm333 Wrote: Players are not welcoming > most noobs do not communicate

I have always wondered why do noobs leave. IMO they just don't understand it and they feel confused/frustrated.

The very fact that it is common place for people to be labelled as 'noobs' and that it has derogatory connotations can come across as unwelcoming. How many times does someone actually call someone 'noob' online? That is unwelcoming and dehumanising and I really wish people wouldn't do it. I know it's common throughout the Internet in a way that it isn't in real life but that doesn't mean it should be perpetuated.
I'm at least a reasonably tolerable person to be around - Narcopic
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#8
noobs are noobs. It's not derogatory, its a fact. I don't see people mocking noobs in xonotic anyway.
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#9
i think diomedes is spot-on.

hopefully we'll have a matchmaking system soon.

(01-11-2013, 05:08 PM)frostwyrm333 Wrote: noobs are noobs. It's not derogatory, its a fact. I don't see people mocking noobs in xonotic anyway.
noob is derogatory, newb, newbie, or new player are not.
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#10
suddenly, I feel horrible about myself
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#11
Definitely this issue is simply the lack of players...

Take myself as an example, I'm quite a low-skilled player and thanks to my location I generally have to put up with matches against skilled players with a ping >150...
And not most new players are willing to go through all of that to learn to play; coming from other shooter games like COD etc. Where the learning curve is very small and there are lots of players around most of the time.

I'd say that if we had more players/more servers, we could definitely get some even matches going on.
A matchmaking system based on elo would be nice as well...
[Image: 12766.png]
Sucks at weapons
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#12
In fact, there is even a difference in meaning between "newbie" and "noob". A newbie is a player who just started playing and has a lot to learn. A noob is someone who has been playing a lot already, but still plays like a beginner. So technically, using noob to describe a new player is not only derogatory, it's plain wrong.
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#13
maybe server holders could (if they have not already) display notes to players in game with info and greetings to new players , and even remind normal players from time to time to help new nerds.

also people who sit in on irc channels where they can see people entering or leaving the server could also say hello to people they dont know and simply ask them if they are new and need help.

t



:^
[Image: 227.png]
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#14
Quote:what I am suggesting is some kind of votable settings which would allow us to simplify the game for new players' first games.
And who will vote them, newbies? Also, what's the point of removing all of that, if no matter how long will they play on such servers they will not become better and still will have to deal with everything that was removed on other servers. I think that such nanny measures will not do good, better create more tips and a wiki/PDF manual.
Quote:In fact, there is even a difference in meaning between "newbie" and "noob". A newbie is a player who just started playing and has a lot to learn. A noob is someone who has been playing a lot already, but still plays like a beginner. So technically, using noob to describe a new player is not only derogatory, it's plain wrong.
No. "Noob" is just another form of the word "newbie". Like "own" and "pwn". It's just much quicker to write than the full word. "Someone who has been playing a lot already, but still plays like a beginner" could be a casual who just don't want to become better/don't have enough time do to it, or simply a bad player. But it's not like there's a strict hierarchy or something.
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#15
(01-17-2013, 11:05 AM)Harmata Wrote:
Quote:In fact, there is even a difference in meaning between "newbie" and "noob". A newbie is a player who just started playing and has a lot to learn. A noob is someone who has been playing a lot already, but still plays like a beginner. So technically, using noob to describe a new player is not only derogatory, it's plain wrong.
No. "Noob" is just another form of the word "newbie". Like "own" and "pwn". It's just much quicker to write than the full word. "Someone who has been playing a lot already, but still plays like a beginner" could be a casual who just don't want to become better/don't have enough time do to it, or simply a bad player. But it's not like there's a strict hierarchy or something.

The urban dictionary's top entry for "Noob" begs to differ: http://noob.urbanup.com/2568674

And so does the top entry for "newbie": http://newbie.urbanup.com/1639116
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#16
ahh ... this is a tricky situation

[Image: 3hns0l5G9DeqMCeJ3bZMRO]

I was reading a book that explained why call of duty had rather good game design when it came to catering for noobies ... they did this by adding the grenade launcher (nube toob) a weapon that is effective ... does not need much aim ... and is easy to figure out
It is limited by the fact that you only get 2 shots per life ... newbs ... who die alot ... use this allot ... however more experienced players usually do not die as often ... and thus ... they dont get as much benefit from the tuuuube (it also prevents them from getting scopes for their guns)

The other reason people may fail to take intrest in the game ... is a lack of unlockables ... unlockable things give a goal or a drive to work towards ... as apposed to right now where the only goal is get a higher score ...
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#17
Quote:Urban Dictionary
Pffff, duuuude.
Quote:the only goal is get a higher score
Only if you yourself chose this goal. Players should learn to enjoy the gameplay, the visuals, the company, not always be in 2 states: i'm happy cause i won, and i'm sad cause this game sucks.
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#18
(01-17-2013, 07:10 PM)hutty Wrote: The other reason people may fail to take intrest in the game ... is a lack of unlockables ... unlockable things give a goal or a drive to work towards ... as apposed to right now where the only goal is get a higher score ...
I think elo/Xonstats is enough, I don't think it's worth adding things like achievements/unlockables.
[Image: 10834.png]
[Image: favicon-vflZlzSbU.ico] #xonotic.au / #XDF on QuakeNET
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#19
not for people who dont know they are there
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#20
(01-17-2013, 07:10 PM)hutty Wrote: ahh ... this is a tricky situation

[Image: 3hns0l5G9DeqMCeJ3bZMRO]

I was reading a book that explained why call of duty had rather good game design when it came to catering for noobies ... they did this by adding the grenade launcher (nube toob) a weapon that is effective ... does not need much aim ... and is easy to figure out
It is limited by the fact that you only get 2 shots per life ... newbs ... who die alot ... use this allot ... however more experienced players usually do not die as often ... and thus ... they dont get as much benefit from the tuuuube (it also prevents them from getting scopes for their guns)

The other reason people may fail to take intrest in the game ... is a lack of unlockables ... unlockable things give a goal or a drive to work towards ... as apposed to right now where the only goal is get a higher score ...

What book is it? I'm not going to buy it of course.
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#21
i beileive its called Level Up the guide to great video game design ... its good ... not great ... but good
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