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[NEED HELP] game modes/mods/types clarification

#1
I'm trying to update our wiki to help new players understand various game types/modes/mods, and noticed that the use of these terms is somewhat chaotic:

Game "types" are the ones we can choose from the Create menu in the game. There are: Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, CTF, Clan Arena, Race CTS, etc. Our wiki currently calls it game "modes".

However, in the servers menu, the server list has categories Overkill "Mode", InstaGib "Mode", Defrag "Mode". To add to the confusion, all these require "mods" code to run.

And in the server list category "Modified Servers", we see a bunch of servers running "mods", which could be an alternative set of configs, or a totally different branch of code.

I myself am confused, too. Say, to run a private server to play Instagib+Hook like the SMB server, I'm surprised to find out that merely checking Instagib and Hook in the Mutator isn't enough -- it actually requires running different code. Which branch is it? Where do I find info about it?

I would like to try to put some clarification/explanation to our wiki.

Can we unify how we call things? Or can somebody help come up with some nomenclature that is least confusing?
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#2
Also, should Vehicles be a "mod", a "mode", or are we coding it into a "type" in the future?
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#3
I got the following clarification from Mario in IRC:

Quote:there are no "mods" for this game, despite popular belief
but on your topic, game modes and game types are the same thing generally
vehicles aren't a mode or anything under that class
they're something a map can support by placing them down
any map in any mode can have them
the correct term for things like instagib is mutator, but many prefer mod for some reason
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#4
My primary intention here is to write some wiki pages to help players understand what is what in the Xonotic world.

I'm also hoping in the process, we can establish a canonical way of calling things.

1. Vehicles

Mario, thank you for the clarification. I didn't know vehicle support was merged into the trunk. Now I can finally practice piloting those vehicles.

My first impression of vehicles was similar to nexball. It's a silly, funny, and fun game type that's so different from the core Xonotic game play. It almost feels like it should be its own game type -- vehicle CTF (or whatever name we call it, say warfare). Having it's own game type allows a server to host vehicle maps, among regular maps, and players can choose to play it.

I understand what you mean by any map in any mode can have vehicle, but I can't picture vehicle working for other game modes (well I guess vehicle DM would be like H1Z1 -- I've never played it so I could be wrong). tZork also commented that it's impractical to use those in other game types due to resource constraints.

2. Overkill

Overkill is even more confusing.

Until Martin added the explanation to the wiki recently, I had been wondering why my skills didn't apply on those overkill servers.

About "mod": you actually referred to it as some kind of "mod" before. What about SMB "mod"pack?

This post suggests it's merged into the trunk, so I assume it'll become a game type at some point. Yes?

3. Others

There are servers providing different experiences:
  • Shotgun only
  • Instagib+Hook
  • many other "Modified servers"

I assume all of these use the standard code but a different set of *.cfg.

What shall we call them? "Mods"?
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#5
As I said before, overkill, instagib, shotgun arena and co are mutators, not "mods".

Overkill started as a large modification of Xonotic game play, probably in hopes to make something fun and unique. It has since become an official mutator in Xonotic.
While its game play remains very different, it still isn't considered a mod.

The SMB modpack is a tough topic, as it was intended to be a way to test a lot of the experimental branches in one source base. It has since gained some unique features that may never make it into the main game (such as the Freeze mutator).
Currently, the best way to describe it is: It's a set of rejected and experimental mutators.

Modified servers is the best description for most servers that aren't using the default settings. Having separate categories for mutators like shotgun arena at this stage would be silly, as there's only 1 or 2 servers running it.


As for vehicles, vehicle onslaught would be very fun if ons was cleaned up a bit (plus, some decent maps would help).
[Image: 230.png]
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#6
You can activate the Overkill mod with g_overkill, It's strange how it isn't added to mutators.
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#7
It isn't in the Mutators menu, as it requires a custom balance configuration (more than just g_overkill 1).
[Image: 230.png]
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#8
vehicles & overkill (and minsta and.. well everything cept dm if you go back enough xD) started as "mods" as in they begun life as side projects. The moniker is usually used to denote sth that is a aftermarket modification; not surprisingly the term became pretty weird in game based around no market and a lot of modification. AAaaaanyway, the point being is, those things was called mods as long as they were developed outside main nexonotix, once included they are no longer modifications.

(05-09-2016, 03:52 AM)Mario Wrote: Overkill started as a large modification of Xonotic game play, probably in hopes to make something fun and unique. It has since become an official mutator in Xonotic.
While its game play remains very different, it still isn't considered a mod.
It was pretty much, originally, an attempt to merge insta and vanilla xonotic. also, overkill used to work just fine as a mutator, but since it reuses rather than bloats, it was decided it needs to be put in quarantine /salt Wink
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#9
As an update, I added the explanation of the modes/types/mutators/mods, as well as server types.

Can somebody help verify the correctness of this wiki section? Please also check the special servers page ad mods page in that section.
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#10
I always thought a "mod" was a set of specific mutators, configs and custom assets. Overkill has always been called a mod, never a mutator. Though we also still call the sniper rifle nex and not vortex or whatever it's been renamed to Wink so we might be a bit backwards in that.

As for enabling Overkill, I suggest you look at https://github.com/martin-t/xonotic-conf...server.cfg and https://github.com/RomanSixty/xonotic-co...server.cfg . The minor differences being the subjects of a religious war. (They're not really noticeable unless you know what to look for anyway) The config was put together in a hurry a year ago and might need some cleaning up. I'll try to look into it some time soon.

Also, calling reloading "legacy" (https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic/wikis...ll_Setting) makes me feel a little offended. It adds a lot of strategy into the gameplay. The charging system is just too dumbed down.
[Image: 30381.jpg]

<packer> when i see martin-t's name my blood pressure increases
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#11
Here's how I would define between a mutator, mod and a mode:

Mutator = An individual setting that changes gameplay, but not necessarily the metagame or the look of the game. For example:
  • Infinite ammo
  • Low gravity
  • Dodge
  • Double jump

Mod = Changes metagame, rules or look of the game entirely, for example:
  • New toys -> Weapons that don't exist in the core game.
  • Clan Arena -> Spawn with full stack/arsenal, round based gameplay. No pickups.
  • Instagib -> Spawn with a one hit kill vortex with a blaster for secondary. No pickups besides ammo.
  • Overkill -> Spawn with three high dmg hitscan weapons, no projectiles besides hand grenades which you also spawn with. Only armor and health pickups.
  • Defrag -> Can't damage or touch enemies. You can only compete by completing the obstacle course ahead faster than others.
  • In general -> Modifying weapon roles and balance or changing the movement.
  • In general -> Remodeling and retexturing the visuals of the game or changing sound effects.

Mode = Changes only rules or objectives, but not the metagame or core features. For example:
  • Deathmatch -> Player with most frags wins. Time or frag limit optional. Kill anyone that moves.
  • Duel -> 1v1 Deathmatch, player with most frags wins. Time or frag limit optional. Only one opponent.
  • TDM -> Deathmatch with teams. Killing team mates results with an equivalent amount of negative score.
  • CTF -> Team Deathmatch on a team/base/center divided maps where scoreboard counts flag captures instead of frags. Significance of team killing optional.
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#12
(06-08-2016, 03:03 AM)Smilecythe Wrote: Here's how I would define between a mutator, mod and a mode:

Mutator = An individual setting that changes gameplay, but not necessarily the metagame or the look of the game. For example:
  • Infinite ammo
  • Low gravity
  • Dodge
  • Double jump

Mod = Changes metagame, rules or look of the game entirely, for example:
  • New toys -> Weapons that don't exist in the core game.
  • Clan Arena -> Spawn with full stack/arsenal, round based gameplay. No pickups.
  • Instagib -> Spawn with a one hit kill vortex with a blaster for secondary. No pickups besides ammo.
  • Overkill -> Spawn with three high dmg hitscan weapons, no projectiles besides hand grenades which you also spawn with. Only armor and health pickups.
  • Defrag -> Can't damage or touch enemies. You can only compete by completing the obstacle course ahead faster than others.
  • In general -> Modifying weapon roles and balance or changing the movement.
  • In general -> Remodeling and retexturing the visuals of the game or changing sound effects.

Mode = Changes only rules or objectives, but not the metagame or core features. For example:
  • Deathmatch -> Player with most frags wins. Time or frag limit optional. Kill anyone that moves.
  • Duel -> 1v1 Deathmatch, player with most frags wins. Time or frag limit optional. Only one opponent.
  • TDM -> Deathmatch with teams. Killing team mates results with an equivalent amount of negative score.
  • CTF -> Team Deathmatch on a team/base/center divided maps where scoreboard counts flag captures instead of frags. Significance of team killing optional.

I think some items there in your list could fall in multiple categories. CA is one of the examples (mod and mode).
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#13
(06-08-2016, 04:49 AM)dekrY Wrote: CA is one of the examples (mod and mode).
I would categorize it as a mod, because that's it's history all the way from Ra3/Q3 and perhaps further back. I would also categorize it as a mod, because of how the round system and lack of item control changes the depth and intellectual complexity of teamplay and positioning. Also, you may have noticed after a while of playing CA that playing with uneven teams is more advantageous to the team that has more players. This is actually often reversed in modes that count frags in the scoreboard, where recovery, collecting and stacking is essential. What ever actions you do in a round of CA has no effect on the next round, because everyone spawns fresh and equal.

In CTF the objective might be different, but even there the metagame is not much different from regular TDM. A well organized team can easily lock a map from your team. Every flag steal, every amount of dealt and received damage, every powerup steal, every armor and weapon you get or lose throughout the match makes a difference. If you find your team in this situation, it's not because the game is uneven/unfair, but because you haven't made enough difference as a team. Kinda like a single round in CA, if you're useless then it'll affect the whole team. You can think of a match of any regular mode DM/CTF/Duel/etc.. as a one huge round.

Clan arena flips the board around and is really just a mod in every which way that I see it Smile
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#14
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions. I'll put on my TODO and work on that.

However, it's important that we come up with a unified way to categorize these, so the menu, the server names, the tutorials/wikis/forums, and the back-end code can be consistent.

Smilecythe, I like your language of distinguishing those, in general. One thing I'm thinking -- let's say CA is now a mod; do you think it would be clear enough to users, if they want to play CTF, they choose it from one menu, and when they want to plan Clan Arena, they need to go to another menu to choose it?

martin-t, I copied the languages from some saved file so no ill intention meant.
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