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Poll: Do you like the current direction of balanceFruit.cfg
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Yes
61.36%
27 61.36%
No
38.64%
17 38.64%
Total 44 vote(s) 100%
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balanceFruit.cfg

#51
That's not OP.
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

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#52
OP?
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#53
An explosion radius on a sniper gun? What could go wrong?
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

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#54
Actually the explosions are due purely to the fact that it's an action movie. :p

They could be shooting spit wads at each and there'd be pyrotechnics.
(04-01-2010, 11:21 AM)Roanoke Wrote: Yes, beveled edges are more futuristic. Like BSG and their beveled paper.
But only on one edge.
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#55
Doesn't it work totally as the nex does now, in that case?
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

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#56
It isn't meant to fire xplosions, stop taking everything literally.

I meant the 'rail/tracer' type effect, that is what flying_steel meant so it would fire bullets/slugs and have that effect..so you can still see where your shots are going.
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#57
No the Nex doesn't have separate headshot damage or the ability to shoot through walls.

The former allows it to be more balanced as a sniper weapon, the later is also a property of the eraser gun from the movie (which throughout the film is used to shoot through walls, killing people inside of buildings wallhack style).

Also, the Rifle doesn't rely on the fusion of high damage + long refire time, making imbalanced combos not such a big problem relative to the Nex.
(04-01-2010, 11:21 AM)Roanoke Wrote: Yes, beveled edges are more futuristic. Like BSG and their beveled paper.
But only on one edge.
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#58
(07-20-2010, 05:08 PM)Flying Steel Wrote: No the Nex doesn't have separate headshot damage or the ability to shoot through walls.

The former allows it to be more balanced as a sniper weapon, the later is also a property of the eraser gun from the movie (which throughout the film is used to shoot through walls, killing people inside of buildings wallhack style).
Which is exactly why we don't need nex. I cannot stress enough how it is a bad idea to have several guns doing the same thing (four rapid fire weapons, two sniper weapons, etc.)

(07-20-2010, 05:08 PM)Flying Steel Wrote: Also, the Rifle doesn't rely on the fusion of high damage + long refire time, making imbalanced combos not such a big problem relative to the Nex.
Rifle can do more damage than nex for a smaller refire time.
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

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#59
Update (hope I'm not repeating myself from previous updates!):

Laser projectile speed upped back a bit from 2000 to 4500.

Shotgun melee now is way easier to hit with because it traces approximately along the shotgun swing path. It however also lowers damage towards the end of the anim.

Electro primary has a 0.75x force, previous force was indeed a bit on the higher side.
Electro blobs fire at a faster rate, have a bigger radius (250, iirc what it was in Nexuiz), slighly lower damage (40 per blob), higher z speed, just slighly lower horizontal speed. They should be MUCH more useful now, at least I'm finding them a lot more useful Smile

Mortar primary/secondary have identical flight paths now, with higher z speed

Rifle has a somewhat fast refire rate of 0.8s, secondary simply zooms in just as the nex.

Lifetimes of projectiles tweaked to max 5 seconds to prevent excessive jumppad spamming of them.


That should be all for now, adding laser secondary gauntlet mode tomorrow, testing will tell if we should keep both melee modes. (if not, the gauntlet will go, because the shotgun melee is EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC WINNNNNNN Big Grin)
(07-20-2010, 01:37 PM)Roanoke Wrote: This is because they were not properly done. Properly used (and sticky) they can be quite effective.

I'm just thnking they [electro blobs] easily would become TOO effective...
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#60
Sounds good. I will try to test this again as soon as possible.

Again I would emphasize that having weapons that can push enemies with "splash" push (meaning no direct hit needed) even on mid-range is very important. That's why I a) am against a slow laser - but you made it faster already, FruitieX, thx, gotta check if it is good for that again, and I b) vote for having a replacement of the old mortar push effect. On every space map (and I take it space maps WILL be part of Xonotic) pushing people off the map is an elementary part of the gameplay. I know the nex has push force too but you can only push people AWAY from you. The rocket launcher is a bit too slow on mid-range, since pushing people requires very accurate placement of the detonation and that is difficult on mid-range with a weapon like that.

I wonder how I am confusing you, kojn, with my push weapon thingy? Don't you use the push effect of weapons?
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#61
(07-20-2010, 07:56 PM)FruitieX Wrote: That should be all for now, adding laser secondary gauntlet mode tomorrow, testing will tell if we should keep both melee modes. (if not, the gauntlet will go, because the shotgun melee is EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC EPIC WINNNNNNN Big Grin)

Noooooooo! Don't say that. Melee laser will work, you just have to believe! Angel

Laser secondary really is THE perfect place for a melee attack. It is an ammo-less starting weapon and backup weapon and it lacks an actual secondary attack. You could also lunge at opponents with primary, then slash with secondary. Further--

Force Push + Force Jump + Laser Slice = Jedi
(04-01-2010, 11:21 AM)Roanoke Wrote: Yes, beveled edges are more futuristic. Like BSG and their beveled paper.
But only on one edge.
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#62
I'm sorry, but what about this as a secondary for the laser? (The discussion follows, I haven't really cheched what was thought of that idea later on).
I agree with the logic of having a melee attack with the default weapon, but I like most that condenser idea.

About the electro: sticky electro balls makes way more sense than mortar's grenades.
What about making ignited electro balls implode dragging the people around them instead of exploding?
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#63
The thing is with the current electro, you can now combo with the lg beam, you need to actually lead a little to combo with the balls as they bounce slightly, with sticky you'd just simply place and shoot making the combo really too easy to use.

Good job on the shotgun secondary melee, and the sniper rifle scope + primary Smile
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#64
charging as laser secondary should really be considered.

i also dont like the sticky mortar grenades. the mortar always was a classic grenade launcher with immediately exploding or bouncing grenades, that was fine. sticky grenades are... not fitting to the mortar imo. sticky electro blobs make much more sense.
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#65
Again you are going to have two weapons doing the same thing, mortar and RL, and then having a electro combo that is going to be really very powerful combined with primary if you use sticky electro with it imo, the problem also is you really need to come to the server to help test these changes playing against actual opponents also.
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#66
although the effect of mortar and rl may be the same, they feel completely different. i dont see why the mortar should be changed.

besides, the range of the mortar is way too short. it is like max. 20m, you can throw a grenade with your arm farther away. modern grenade launchers have a range of 200m and more..... those 20m feel wrong. the grenade is also too slow imo.
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#67
I don't see that RL and old Mortar were so similar. Mortar would deliver fast splash damage, RL would travel longer but you'd be able to detonate the rocket mid-air. Therefore Mortar is a classical ground attack weapon, while RL is good for flying targets.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#68
I agree with you! RL and Mortar are not just the same! They're different! Halogene explained it very well!
I think most of us don't like the NEW mortar! Wink
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#69
Well to be honest I think the new mortar is nice too. I could live with the new mortar if we have some other weapon that compensates for the "push people away" effect that gets lost by making grenades sticky.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#70
Sigh, I've only seen Halogene out of you, actually come to the server and play with the weapons.

What's the big deal with this push weapon shit? The game isn't about pushing people around, it's about killing..you already got a laser to push people around with, RL can push people around with, the current mortar pushes people around..I really don't get the reason to have something do that specifically.

Also, the LG primary force had to be reduced, because of the exact problem that it was able to push people away WAY too easily, and was very annoying, almost like being locked down when moving, yes I know it's not a splash weapon..except with combo, but still was very frustrating none the less.

I also feel though the nade made fire slightly too slow so it could be sped up a little bit.

The electro is already a very offensive weapon now, which makes the mortar more defensive then offensive and using it is a bit more tactical because of the sticky grenades, but due to this they are very strong and have a big explosion/radius..also the force on them is strong too.
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#71
Well, I prefer the word "fragging" instead of "killing". :o) You are right, the current (Nexuiz) mortar is used for, or effective at, pushing people around - and if that's gone because the grenades are sticky now (with the sticky one you can't really push people effectively) I think we'd need another one that replaces this pushing function. To me, fragging people is fun, but it could use some variety. If you use pushing weapons you can put them in a place where you can more conveniently hit them with other weapons (my favorite was the laser/Nex combo up to now). And, you can push people off the map, where possible. From my point of view, this adds a lot of variety to the standard gameplay (e.g. decreasing hitpoints below zero). Not everybody plays this game in order to frag as many people as possible in the shortest time. Some players have fun fragging in a different way.

If I am the only one that feels we need to maintain the "push around" element, then fine, never mind me. But I got the impression that a lot of people that I played with so far found this most amusing too.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#72
Kojn, we all operate under different constraints (for me, it is my job + family). That I haven't found the time to join you guys is not an indication that I won't. I just need some time to get it compiled! This project is moving fast, and it sucks that I can't put into it everything that I want to, but at least I am here trying to provide constructive criticism.
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#73
Antibody this was not posted at you specifically Smile, or people who have posted yet don't have time to test, but rather people who are more then likely not going to test and happen to wade into this thread and want some kind of instant changes without considering all of the effort put in already to balance stuff, frutiex has put more effort in then me, but still annoying to see the same things happen.

I already know some people will not like some of the stuff in this balance but I know some will, but any kind of 'that sucks' kind of stuff I will just start to ignore and not care to ask FrutieX to change values for people.

Because of this there's always going to be something that the minority is not going to like, but from the current poll results it shows so far that this balance atleast is going in the right direction, what's a bit depressing is the fact only 13 people voted so far...I guess the upside is that of those 13 i'm guessing nearly everyone of them actually has properly tried this in some way or another.

As for the electro I will atleast try it wil sticky balls anyway to see what it's like.
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#74
(07-21-2010, 03:49 AM)kojn^ Wrote: The thing is with the current electro, you can now combo with the lg beam, you need to actually lead a little to combo with the balls as they bounce slightly, with sticky you'd just simply place and shoot making the combo really too easy to use.

Some things about this:
A. In my balance, electro is not LG (though it will likely become LG because the current primary is lame)
B. I've personally never had any difficulty to set off electro balls. In addition, if it's easy for one person to set them off, it's easy for everyone to set them off. Electro balls can be set off by anything that has an explosion radius.
C. The range of electro balls, while not changed in terms of cvars, is much shorter because the balls do not bounce, they just stick right when they land.

Glad to hear you will be trying out my branch though.
(07-18-2010, 10:59 AM)Flying Steel Wrote: How could anyone with ADHD tell its a high damage weapon if it wasn't a gigantic metal cock fucking the map whenever a player gets within 3 meters of a wall?

[Image: di-712770583645.png]
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#75
The trouble is without a release there's a fair amount of things you have to do before you can test.

I've never used Git or compiled Nexuiz/Xonotic before so there's some learning, trial and error and downloading I'm doing, which takes time.

What's the server name / address by the way?
(04-01-2010, 11:21 AM)Roanoke Wrote: Yes, beveled edges are more futuristic. Like BSG and their beveled paper.
But only on one edge.
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