In which a discussion on nex strength gets heated

I hear more people complain that the shotgun is too weak than complain that it is too strong. Obviously as a starting weapon, it's pretty powerful. But people that just started playing Xonotic are used to the shotgun being a pick up weapon from other games, so they are used to that kind of shotty power.

As for the nex, I've watched so many hours of really good players dueling. I've never once seen someone dominate with just the nex. You'd think if it was OP, there would be players that have mastered the art of the fully charged peak shot to the point of total dominance. However, the nex is probably the 1 gun you need in your arsenal to stand a chance since it deals so much combo damage, and peak shots can make charging into battle a better idea.

My views:

• The Nex is slightly overpowered (peak energy could be reduced by 10-15hp and the recharge time could be increased by 10%)
  
• The shotgun is slightly underpowered (dmg could be increased by 7-10hp, spread could be made slightly wider to compensate for increased power)
  
• The rocket launcher is slightly too slow (speed could be increased by 10-15%)

I'd also like to see some kind of cool-down for the hagar (it's just to insane atm!). Xonotic is certainly not a 1 weapon game, it's just that the Nex is a very good weapon. Noobs may need to be told this, but the pros use other weapons a lot too!

Just to show how different views can be i think that:
RL should have no guidance, be much slower and do 100-150 dmg on a direct hit
Nex should have no charge and do abt 90 DPS at a 1s refire

Obviously not at all in line with current balance efforts and im not going to try to push for it either - just some perspective

I don't understand where some of these opinions on balance are coming from. Some people don't cite any examples of when a weapon is over/under powered, they just say they want a nerf or buff.

Honestly, I think if more people spent time watching others play, they would see proficiency with weapons that they had previously concluded to be underpowered.

Just to show how different views can be i think that:
RL should have no guidance, be much slower and do 100-150 dmg on a direct hit
Nex should have no charge and do abt 90 DPS at a 1s refire

Obviously not at all in line with current balance efforts and im not going to try to push for it either - just some perspective

With a slower nex refire rate, 1.2-1.5s this actually sounds great. You really shouldn't post this, people might get stupid ideas

RL should have no guidance, be much slower and do 100-150 dmg on a direct hit
Nex should have no charge and do abt 90 DPS at a 1s refire

I like the idea about the Nex. I'd support that. I'm not so sure about the rocket launcher though.

Imo, your RL idea would work okay for pro matches/duels (I suppose you could get away with 100-150 dmg on a direct hit considering there's no guidance), but I think my idea should be put in place on standard public servers.

Hey you know what, how about I make a video show-casing my weapons changes? And how about you make one with your weapons changes too, tZork? My upload speeds are very slow, so I'll try and make my vid short and sweet.

You really shouldn't post this, people might get stupid ideas

Stupid ideas? LET'S MAEK TEH ROCKET HAV 32000 DMG + A REFIR OF 400.

Why would anyone want to get rid of the nex charge? That would make combos far more powerful.

Nex should have no charge and do abt 90 DPS at a 1s refire

Those supporting that might as well play minsta.

gaa ... how long has this bloodbath been fermenting in the dark corner of the forums ...

anyways ...

Nex I think could have a weaker uncharged state...

I have heard alot about no good mid range weapons ... HELLO WE HAVE A HLAC It has faster bullet travel than hagar ... and is more accurate too.... especially when crouching ...

Hagar cool down time is called out of ammo ....


one reason nex seems over powerd is the maps duels are played on ....

hmmm ... lets think ....

xoylent ... open spacy ...
stromkeep ... big ... open ...
finalrage ... all the action happens in the big room ...

I would like to see more maps that are like the inside of redplanet... nex is near useless there (HAGAR wins)

insane hagar
sg underpowered
HLAC to solve all problems

Personally the mortar primary feels too weak in my experience.

Guys! Express your weapon balance opinions on this new thread.

It's designed so users ONLY leave their opinions (one post per user!) and DON'T start discussing their opinions or other people's opinions.

If you want to discuss your ideas, do it on threads like these.

....
And how about you make one with your weapons changes too, tZork?
....

Wont do that. a random vid wont show anything of importance. you need time and real play testing to determine if something works. Besides most ppl here does not agree with how i would like things and thus i stay the hell out of it.. mostly

Wont do that. a random vid wont show anything of importance. you need time and real play testing to determine if something works. Besides most ppl here does not agree with how i would like things and thus i stay the hell out of it.. mostly

Fair enough.

Some interesting statistics:

The average hit percentage for all weapons are abt 23%
that is, 77 % of the damage dealt hurts the map, not your target. poor worldspawn.

The most specialized weapons are, in order

• Crylink 14 %
  
• Shotgun 11.5 %
  
• Laser 11 %
  

This is the percentage of our players having > 10% more than the average

The always argued abt nex comes in at just 7.2 % specialization, while its average accuracy is a whooping 30 %. However mortar and rocket launcher come in at around the same hit percentage, while the shotty it at a frekking 43 % hit ratio.

What that tells, I leave up to you, the reader.

Add that to the numbers from the last dm cup and it becomes clear that the most usefull dm weapon in the current balance is given at spawn - shotgun. Which many players have already recognized. But mention shutgun here and you will have players arguing, against any numbers, that shotgun is in fact... underpowered. And that its nex that should be nerfed...

Another point of discussion should be the argument that having a strong spawn weapon helps new players to get into the game. To me that goes quite into the opposite direction of having a game with lots of weapon pickups. Newbie XY gets his hands on a new weapon, thinks "wow cool I gonna rock with that futuristic plasma-shooting thing!", then gets shot down by a freshly spawned player with sg. I would also bet that many people think it's stupid and frustrating to get killed by a single shotgun slap after they have spammed their whole arsenal of rockets at their opponent (not funnahy at all, like some people think it is).

How about such an idea for the nex - if it's shot at a close target (less than 10 meters maybe?), then the guy shooting will get some (~30? or maybe the further the less) damage himself also. As in some kind of recoil damage. This would limit the nex's usability for close range, while keeping it good for medium and far range.