balanceFruit.cfg

Stop making it a general purpose weapon and gear it to long range. THAT will fix the nex.

No, the Rifle already balances long range warfare better. It brings some actual skill to sniping in this game.

There's basically no direction left to balance the nex in without it being a duplicate of another weapon.

Stop making it a general purpose weapon and gear it to long range. THAT will fix the nex.

No, the Rifle already balances long range warfare better. It brings some actual skill to sniping in this game.

There's basically no direction left to balance the nex in without it being a duplicate of another weapon.

Oh rly? Under my balance (give it a try if you haven't already):

Rifle: Medium/Long Range, does share one range of effectiveness with nex
Nex: Long Range/Extreme Range, does share one range of effectiveness with rifle

The two are pretty well balanced (well nex is a little weak at the moment, but it's an easy fix) and feel like two different weapons. They both require two different skills as well. I can't imagine something like Go (the map you guys love to hate) playing well with a rifle or Red Planet playing well with a nex.

Just to note lee, the weapon change time has not been changed (except for sniper), so this is just a myth about not being able to do weapon combo's.

As for the nex I don't see any problem with it, the using cells whilst charging for a more powerful shot make's sense though I really think that's the only change needed everything else is overkill, keep it SIMPLE.

Simplicity got thrown out the window when the Crylink primary was made complex.

I like the crylink primary. I really do. Actually, I like most of the weapons very much. I think the Nex and the Camping Rifle are quite well balanced atm.

I still would find it reasonable if the Nex would consume ammo during charging, and I really liked the idea that it charged automatically when you were moving really fast. Not that this would be needed, but the physical explanation of the thing cooling down by all that wind makes sense, too (especially on space maps... uhm...).

The problem what happens when you run out of ammo can be easily solved by allowing to charge the Nex only to the extent that you still have ammo or one shot left.

One thing I noticed which I found very annoying is that the Electro just doesn't do anything anymore when you keep firing it and run out of ammo. It always takes me one or two seconds to notice that something is missing: the beam. Maybe it would make sense to change it so that the weapon automatically changes once you run out of ammo? Just as it does when you hit the fire button and are out of ammo?

Edit: Oh, and thank you, FruitieX, for elaborating. I really didn't get it. I think now I understood it, sort of. So I continue to run around with a charged nex at 80% to 100% percent.

In my opinion, making the nex act more like Halo's plasma pistol might be a step in the right direction (don't know for sure though), so that you charge by holding primary and fire by releasing it. If you hold the charge too long, it would fire automatically. Right now I have a similar problem with the charge thing under my file, EVEN WITH IT CONSUMING AMMO TO CHARGE. I always just charge it the first second I get. Also PLEASE RESTORE THE ELECTRO! The secondary on that thing is useless now and the lightning gun would be more suited to another weapon or as it's own weapon all together. Speaking of secondary, the Crylink's secondary (maybe this is where the lighting gun should be implemented) is too much like the HLAC. The health system is still bad as well, but I think both me and Samual already did a good job going into detail as to why, so I'm not going to explain it again. Don't get me started on the run speed and bunny hop speed transition gap again either, I already explained why that was bad. On a more positive note, your laser is perfect so don't do anything with it.

EDIT: I'll be doing a full breakdown of your balance file compared to mine. Obviously it will be from my point of view, so no matter how hard I try, it won't be the fairest comparison. Hopefully it will still be useful though.

By the way, I noticed that on your server, FruitieX, rocket flying seems to be enabled. That's a cool thing, I hope we can have that for official?

@Lee_Stricklin: I think it will enrage a lot of players if we have the nex fire upon release of the fire button instead of upon pressing it.

@Lee_Stricklin: I think it will enrage a lot of players if we have the nex fire upon release of the fire button instead of upon pressing it.

*shrugs shoulders* Just an idea. btw I have a massive wall-of-text that shows what I see in the balances from my point of view. Figure it'd be best to put that in it's own thread, instead of bloating this one.

http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php...0#pid19180

Actually that worked pretty well for the rocket launcher in UT99. Might be worth a shot. It would free up the alternate for zoom.. Which would be pretty sweet..

By the way, I noticed that on your server, FruitieX, rocket flying seems to be enabled. That's a cool thing, I hope we can have that for official?

This IS official, mate.
My server runs 100% pure, default settings (in public gamemodes, tourney gamemodes (1v1dm etc) enable a couple of things that make it impure like g_maxplayers and teamplay_mode (for adjusting teamdamage))

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It should pretty much be suicide to use the nex at closer ranges unless you plan to combo with it. Which requires some skill.

Which again makes your Nex a pretty useful close range gun. Because if you miss you just switch away in less than half a second and try again with another weapon.

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Rifle: Medium/Long Range, does share one range of effectiveness with nex
Nex: Long Range/Extreme Range, does share one range of effectiveness with rifle

Again, what hinders someone from using the Nex in close range fights? I'm interested, because I could use something extra like that for the Sniper Rifle. (apart from the long long animtime)

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Simplicity got thrown out the window when the Crylink primary was made complex.

It's not very complex at all.

Ever played Team Fortress 2? THAT game is complex.

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Actually that worked pretty well for the rocket launcher in UT99. Might be worth a shot. It would free up the alternate for zoom.. Which would be pretty sweet..

Hmmm.... So what if the Nex consumed ammo when charging up, starts charging up when you start holding the primary and fires when you let go... Could be interesting, but also a quick way to waste ammo

BTW I still dislike the idea of having a zoom on any weapon's secondary, there is already a dedicated button for this. Either we remove that button and have the Nex/Rifle secondary zoom, or we keep that button and have the Nex/Rifle secondary do something else. I'm okay with both solutions, zoom doesn't make any sense on most of the other weapons. Would also free up another button, yay. Most other FPS games disallow zoom on most weapons too.

Just make the nex consume cells when charging, that's the only thing it needs. Why keep changing it just because SOMEONE on this thread if it was causing uber-ownage we'd know about it by now and it's just not so stop it.

This releasing fire to shoot will make it harder to use and there is no need for that.
Consume cells as it charges is the sensible option.

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On a sidenote, what's the damage of the electro combo, could it be a little stronger?

I am finding it really useful for defending now in CTF now that I use it more and am getting a little better with it

This releasing fire to shoot will make it harder to use and there is no need for that.
Consume cells as it charges is the sensible option.

You're right. All these manipulative guys are driving me nuts. xD

The nex under my file has a longer animtime and a longer charge rate. You also can't kill someone with two shots easily (you have to charge the weapon to do that), but you can shoot them when your out of their range and combo with the weapon if they get too close.

You're right. All these manipulative guys are driving me nuts. xD

Don't sweat it, this thread (and the forum in general) is basically 4 or so of us same individuals giving you the same advice over and over.

You'll get real feedback some time after 1.0 (stable) is released, bringing in a flood of the potential players that are out there waiting in the wings at the moment. After they've had a couple of weeks to a month to learn the moves and weapons, if there are any actual issues you will hear about them then.

Remember 2.5, everyone complained about the physics until about maybe two or four weeks in, and then they preferred them. Then in 2.5.2, it took a similar amount of time for the overbuffing of the hitscan weapons to become apparent.

But right now there isn't much advantage in getting bounced around by the opinions of 0.1% of the player base on the forums.

Right now the nex is a major problem under this file. I seriously question whether or not some of the open maps from Nexuiz were tested with it, because it really is an excessively powerful weapon. The nex under my configs is less powerful AND it's a lot harder to hit somebody when playing the modified physics I have in addition to you respawning with armor, more health, and both armor and health being easier to get. This thing in it's current state is worse than 2.5.2's nex. You can kill a respawned opponent in two shots (only one of which would be fully charged) with this or a single weapon combo.

Take your Ritalin.

Seriously you are a mentalist Lee.

Anyone who has even questioned it has said it is too weak, your the only one I know who say's it's too strong, now take your Ritalin

Hopefully this will paint a clearer (well maybe not clear because the quality sucks, but you get the point) picture of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkMKogk2Gus

What do you think is going to happen if we start getting open maps like Go on the servers? To be fair this was a bot match, but the physics are a lot more predictable than they were, so I can imagine an online game being just as bad.

Hopefully this will paint a clearer (well maybe not clear because the quality sucks, but you get the point) picture of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkMKogk2Gus

What do you think is going to happen if we start getting open maps like Go on the servers? To be fair this was a bot match, but the physics are a lot more predictable than they were, so I can imagine an online game being just as bad.

I think we need to put you on a 1v1 server with kojn on YOUR beloved config, then we'll ask you the same question again.

OK, to make it more clear: spawn raping is NORMAL. The fact that this works here by just using the nex is nothing out of the ordinary. It's actually a dumb way of doing spawn raping, I'd rather already know where spawn points are, prepare a secondary mode grenade, detonate it with a primary, if I guessed the spawn correctly you are almost dead with that. Finish off with electro beam.

Hopefully this will paint a clearer (well maybe not clear because the quality sucks, but you get the point) picture of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkMKogk2Gus

What do you think is going to happen if we start getting open maps like Go on the servers? To be fair this was a bot match, but the physics are a lot more predictable than they were, so I can imagine an online game being just as bad.

I think we need to put you on a 1v1 server with kojn on YOUR beloved config, then we'll ask you the same question again.

OK, to make it more clear: spawn raping is NORMAL. The fact that this works here by just using the nex is nothing out of the ordinary. It's actually a dumb way of doing spawn raping, I'd rather already know where spawn points are, prepare a secondary mode grenade, detonate it with a primary, if I guessed the spawn correctly you are almost dead with that. Finish off with electro beam.

Spawn raping is harder to pull off under my config AND the average player health is higher too. It's much harder to stack your health to 200 under balanceFruit due to how many pickups you can't grab. On top of that his nex I believe does a max of 90 damage and is easier to charge. You can kill even a well equipped player in less than three shots which don't take long to pull off due to his faster refire.

Im confused.. I tough this thread was abt FruitieX's balance.

I guess it got a bit off topic shortly after I started talking about the nex...

Hahahahahahaha.

Hahahahahahaha.

)))

Playing a 1v1 with a bot (spawn killing + bot getting stuck) proves really that Nex is superduperweapon in FruitieX' balance. [/irony] Play on a server with DM (or something similar running) at Stormkeep or so and you won't be able to do that.

Actually after playing some CTF pickups (which FruitieX' balance) I had much more fun that I ever had in Nexuiz. Good teamplay was actually required (No "Come in base, grab flag, run, capture in 5 secs") (teamplay lolwutizdiz!).
FruitieX' balance +1!!11

Well Lee, how often does someone hit 3 shot's in a row with the nex conistently? Yes I've had a few time's I've hit FruitieX in duel 4 times (maybe 3 times?), and 5 time's in a row once, but that's just player skill you can't stop that, I hit player's more time's one or two time's (normally uncharged) and they don't die after 2 shot's no one else see's a problem with the damage but you, which must tell you something. Either a) Were all blatantly wrong b) Your blatantly wrong.

Let's not forget in 2.5.2 it did 110 damage 1.5 sec refire, you can't fire 2 charge shots in the current setting's anywhere that quick.

If we had it your way, the nex would become so frustrating because it would barely do much fragging at all, even more so in your settings where you start off with 100 armour.

Also, how often do you get respawn killed more then once in a row with the nex, that would be 4 shot's in a row hit minimum and they'd all have to be charged shots, and knowing where the guy spawned, i've not seen this happen once to me, nor have I done this once to anyone in Xonotic.

Like what green`marine said, spam a spawn then finish off is what I tend to do also, not waiting at just one with the nex.

The big problem I see Lee is, your testing with bot's offline which is kind of fine, however the current setting's have been tested online in hundred's of matches now, I never see any of this reported nex being so powerful rubbish in the game's I am playing, we'd of heard incontrollable whine by now if it was, most people are just getting on with it they can see it is not overpowered.

I will not comment on this nex matter anymore, it just seem's to be you on the thread/s who is saying it is unbalanced and worse then 2.5.2's which is just blatantly not true sorry to say, you can argue back but for me personally I don't see a reason to defend the current nex anymore as it seems to be primarily you > vs > the rest on this one.

I think the MachineGun FruitieX could do with being made a little bit more useful/powerful, I find secondary not strong enough just slightly might just be me, and I miss with primary unless i'm really close enough and this is when i'm aiming on them, tbh i've always had problems with the MG even in nexuiz I think I may need to lead a lot more with it when i'm not point blank away.

I think green was right when he say's that against the electro it isn't strong enough at the moment, but I feel like it's a little too weak in general at the moment, mainly primary.

I don't think it needs a huge change, perhaps just notch up the damage it does with primary atleast by 1point just so we can see if we notice it being a bit more useful.

Yep i agree kojn, i already stated that mg secondary is definitely weaker that the primary. New players can almost never land those 3 bullets, since they aim is worse. And for experienced players it doesnt have enough dps to ever favor it over electro or rl. I recommend to give it a try with 16 dmg per bullet (iirc its currently 14) and a *tiny tiny* bit smaller spread.