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Stermy checking out xonotic

#26
(02-12-2012, 10:32 AM)Lee_Stricklin Wrote: Game physics, I noticed he didn't quickly catch onto the trick jumps and other things like that that exist in this game. Strafe jumping and those sort of things weren't immediately obvious to him from what I can tell. Using bunnyhopping, it's also possible to ski just like in Tribes 2.

When I tried Xonotic I wasn't able to locate spedometer/accelerometer. Without these you are in the dark when it comes to mastering movement physics. Especially that strafe action in autobuild Xonotic feels, well, weird Smile
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#27
[Image: 366-overreaction-08.jpg]
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#28
Quote:Those are just a few things, I'm sure there's more. In my opinion this game actually can be fairly easy to pick up, IF you understand the mechanics, problem is there aren't any in-game tutorials that explain these.

2.5.2 did it perfectly with tutorial where you were supposed to use quirks of each weapon to press switches.
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#29
i think he did get the wrong impression, not because it was an out of date build, but because it wasn't quake live :p
Master of mysterious geometries

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#30
(02-12-2012, 02:24 PM)rafallus Wrote: 2.5.2 did it perfectly with tutorial where you were supposed to use quirks of each weapon to press switches.

except for the "nerd voice" bit.
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#31
Nothing a voice changer can't fix.
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#32
He played many different fast fps games in competition, I think he can judge very well where xonotic stands after watching fisume play vs Mirio and figuring out how the physics work.

Quote:he was probably expecting a more tiered system like Quake 3 where certain weapons are "better" than others, not UT99's style of balance where weapon effectiveness is based strictly on preference and situation.
That's really what Xonotic weapons are supposed to be? They are much closer to tiered quake weapons than that atm.. drawing a clear line on that wouldn't be a bad idea.
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#33
I don't really believe there are "best" weapons in Xonotic. I notice A LOT of people roll with a nex and mortar combo, but I personally just use whatever the situation calls for and actually don't do as well with precision weapons. If I had to pick a favorite, I'd say it's either the electro or the hagar. Xonotic currently has a rock/paper/scissors balance, with possibly only the shotgun and lasers being considered weak.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#34
I don't know what you play but in competitive xonotic (which is duel only atm + a little pickups) it's obvious that rl/mortar/nex/mg are the most powerful weapons. Maybe if Antibody got time he can put up some statistics from my duel servers. I bet that at least 90% of damage is dealt with those weapons.
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#35
Thing is your always going too have this weapon issue, because of the fast weapon switching, a hagar is never going too win vs someone switching nex mortar and RL. No one is going too fire nex switch too hagar switch too mg etc with weapon switching because that quickfire combo doesn't work effectively. If weapon switching was slower the weapons would balance out better in effectiveness vs each other as people would not be able too combo the said weapons so fast. They are already balanced quite well, its that weapon combos take away the effectiveness of certain weapons against each other, even though I should be able too win a lot of the times with a MG vs someone I can't because they are able too deal damage far too quickly via combos.

A much better idea would be too make weapon switching delay longer but still allowing too combo but not as ridiculously quickly. With the current weapon setup I think youd notice a difference then.
[Image: 542.png]

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#36
I agree 100% with that, but that doesn't change the status quo. Arguing how things -should- be in theory is fine but I rather look at how it works in the arena.
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#37
pump up all the weapons , restrict nothing

OMG ITS A WEAPON BALANCE NERD THINGO AGAIN!

STERMY , IF YOUR READING THIS , WELCOME MATE , DW, WE GOT THIS

gunna be the best game you ever played , just need a bit more time

(needs that hang in there kitty pic)

t


:^
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#38
Lol, I like the fact that he only realised that holding down space makes you bunnyhop after an hour of play.
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#39
It was more the fact he was pressing it like in quakelive each time he hopped, and didn't realise it had an autohop feature that surprised him.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#40
A fully loaded hagar blast followed by a few rockets wiil usually kill someone. An electro blast will usually mess someone up really bad if they're not super stacked, leaving them easy pickings for the machine gun. The weapon balance in this game is VERY complex, more complex than any of the Unreal and Quake games.


lol @ Kojn's sig
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#41
I agree with kojn, the reaction is really overemphasized. @fisume: what counts as "positive"?
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#42
You still can do fine with close combat machine gun as long as you can dodge nex (= can close distance to opponent). That's true even in Nexuiz where nex combose are way stronger. Why would you make an attempt to equal each one weapon in every imaginable combat situation?
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#43
Weapons were also stronger in nexuiz. Its not about making equal in every situation, but situational events are rare because of such damage you can do with combos which effects other weapons effectiveness. A quick example is I have MG, PCLizard has a nex and mortar, against just a nex I have a good chance with my MG. However when he can just next/mortar/mortar/nex combo so fast, he is able too deal so much damage in comparison too what I can do. Even though I can compete MG vs nex or MG vs mortar, I can't when it is so quick combos as the DPS with those then goes through the roofpotentially compared to what I can do. Even if I have a Rocket Launcher and MG I still can't compete with comboing with these weapons, its just not effective.

Unless someone comes up with a solution its going too continue like that, but you have too ask are you prepared too compromise?

Anyway gone a bit off topic, hopefully you'll understand my point of view. Its not a complaint per se, its just whenever I see a discussion about tiered weapons etc and I don't think its a solution as its more a problem with how the weapons are combined. As asyyy says 90% of damage is probably done with nex mortar and RL. Its not that the other weapons are bad or underpowered on there own but they can't compete with those 3 weapons when there near insta combo'able. Next best is MG which is very strong but still at times hard too kill someone who can deal damage so fast.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#44
Quote:You still can do fine with close combat machine gun as long as you can dodge nex (= can close distance to opponent). That's true even in Nexuiz where nex combose are way stronger. Why would you make an attempt to equal each one weapon in every imaginable combat situation?

Because in Nexuiz mg itself was quite a bit stronger as well. Honestly it feels kinda underpowered now, at close range, I'd much rather have hagar or electro than mg. But it's said to be redone to chaingun and we are supposed to get arc cannon instead.
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#45
Can you stop making every thread a fucking balance one?

@Pcl, "awesome game", "the physics is rly good" ...
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#46
The balance talk is over. Now we talk about Illfonic.
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#47
It's not about re-balancing weapons (this time Smile) but it's just confusing as hell for new players if they are being told wrong things about how weapons work in xonotic.
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#48
The weapons themselves have a rock/paper/scissors balance with a time an a place to use each one. When trying to get the damage per second out, certain combos are more useful than others, but once again that is situation dependent and often times something may appear to look overpowered "on paper" but not be that way in-game, especially when you take into consideration the MAX health and armor one can have is 200. Then there's the fact that while many people are comfortable with the hit scan stuff like the nex and rifle, others, especially those coming from Tribes (which has you leading slow-moving shots by several kilometers and still has players that move as fast as in this game), might be better at using weapons that travel and leading their shots as opposed hitting someone dead on with something that is instantly where it's fired.

Anyway, enough balance talk, the game is in pretty good shape as it is in that regard.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#49
Just watched it, it's quite encouraging IMHO? We just really really need a good ingame tutorial like we had in Nex.
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#50
I understand you are tired fo discussing weapons but please let me point one thing to kojn^.
You can easily overdo this "balance" idea for the worse of the game. Combo fighting, for example, is more difficult than fighting with just one weapon. If you slow it down you will effectivly remove combos from the game play, or at least reduce them significantly. Now, do you really seek a game where there is no point in mastering difficult tricks for your benefit? I saw that in dm servers in Nexuiz. The game was interesting only if there were few and trained players. When there were newbies nobody used combos, laser or whatever - it was all about picking whatever weapon you spotted and spraying it toward those newbies. One who spryed best was the winner. Belive me, not very interesing game Smile And what is so wrong in there being less than five main weapons, one/two weapon for around the conrner fighting and another for denying area to your opponent?
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