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Xonotic Balance Test Release

#76
Me so confusticated!

Me downloaded Xonotic for Windows and Linux from the torrent links in the original message. Me keeps getting messages from servers saying I have an old version of Xonotic.

Me so sad.

What version should I be downloading for the epic carnage-fest on the 29th? I want to make sure I am dressed correctly before beginning to KILL, KILL, KILL!!

Thanks ever so much to whomever sets me on the correct path.
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#77
Nah that's just because the server has Xonotic Git (I'm assuming)

Don't worry about it, if you have the build from the 14th then you are perfectly fine for the testing weekend. The servers send you updated client side code ANYWAY when you play on them, so even if a server is newer it is generally perfectly fine.
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#78
Most server run either Git or version 0.1. Just get this development release and you won't have any problems at the severs for the next weekend.
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#79
YAY!

Thanks for the fast reply.

I shoulda known better than to trust that MIT GIT server! It had a sneaky techno look!
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#80
(04-27-2011, 10:51 AM)Diseased Fangs Wrote: YAY!

Thanks for the fast reply.

I shoulda known better than to trust that MIT GIT server! It had a sneaky techno look!
wut... that's my server. :O
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#81
(04-27-2011, 11:01 AM)Samual Wrote:
(04-27-2011, 10:51 AM)Diseased Fangs Wrote: YAY!

Thanks for the fast reply.

I shoulda known better than to trust that MIT GIT server! It had a sneaky techno look!
wut... that's my server. :O

:o
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#82
:O

:O

>:O
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#83
Alright everyone, TODAY IT BEGINS!

I have my servers up and running and generally they should be configured properly, hopefully we can get some good testing with them. My servers are the "Developer" servers, NA Public/Private and EU Public/Private.


Lets have fun everyone, and get some good information/feedback. ^_^
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#84
Good luck have fun everyone!
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#85
I'm the only one online atm Sad
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#86
APRIL FOOLS HAHAHA

just kidding :p

I'm sure people will start showing up eventually. I can't today, but I will be able to tomarrow.
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#87
I can guarantee I'll join the fun today, but I will do tomorrow and Sunday. I'm downloading the game and map pack right now.
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"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
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#88
I have just played a few good games, there are people online Big Grin, join them!

(I'm off for now and on holiday for a few days, so I'll miss the rest of XWIT Sad)

Mepper
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#89
Ok, so again: which servers are there for testing in EU (server name and ip)?
Also, WHERE ARE THE PLAYERS?
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"One should strive to achieve; not sit in bitter regret."
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#90
Probably later on tonight, use the XWIT EU filter Tongue
#deathmatchers
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#91
its been really good , i must admit im having a bad time playing it , due to my new noob status
(thi) , but from watching alot of people , seems alot are moving around good and yer , starting to be a normal game.

game is running fine largly for me , and looks great!
music needs to be updated though.....
im finding it really hard to play on high ping servers , but probs due to my crappy moving.
i wondered if antilag was around too? , guys?
i must admit too i feel quite restricted playing , but again me plumber.

im calling this a success , well done Smile

give me a year and i might be good again (then i will throw u a nex and suck u into my rl :p )

ty

t

:^
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#92
I'll be snooping around for populated servers when I get off work, assuming anybody is actually on at the time.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#93
So just as a bit of a status report, i've gotten lots of useful feedback from this so far. Generally there are a few major things which need addressed though, they are what people complain/comment about most.

I will be addressing those issues after the XWIT event when I get some free time.

P.S.: I know everyone dislikes that the balance switches all the time, but please just bare with it during testing. Once we are done testing that will essentially never happen again Tongue We need it for now to get a fair test of both balances, even though I know many of you are sick of it.
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#94
There was some MASSIVE packet loss on the XWIT server when I was on, pretty much everyone playing had it in the 60s and higher!
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#95
OK, that was a fun weekend in testing, we should do that a lot more Smile
WARNING! LONG POST AHEAD!

In this post, I'd like to share my experiences with all of you, from an average Joe's point of view because I have to admit, my skills have melted away, so I cannot call myself a seasoned or experienced player anymore. Though I understand the basic concepts of the game, and at least I know how to bunnyhop, my aim is not perfect, I don't know maps, I'm not really familiar with the playerbase anymore etc.
So I'm not reviewing the balances as a pro or total noob, just a normal guy who has some clue about unrealistic FPS games, and would only like to have fun.
I didn't have the opportunity to test the weapons in DM or TDM well, only the CTF servers were populated.
Also, keep in mind I didn't gather any specific data or statistics, I'm not into that mumbo-jumbo, I'm only telling my experiences and my general "feel" of the balances.

Ok, so here they come:

Laser @ Samual/FruitieX:
Too bad I can't remember which one it was (maybe both), but I've found a lot harder to make a good laserjump comparing to Nexuiz. One of the balances didn't even allowed me to jump as high either. At first, it was odd, maybe uncomfortable too, knowing I can't reach every place on a map, and also I cannot just jump over the whole map like a bunny on steroids (and a pogo stick). But later, I got used to it, and tbh, I really liked it. I had to discover the map better, look for spots where I can do a ramjump+laserjump to reach an item/places, it generally improved my style of move and it made the gameplay a lot more interesting. The lowered pushforce also resulted a cut down of laserfrags on floater maps: finally, the laser is more like a tool and last resort weapon.

Shotgun
First of all: the secondary melee is AWESOME! I've had a lot of fun "trouting" people, especially when they had a lot better weapon. Feels very rewarding.
The primary I'm not so sure though. Sure it packs a punch, but imho, not enough. In general, it takes 5-6 shots to kill an unarmored enemy. It feels a bit underpowered. If I remember correctly, I've felt that in Samual's config.
Imho a bit slower reload time, but higher damage would make this weapon feel just right (ala Quake3 shotgun: 3-4 good, close direct hits to mow down anybody), or just one right into the face (ala Quake2 super shotgun)

Mg @ Samual:
Primary WAAAAY TOO OVERPOWERED! Uneffective on long range, but from mid to close, it was the deadlyest weapon. I really had to look after myself not to overuse it. It was not uncommon that I could single handedly defend the flag against 2-3 enemy players with the MG, while having only one reload. Oh, yes, reload: my first reaction was "for fuck's sake, why?!" but later, I somewhat got used to it. It really didn't add or removed anything to my gameplay because of the relative high power of the gun: after the reload, I could still pump my enemy full of lead, it really didn't gave me any drawback. Also, I didn't bind a reload button anywhere, because I'm not used to it (and I don't really want either). If I'd have to say, what feature should be removed, that'd be the MG reload. It's just "nah".
Secondary feels just righ. Fast bursts, and accurate enough in close range, but inaccurate enough in high not to be a sniper weapon. I didn't use it so much, but now I can see, it'd be an epic finishing choise close/mid and might be at high range. Thumbs up here. Smile

MG @ FruitieX's balance:
On the other hand, here primary has soooo large spread, I couldn't even hit anything even at close range. Useless. The secondary Feels just right here too.
The MG primary could be fixed imho by a merge between the two configs.

Crylink @ Samual:
Tbh, I couldn't get the grip of the primary fire. Dunno why, but I never could use this weapon well. Not with the new "release to cross the dots" feature either. Secondary is just a spammy nonsense, however effective in cramped situations. I think I've used this firemode a lot more.

Crylink @ FruitieX:
Same goes for primary, useless at my hands. The secondary here however is better again, a good finishing weapon, especially if your enemy is at mid range because of the large spread of the energy bolts.
Again, I'd prefer a merge of the two configs: secondary firemode of Samual's as new primary, and secondary from FruitieX as secondary.

Electro @ Samual:
Nothing new here for someone who knew Nexuiz, maybe the primary firemode's flight speed got a bit slower. I have mixed feelings, Because of this, the electro combo is a lot harder to trigger, and because of the fast speed of the basic enemy movement, the projectile was easy to dodge (or just my prediction and aim sucks very much Big Grin). I've found it very hard to use, and when used well, it wasn't even really rewarding. From a good weapon, it moved in my arsenal to third in line / last resort. Only worthy for picking up ammo, really. Because we already have the RL, that acts the same way, but packs a lot more punch (not to mention the GL), I won't cry if the electro in this carnation would just go (but I'd moan the weapon model though Wink.

Electro @ FruitieX:
HOLY MOTHER OF ALL SHAFT WEAPONS! I can see now why others whine about it, it's TOTALLY OWERPOWERED! The weapon was always everyones favorite, if I had a steady aim, and I could ensure to never ran out of ammo, again, I single-handedly could defend our flag against multiple waves of attackers (or as Dokujisan showed us, how to spawn rape everybody at Newtonian Nightmare Tongue) . Secondary firemode was fun to use, not effective always, but easy to trigger the combo, and it's really fun.
Because I love the shaft very much, I'd hate to see it go (yes, I know it'll be a different weapon), but I have to agree with others, the weapon needs some kind of nerfing.

HLAC @ Samual:
First, I thought it's useless, but later, I figured out how to use it. Because it's slow fire rate, it's only efective for middle range. Not good for close, because you hurt yourself too, and not good for high, because it's spread will be too large, and it's easy to dodge. Very hard to use, but once you get the feeling of it, very rewarding at mid range. Secondary firemode is useless, I don't even remember I've heared the hit indicator anytime while using it (no kidding). To make the weapon more noob friendly and easy to use, I'd make the firerate a bit higher, and introduce an "overheating" effect, that'd make the weapon to slow down in case it's overused.

HLAC @ FruitieX:
Too bad, I couldn't have the chance to play enough with this weapon in this config to have any opinions about it, so I just shut my mouth here. Sad

Hagar
The EPIC SPAMMER. Really. Also, if you want to loose a lot of health for little damage for the enemy, the Hagar is your best friend. I can't count how much times did I commit suicide with that damn thing. The ricocheting exploding cucumbers however works good to close doors. It won't hurt anybody (who the hell would like to step in those fireworks?), but at least scare your enemy away.
Both balances work the same way. Only difference is that in Samual's it's: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, BLAM, while in FruitieX's it's BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM-BLAM!

Grenade launcher @ Samual
Now, this is where it get's odd. I don't know why, maybe you've lowered the edge damage (I didn't check the config), but I've found it's really hard now to use. Or at least, it's only a direct hit that is rewarding, and that's hard to do, but when you manage to pull it, it packs a lot of punch! For more unexperienced players it could be hard to use the mortar effectively. The secondary could live a little longer, not as long as in Nexuiz, but I feel it goes off too early. Maybe one more half second or so could be better.

Grenade Launcher @ FruitieX:
I couldn't play enough with this one either Sad

Rocket Launcher @ Samual/FruitieX
Same feeling for both: I don't really understand it. Sometimes even splashdamage kills off my enemy, sometimes even two direct hits are not enough. The steering in FruitieX feels more comfy, easier to use.

Nex
Here I have the same problem as the RL, but I think this comes from the powering up behaviour of the Nex (which I absolutely adore btw.): because I don't really feel how much it's powered up yet, I can't tell how much damage I'll deal. I know if I fire earlier, it'll do less damage compared to a fully charged shot. But in the middle of an intense fight, all I can see is that sometimes 2 shots are enough, sometimes not even 4. The powering up system is awesome, the crosshair indication and the weapon colourisation is a good idea too, but for me, not enough. The power level of the Nex needs an even better indication imho. Maybe a small counter next to the crosshair, dunno. The best would be a percentage counter on the weapon itself, but iirc that can't be done.
Also, maybe it's the intensive antilag feature, but I think I hit sometimes more with the Nex, than I actually thought. There were multiple instances when I shot the enemy, heared the hitsound, and I've said to myself: "What? Did I really hit him? My crosshair's center was at least a half cm away!" I'm not telling this is bad, just feels very odd.

Ok, I think that's all. I'd really like to see others to write down their opinions too. Also, I think that one weekend of testing is not enough to settle down with one or another config. I really hope there'll be more XWIT events.
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#96
All you said about MG: +∞
The Electro combo is actually pretty strong in Samuals balance so maybe you have to practise that. Smile I like it that way.
And don't you have a circle around your crosshair if you use Nex (or MG, Rifle), which shows how much it charged?
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#97
I do have, but in an intense battle, when everything is flashing around on your screen, you can't see that well.
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#98
Thank you C.Brutail! I hope others follow your example and give some great feedback as well Smile

(05-02-2011, 07:10 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: Shotgun
---
Imho a bit slower reload time, but higher damage would make this weapon feel just right (ala Quake3 shotgun: 3-4 good, close direct hits to mow down anybody)
This is sort of what I had attempted to achieve for the 0.1beta balance. Smile

(05-02-2011, 07:10 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: Mg @ Samual:
Primary WAAAAY TOO OVERPOWERED! Uneffective on long range, but from mid to close, it was the deadlyest weapon. I really had to look after myself not to overuse it. It was not uncommon that I could single handedly defend the flag against 2-3 enemy players with the MG, while having only one reload. Oh, yes, reload: my first reaction was "for fuck's sake, why?!" but later, I somewhat got used to it. It really didn't add or removed anything to my gameplay because of the relative high power of the gun: after the reload, I could still pump my enemy full of lead, it really didn't gave me any drawback. Also, I didn't bind a reload button anywhere, because I'm not used to it (and I don't really want either). If I'd have to say, what feature should be removed, that'd be the MG reload. It's just "nah".
I agree, the primary feels a bit too strong now. On the other hand, you have to put yourself in a risky position in order to use it, you won't be dodging behind a wall with it for example as you could with projectile weapons. But still, the damage on the primary should be brought down just a bit, not too much. It still should feel strong.

Personally I like the reload feature on the MG, and I think that we should add features to pretty much every weapon that somehow take use of the "crosshair ring" feature.

(05-02-2011, 07:10 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: Nex
Here I have the same problem as the RL, but I think this comes from the powering up behaviour of the Nex (which I absolutely adore btw.): because I don't really feel how much it's powered up yet, I can't tell how much damage I'll deal. I know if I fire earlier, it'll do less damage compared to a fully charged shot. But in the middle of an intense fight, all I can see is that sometimes 2 shots are enough, sometimes not even 4. The powering up system is awesome, the crosshair indication and the weapon colourisation is a good idea too, but for me, not enough. The power level of the Nex needs an even better indication imho. Maybe a small counter next to the crosshair, dunno. The best would be a percentage counter on the weapon itself, but iirc that can't be done.
My feeling after playing a bunch of games with Samual's balance is that the Nex still dominates... At least in pickup matches this has been the #1 weapon for frags: works at any range, has a fast refire if you want, relatively good combo ability (a little less crazy now with the charge function), deals lots of damage whenever you hit. Don't know how to fix this without enraging pretty much everybody ("no moar nex nerfs!").... Maybe a slightly longer charge time? (and faster rot when switched away from the gun?)

(05-02-2011, 07:10 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: Also, maybe it's the intensive antilag feature, but I think I hit sometimes more with the Nex, than I actually thought. There were multiple instances when I shot the enemy, heared the hitsound, and I've said to myself: "What? Did I really hit him? My crosshair's center was at least a half cm away!" I'm not telling this is bad, just feels very odd.
This is very likely due to the fact that our playermodels are WAY too thin. If you play a local game, enable chase_active 1 and r_showbboxes 1 (iirc) and see for yourself how they do NOT fill up the entire bounding box Smile
(05-02-2011, 07:41 AM)C.Brutail Wrote: I do have, but in an intense battle, when everything is flashing around on your screen, you can't see that well.

That is true, the default alpha of the ring should absolutely be increased. Perhaps it should also change colors like the display on the Nex weapon itself does.

And before someone says "it'll be too opaque if you increase alpha": it uses the additive draw function which means it only adds to the color of whatever is under it instead of just slapping the image in front of everything. Even at alpha 1 you'll see through just fine.
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#99
the thing about the nex is, it is NOT overpowered. mappers are just retarded in where they place it. (especially in ctf) there was one map where there was a nex IN THE SPAWN BUNKER.

The nex is supposed to be a powerful weapon, and as such 1) there should only be 1 on any map, and 2) it should be difficult to get to, either hidden or in a highly exposed area.

anyway, I am not going to post a breakdown of the different weapons, mostly because I am just not very good at the game. I will say that I liked samual's balance a lot better, the weapons just seemed a lot more satisfying to use. I think the average damage to all weapons was higher, so it was much more fast paced. (in fruitiex's balance it seemed like I had to shoot at someone for a lot longer to frag them, with all weapons. )

oh, and someone is working on making the player models thicker, i think.
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(05-02-2011, 08:32 AM)theShadow Wrote: the thing about the nex is, it is NOT overpowered. mappers are just retarded in where they place it. (especially in ctf) there was one map where there was a nex IN THE SPAWN BUNKER.
I was mostly referring to smaller arena maps for duels and deathmatch.
And there it doesn't really matter where it's placed, you can still just grab it and take it anywhere.
Placement of it sure works better on huge CTF maps, by placing it somewhere hard to get so you wont go get it each time before you attack/defend. But as with all other weapons, it too should be balanced.
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