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[SUGGESTION] Choice of spawn in duel

#1
Idea: after the initial random spawn in a duel match, players get to choose their spawn location after each death. The purpose of this would be to reduce unnecessary randomness, decrease spawnfrags, and maybe increase frags from spawn. From a gameplay perspective, it would create a bit of comeback power and remove a large source of unneeded variance in matches. I think fun situations arise more often when you can actively decide to spawn in front of a low-health opponent and rush him with a shotgun+laser.

Also, this would resolve the complaints about the spawn system Smile
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#2
I see no harm in having such option, but otoh I don't PvP much in Xonotic either. From an implementation point of view, this should not be that hard to do. The only problem i see is how to present the spawn choices to the player. Drawing them as points on a map won't [always] work as maps may well have multiple spawns at the same "2d location" but on different height levels. There is the option of cycling through the spawns in a spectator-like state, but that would give the re-spawner a little too much info on the opponent/s imo.

EDIT:
Feel free to submit your request here:
https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic/issues

That by no means is a guarantee that it will happen, but chances improve from having it as a "random forum post" Tongue
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#3
Overlapping points can be resolved by assigning a number to each spawn. (And should be resolved this way, since pressing a number is a fast way to choose the spawn.) Pressing the number during a match would then show each spawn location like a waypoint, so there wouldn't be 2D overlapping issues.

Opened a request here: https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic/issues/137
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#4
I don't really like the number-spawn idea. It becomes clumsy after 10 spawn points, and it would still be a mess on the mini/map basically requiring you to learn the numbers on every map or gtfo. Sure you can try em one one for the highlight, but if they are z-overlap, you still have no indication of what floor you will spawn.
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#5
I don't really like the entire post, this anti-spawn kill philosophy that seems to be going around, let alone the whole "spawn in front of a low-health opponent and rush him"- deal. Besides, spawn kills are only really a thing in duels and you don't strike me as a player who has played enough duel to know what their significance is. Assuming that we're talking about vanilla duel.

This game is of course an open source project, which gives the freedom to fuck the game up in every which way you please as long as you have the technical knowledge to do so. However I recommend you get some more experience on the modes you play in before you suggest or log bizarre undocumented ideas. A lot of ideals and ideas similar to yours end up in mutator modes like Overkill / Instagib, but never quite make their way to the competitive scenes. So perhaps you might want to eyeball those instead tbh. I don't mean to be rude, I'm just getting tired of hearing these same suggestions annually in pretty much every game forum I stick my nose in.
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#6
Oh its acidic time it is? game on!

Being competitive viable is by no means the be-all of every game, game feature or mutator Absurd as it may seem, some people play games with only the premiss to have fun. In fact, most competitive scenes play by their own set of rules anyhow, making "balancing for competitive" a redundant task. That you personally may enjoy the ice skating uphill while pissing into the wind that is repetitive spawn fragging does not mean the majority of ppl do or should do.

And if you don't mean to be rude Smilecythe, why the hell did you even take the time to write up that rude rant? there xaero constructive input in your post, all you are doing is pissing ppl off. Its fine to disagree, but if you cant word your disagreement in a less condescending tone i would strongly suggest you refrain from posting it at all.
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#7
So this idea originally stemmed from UT4 where you can either left click or right click to choose 2 predetermined spawn points. I've put a handful of matches in UT4 duel against players much more highly skilled me and knew the maps much better so I can only comment so far. It was nice to have an option where to spawn to plan accordingly my next move. However, I don't think it really made that big of deal when my opponent was that much better than me. UT4 being a community game contributed by both hardcore and casual players, leaves Epic in a spot where they have to try and implement both sides of the coin. In the end I feel like their solution or whatever you want to call it doesn't really change anything if this was their desire. I believe they're better off just making the spawn point random.

I think there are already plenty of options that make spawnfrags weaker in Xonotic. It depends on the server of course. Some servers have momentary spawn shield while some have an option to always spawn furthest away (this can be exploited on some maps).

In most arena shooters, if you're being spawnfragged continually the problem is the skill gap not so much the mechanics themselves. There is really no way around it if you're caught early and have almost zero stack. It takes skilled opponent to escape a situation and stack up again. If you feel like the enemy is camping a certain spot and spamming that spawn point then use the time you're given to spawn accordingly. Most people die quick off the spawn because they rush and don't take their time and think about their next move. Also, use the time that you have to spawn to either collect your thoughts or evade incoming spam.
[Image: 38443.png]
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#8
Well two points to chose from actually seem like a nice compromise to me. Still allows the up player a fair degree of spawn prediction while giving the down player some feeling of being able to control his fate. If it dont have a huge impact with a high skill gap, all the better; it would still make the respawner feel a little less at the mercy of rngesus.
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#9
If we ever have such an option or the issue arises in the future, I believe the best solution would just have servers specifically for those who are new and for those a bit more experienced. I know when I was brand new the first time I dueled on Areowalk and was getting spawnfragged continuously I literally thought the other person was cheating lol. After the match I eventually figured how what was happening. Then I cried to Samual about being raped so hard and he added a spawnshield for me Big Grin. Like I stated previously we should just have servers that can accommodate for different skill levels. As a whole for competitive, I feel like the way it is now is fine with everyone.
[Image: 38443.png]
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#10
As a competitive dueler who still gets his ass kicked: spawn rape is going to happen no matter what. It will vary by the map (aerowalk is the absolute worst). The left/right click spawn thing is an interesting concept, but I think the various options we have now are fine.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#11
(03-03-2015, 04:13 AM)tZork Wrote: Being competitive viable is by no means the be-all of every game, game feature or mutator Absurd as it may seem, some people play games with only the premiss to have fun.
What I meant was that a gimmick spawn system like this would very likely not be included in a competitive setting, because that's how arena shooters do. I prefer my games to be challenging and effortful, something where you can compare yourself to others over games that are just "fun". I prefer Chess over Twisters, that's where our opinions differ. I don't expect you to understand, but being fun is not the be-all of every game either.
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#12
Spawnkills are part of duel. Please stop trying to remove/nerf something because people got "too good" at it.
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#13
(03-03-2015, 09:03 AM)Antibody Wrote: As a competitive dueler who still gets his ass kicked: spawn rape is going to happen no matter what. It will vary by the map (aerowalk is the absolute worst). The left/right click spawn thing is an interesting concept, but I think the various options we have now are fine.

I think Antibody's post sums it up perfectly.
[Image: 542.png]

#deathmatchers @ irc.quakenet.org

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#14
Hmm... Looks like Mario has come up with something! https://gitlab.com/xonotic/xonotic-data....e_12450887

If anyone can make a video of a duel where this is in use, I'd like to see it for sure. If I had more time (and experience) I'd beta test it too.
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