[SUGGESTION] Return points scaled to distance from the stand

I would like this, going into enemy territory to return the flag isn't the same thing as returning the flag which is basically already home. I assume the 90% would refer to the linear distance between bases?

This sounds interesting

I assume the 90% would refer to the linear distance between bases?

Yes, simply the linear distance between the stands, but I imagine you could implement it as a standalone mapvar if you need something different.

Now that's a cool idea. I dunno about coding, but my suggestion would be to have a linear calculation unless the map has info on "nearness zones" or something similar set up in the map file.

Very nice idea!

Good idea. If I understand correctly, this would make camping in your base less remunerative in terms of points?

this sounds nice...
i hope this will work

This is a great idea. Along similar lines, how about decreasing the points docked when you lose the flag based on the same linear distance concept? If you are close to your home base when you lose the flag you don't get docked as much.

Time could also be appropriate for when this happens (losing the flag). I am not sure of the exact point penalty, but say you'd be docked 15 points for getting killed while holding the enemy flag. Those 15 points could instead slowly decrease based on the time you've held on to the flag (thus effectively preventing the other team from capping); the longer you hold onto the flag, the less points you lose when you get killed.

I don't know how many times I've been on the short side of stacked teams and I'd take the enemy flag just to prevent them from capping, knowing full well that I was going to get demolished eventually. It would be cool if my point total reflected my efforts when this happens.

Along similar lines, how about decreasing the points docked when you lose the flag based on the same linear distance concept? If you are close to your home base when you lose the flag you don't get docked as much.

I think that sounds like a great complement to the return points. It helps align the scoring system with the gameplay, giving more disincentive for ill-prepared pickups than for people are taken down right before capping.

Time could also be appropriate for when this happens (losing the flag). I am not sure of the exact point penalty, but say you'd be docked 15 points for getting killed while holding the enemy flag. Those 15 points could instead slowly decrease based on the time you've held on to the flag (thus effectively preventing the other team from capping); the longer you hold onto the flag, the less points you lose when you get killed.

I think time is a trickier measure of success in returns/carries, considering map size affects this greatly. Also, this would reward people who pickup and then run circles around the enemy base rather than returning it. I'd say it's something that could be looked into, but scoring could get complicated if bonuses start piling up.

I don't know how many times I've been on the short side of stacked teams and I'd take the enemy flag just to prevent them from capping, knowing full well that I was going to get demolished eventually. It would be cool if my point total reflected my efforts when this happens.

Amen That's exactly what we'd like to see, a points system that reflects effort and skill as accurately as possible.

Thanks! A little clarification on my second point: I don't want to reward players who eventually lose the flag at all - only to limit how many points are docked based upon how long they've held it. Maybe the points docked/time looks something like this:

-15 when you've held on for < 30s
-10 when you've held on for 30s - 60s
-5 when you've held on for 60s - 120s
0 when you've held on for > 120s

That way it would be like you said - penalties for sensless attempts at the flag.

If you base it on time, I think it will encourage flag carriers to hide...

That's true, but you're going to have hiding no matter what. It is a strategy, albeit a pretty lame one. Maybe the points docked doesn't go all the way down to 0, then. Make the lowest it goes to be -5, so hiders and evaders alike get docked no matter how long they hold the flag.

I still think the points docked should be smaller for the skillful carrier, whether it be implemented via distance or time.

Okay, now you encourage defenders to let the enemy get the flag, and then get away with it.
Suure... as if many people weren't playing Nexuiz nubbishly enough as is.

You'd be better off making standard frag points decrease with distance from your flag, insead of making Flag Return points increase with distance. Encourage base defense, your midway players don't need to hunt any FCs when the enemy can't get the flag.

Good idea... Why did you used me in example ? script ?

Okay, now you encourage defenders to let the enemy get the flag, and then get away with it.

You already have that when people wait for someone to take the flag before killing them (as opposed to playing defense by killing people BEFORE they even enter the base). Kryten's suggestion still has merit - in essence a distant fckill is worth more because the defender is risking a) letting the taker cap and b) going into enemy territory to return. If players have the balls to let someone take their flag nearly all the way back before trying to kill them, power to them!

Docking points for losing the flag is ill-advised. A lot less people try to take the flag and more people sit around in the base when teams are evenly matched.
If you drop the flag, don't lose points, but if it is capped without being returned, you get a few points for a cap assist (based on how close it was to your flag when you dropped it).

Good idea... Why did you used me in example ? script ?

I get a kick out of using the [ you ] tag in examples.

You already have that when people wait for someone to take the flag before killing them (as opposed to playing defense by killing people BEFORE they even enter the base). Kryten's suggestion still has merit - in essence a distant fckill is worth more because the defender is risking a) letting the taker cap and b) going into enemy territory to return. If players have the balls to let someone take their flag nearly all the way back before trying to kill them, power to them!

Well said, thanks. Like I said earlier, scaling points based on time is a much more serious tweak and I'm not sure I'd agree with it. For the moment, however, I feel distance-based return points (and reduced pickup penalties) would be a nice addition, and if it's well-received here I intend to give the code a go at some point in the near future.

Docking points for losing the flag is ill-advised. A lot less people try to take the flag and more people sit around in the base when teams are evenly matched.
If you drop the flag, don't lose points, but if it is capped without being returned, you get a few points for a cap assist (based on how close it was to your flag when you dropped it).

If I'm not mistaken, several servers including HoCTF already deduct points for dropping the flag. When I have a case of spaz hands and make a few ill-prepared pickups, my score drops pretty quickly. I figure distance-scaling these would make the penalties and bonuses more reasonable on the servers that have them.

If I'm not mistaken, several servers including HoCTF already deduct points for dropping the flag. When I have a case of spaz hands and make a few ill-prepared pickups, my score drops pretty quickly. I figure distance-scaling these would make the penalties and bonuses more reasonable on the servers that have them.

Instead of "several servers", you should say "every server that is running nexuiz 2.5.2 default." It's another infamous gameplay change introduced in that version. Penalties don't make sense - when two more or less even teams play, it ends up being a soccer score because nobody bothers going for the flag not only because of defenders but also because they want to keep their score up.

[offtopic]However, the new HOCTF "rape rule" (if a team is up by six points they win) is massively popular. Games that are doomed are now much quicker - I suggest making this default behavior (perhaps with the announcer saying "STACKED" at the end of the game).[/offtopic]

[offtopic]However, the new HOCTF "rape rule" (if a team is up by six points they win) is massively popular. Games that are doomed are now much quicker - I suggest making this default behavior (perhaps with the announcer saying "STACKED" at the end of the game).[/offtopic]

This.

I'll add an item to the tracker for that.

EDIT: http://dev.xonotic.org/issues/140
Discuss the issue over there, not here

Rounding points is trivial. Teams don't have scores anymore, they have caps.