Artstyle Development

Artstyle Proposals


With the absence of art directors for now, I would like to point out a few proposals and ask for the opinions and ideas of others as well. Obviously we need an artstyle. Nexuiz again had no art direction which resulted in it having a mishmash of models, ranging from the okayish to the really bad. Being OpenSource, Xonotic will probably never attract the attention of the really good game artists out there unless you do something about its basics first.

I strongly suggest EVERYONE remotely connected to art development in Xonotic to post their ideas here and to reply to mine. With enough opinions we can start setting down solid rules and guidelines to art contributions to Xonotic.

The most important for now remains the player models. We do not have concept artists. If we did, they'd have drawn out a few proposals already on how our characters should look like. And when I say concept artists I meant those who have been drawing for games, comics, or web art for a good while now, no offense to those still starting to draw.

I am also not discounting the possibility of throwing out everything we have done so far in the interest of starting over with the input of EVERYONE. I am not the art director and I don't want to be, so please please sahre your thoughts NOW so we can finalize things for guiding the modelers the riggers and other artists.

Anyway so here are the points, the following are already necessary, only the values are debatable.

BASIC GUIDELINES:

1) All player models must conform to the basic size and shape of a humanoid mesh. There will be NO ultrathin models and no giant bulky ones in the official xonotic build. The proportions must match for the sake of fairness. If anyone has access to and is able to, I'd like them to export an .obj file of a basic character with the correct proportions and size so artists can download this and base new characters from there. This will hopefully be made available somewhere (in our wiki probably).

As nawks pointed out in irc. We can also opt to go for big bulky models instead (or thin ones). The important point is, to keep it consistent. And it's important we decide it ASAP

2) All player models will have 2 paintover schemes.

• The first paint scheme can cover anywhere from 20 to 80% of the body.
  
  
• The second must cover approximately 15-20% of the body, no exceptions and preferably evenly distributed throughout. This will glow throughout the game and will enable players to spot another easily. The amount covered by this second color must remain consistent throughout all the player models.
  

3) All player models must be inspected for quality and approved upon for inclusion first. If a player model is deemed not good enough, no hard feelings. It can still be used for mods/specialty servers (for example, pure racing servers might choose to force a specific type of player model not used in DM and CTF modes, clan servers might do so as well).

And here are my proposals/questions:

PROPOSED ADDITIONAL GUIDELINES:

1) Raising the polycount limit of player models to 5000 max.

2) Seeing that we will always have very different artists with very different styles, here's something to reduce the confusion of Nexuiz

• a) First, they must stick to the first set of guidelines.
  
  
• b) Factions. Each player model must be a SET of player models, not just one. Ideally a minimum of two player models is required before approval for inclusion: male and female. Solo models will not be approved unless variations of which are made. For example, an artist might make a set of three players all with shiny mirrorlike armors, they will become a faction within Xonotic. Another artist might make a set of five players who look vaguely military, they will become another faction of Xonotic. If an artist makes a single player model who looks vaguely cyborgish but only makes one, it will be shelved or only be available as a separate model and not included in xonotic until he or another artist can make another model which is similar to the one he made.
  
  The model variation can range from simply switching different heads for bodies or having extra armor/equipment to being of different genders and/or races. e.g. faction XYZ has a distinctive armor pattern, it has three models: XYZ1 having a mickey mouse tattoo on his back, while on XYZ2 it's a bird and the head has an eyepatch, while XYZ3 is female and has a hat on.
  
  The faction's artstyle is the responsibility of the creator and subject to approval of the (yet to be formed) art team board or the (yet to volunteer) art director. This will ensure each faction will maintain a certain artstyle which when established can be copied easily. He might also (if inclined) invent the faction's background including descriptions.
  
  Also, an interesting sidenote to this: clans with an access to an artist can create their own factions and artstyles.
  

3) The creation of an art repository (possibly in a wiki). Which means all model source files (their pk3's, textures, mesh files, animation files, etc.) are available without having to hunt for them in the datafiles. On another note, I also suggest another art repository which will hold props (from models in ASE, md3, etc. formats to brushes from radiant). This will make it easier for mappers to find resources for their own maps as well as keep things consistent between different maps by having the same props used. Each entry must be arranged alphabetically with download links and descriptions. (do we even have a public wiki yet?)

4) And lastly, this is my own opinion and controversial, so I'd like your opinion on it as well. I really do not like alien playermodels, and seeing that this isn't Nexuiz anymore, I propose that we do away with alien models altogether. Modded humans (having elven ears, horns, fangs, or cybernetic implants, etc.) are acceptable but not green skinned mushroom-headed aliens with seventeen eyes. Robots and cyborgs are acceptable as well as long as they are human in form. This proposal of mine is to limit the amount of 'mishmashedness' as well as keep the balance by ensuring they remain humanoid.

This thread is open to all suggestions as to artstyle planning. I'd like to point out again, that everything me, Diabolik, and tZork (and others) has done for now are temporary until we can get everyone's opinion on this subject. They can still be approved or rejected when we can finally get an art board/director who can oversee this. Post all of your ideas so we can start building real artstyle guides and subject them to votation. The results of this will hopefully go into building a full wiki for Xonotic.

I feel strongly against a ban on non-anthropomorphic alien and robot character models. It puts major creative restraints on artists and likewise limits the visual flavor of the game and setting.

Instead, the models should be judged for visibility balance based on how well they illustrate the hitbox at different angles, in my opinion. (And of course they need to hold a gun at the same position for balance as well).


Out of curiosity, why do you want to add factions and character sets as a requirement?

Agree with Oblivion. I would also like to see each playermodel have LOD models for both lod1 and lod2, now that we have support for it. Also an art style like this is not only needed for models, but also textures, maps, HUD, menu skins etc. to keep it all as consistent as possible. Of course we don't want to limit the artist's possibilities too much, but we don't want to end up with something Nexuiz was either, a dumpster of various content of different art styles (ranging from egypt textures, medieval textures to sci-fi textures).

@Flying Steel:

Hence the thread. Remember, none of these proposals rely on MY decision. It's OURS. If majority wants aliens still, then I'd have to go along too.

But as FruitieX mentioned, this was Nexuiz' main problem. We had player models ranging from alien carnis to a quite unreptile-looking reptiles. This just puts way too much variability among them imo, that it would be impossible to put them all together in a game and not look like it was scavenged off a dozen different games.

As for the faction proposal, same as above. This is to ensure that a player model will never be alone (thus stand out). It will always have similar player models with it. In Nexuiz, AFAIK the only player models with this was Xolar and Carni. Artstyles within the faction can be standardized independently of the other factions, as long as the quality remains consistent as well as the visibility (hitbox is sadly irrelevant as it is the same for all models, but a big player model will always be easier to see than a thin one).

That said I am not against non-anthropomorphic parts. For example, we can have metal tentacle arms on a soldier, as long as the soldier himself conforms to the agreed upon size and proportions. Or you can have a soldier with a metal tail or robot with an extra set of arms or different leg/arm joints, again as long as they conform to the standard size.

The main point here is to avoid looking like as if we borrowed everything from other games and ended up with knights fighting zombies fighting elves fighting wookies fighting vampires fighting storm troopers fighting Giger's alien fighting pokemon fighting zelda.

The main point here is to avoid looking like as if we borrowed everything from other games and ended up with knights fighting zombies fighting elves fighting wookies fighting vampires fighting storm troopers fighting Giger's alien fighting pokemon fighting zelda.

I agree fully!

Psh. Come on guys.

There are other ways to stop the 'dumpster effect' as FruitieX delicately put it.

My faction/no aliens idea is only one of the ways, but I'm still not too sure that it will work even. We need YOUR suggestions on how to avoid it, plus more suggestions on what they want to see in xonotic.

I thought the main problem with Nexuiz player models was that they looked crap, not that they were inconsistent. Many commercial FPSs have a great variety of models, bulky and thin, and imo this is a good thing as it allows more player choice as well as artistic freedom. I'm not sure how hitboxes work here but that part obviously has to be consistent.

The factions and paint scheme guidelines are good ones.

The main point here is to avoid looking like as if we borrowed everything from other games and ended up with knights fighting zombies fighting elves fighting wookies fighting vampires fighting storm troopers fighting Giger's alien fighting pokemon fighting zelda.

I giggled. The mental images are too good.

Shouldn't this type of thing also extend to mapping and the likes? The Nexuiz maps were kinda a garage sale. Thing wanted never found, while not a distinctively similar look throughout.

Yes this does definately apply to mapping. I always saw nexuiz as having a sort of techno/industrial style to it. The mix mash of different art was quite neat at times but a proper direction would be nice. Personally I really just work with whatever texture sets happen to be lying around at the time...

As to models, we need a setting first. Are we in the future? Another part of the galaxy? Do aliens exist/are they relevant? I think these are questions that need answers as well and will help define what Xonotic sets out to be.

As I said in another thread, my only suggestion is to have models that can hold the weapon in their hands/tentacles. And yes, it's better is they have a humanoid form.

I know that many people still want to play this with a geforce mx 440, but times are changing, we have to move on and evolve. If we stick to this limit always, it's not good.

What we should do (as suggested by oblivion), is to raise the poly count (5000 sounds like a good limit) for player models and support DSX (Damn Small Xonotic) for players that want to play with low graphics.

my little suggestion, make something like reptile from nex. I love this slippy, hunched creature

anyway i agree it all should be consistent. I, as an average player, can live without robo-alien-playermodels.

we need more textures

I agree fully with Oblivion. The random unrelated models indicate character based play when really the game more realistic if its about opposing teams. This would also offer the advantage to ctf and carnage game play modes adding realism. I propose a small amount of factions to the community.


Firstly I will address some milestones to do with game play and story;

I will set the date of Xonotic to be somewhere in the mid 2nd millennium AD. This date is extrapolated off the technology proposed in the game. I will explain how I got to this date.



*Aliens:

In Xonotic as an example teleporters, or now warpzones are used. Teleportes could be explained by the destruction and reassembly of individual atoms to change the position of a living individual. Assuming that memory and experience are recorded to an external computer, and that you are the same person (have the same soul some would say), when you are cut and pasted in reality, then reassembly of a new 'you' is quite possible. So weather your atoms are recycled on the battle field or your character is made from scratch, this technology requires immense computing power, which according to mores law, is quite possible on the current time-line of Xonotic. This technology also agrees with the idea of 're-spawning' after being blown to smithereens.

Warpzones become a problem. The idea of a black hole crating a portal in space is quite well known. Although in order to make a warpzone to get you from one room to another, would still take enormous amounts of energy. If we permit that the energy of black holes have been harnessed. Then that also permits intergalactic space travel, which I think is far to over the top. The reason being, if we were to find a alien race in another galaxy, the likely hood that they would look anything close to humanoid is ridiculous. As Oblivion put quite humorously, “green skinned mushroom-headed aliens with seventeen eyes”. I think a huge misconception with science fiction is the fact that the time it will take another alien race to find us at the same level of technology at this period of time would be tremendously unlikely. With the amount of stars in the universe other life is indeed possible. But the technology it would take to make contact with them would have monumentally advanced.
Although, this could be possible if, and only if this alien species made the same origin of life as us.This would also us having a humanoid alien race if we suggest they come from the same origin. Which I would say be the most fantastic story line. The name Xonotic suggesting the origin of life of these species, in a universe with mind boggling amounts of stars.
I therefor suggest that Xonotic takes place no further than the local interstellar cloud, which is 30 light-years across. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_l...e_universe. Plausible space travel within a 30 light-year range would require close to light speed space travel. For example Avatar the movie uses with antimatter drives which allow space craft to get to 0.7c which will get you to nearest star system Alpha Centauri in 5 years
The technological level of a space bearing civilization is directly proportional to the energy it can create.

*Breathing in space and naked skin:

Many promises of nanotechnology are quite false or at least unforeseeable in 500 years. The grey earth scenario is implantable. Self-assembling nanobots are much more complex than just plane old nanobots. The idea that self-assembling nanobots can consume things at the rates expressed in common science fiction, such as the Effile Tower getting consumed in a matter of seconds in GI Joe the Rise of the Cobra for example is ridiculous. The rate at which bacteria or a virus consume and multiple is fairly unnoticeable to the human eye, so the thought that a designed robot can do exponentially better than an evolved machine is unlikely.
With that being said certain nanotechnology would be quite plausible in this era. The best explanation for breathing in space is the use of respirocyte's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirocyte. When replacing the blood with these, it is claimed you can hold your breath for 4 hours!
As for skin in space a nanofabric shell over the skin would be quite a cool work around. Therefor by saying this, Xonotic needs much more reference to nanotechnology, levels like toxic from Nexuiz would be great candidates to start.

*Why fight?

Why have small battles between a few soldiers? Well if you haven't noticed, most of the Nexuiz levels are located in isolated places not, in the center of train stations at peak hour. Meaning small fights can take place between you and other factions, with death in most cases not being a worries due to re-spawn technology.



Proposed Xonotic Factions:

I have put much thought into this and have decided 4 factions is a good number allowing for all types of game-play and good variety without an over whelming about characters. Also allows for 2 factions to be allies and room for a tight story line. For now they are just given basic names for familiarity.

If it is decided by the community particular factions could have advantages and disadvantages. I have stated example ones. Don't bother auguring whether they are fair, they are just examples. Majority vote will determine weather it happens.

Cyborgs
Native Colour: Blue/Cyan
Origin: Earth - Sol
Background: After Earth evenly became left for dead, polluted and over populated, due to capitalism taking full force into the early 2nd millennium. Although technology and production thrived, at the expense of the planet. Many fled to new worlds hoping to finds themselves in the environment their ancestors where brought up into. Those who stayed indulged in taking evolution entirely into there own hands using technology. The gap between the rich and poor meant that the rich are a far more superior race with the poor working class merely paid slaves. The rich take there augmentations are to the extreme, with digestive systems removed and replaced with fusion cells, entire nevious systems and limbs replaced for enhanced reaction, even large parts of the brain replaced.
Possible Advantage: Agility – Increase strife jumping acceleration.
Possible Disadvantage: health degrades faster than other factions

Martians
Native Colour: Red/Orange
Origin: Mars - Sol
Background: After humans gradual terraforming of mars was completed, sanctions were imposed agents capitalism in-order to prevent the degradation of the newly formed environment. Superior through genetics, via eugenics and socialist rule, the martians accelerated their evolution, only allowing the strongest to survive. Have various other out posts in the local interstellar cloud. And are at a constant cold war with the Cyborgs.
Possible Advantages: Strength - +5% to weapon damage.
Possible Disadvantage: Slower than other factions

Robots
Native Colour: Yellow/Grey
Origin: Planet X - Alpha Centauri 4.37 light years away from Sol
Background: After computer power increase to a enormous amounts from the push of capitalism artificial intelligence began to appear. The artificial species segregated on earth, only kept slaves on, one by one escaped. First inhabiting the moons of Saturn. Eventually the robotic was slowly push out of Sol until it made its way to the star system Alpha Centauri. Once the system was inhabited, no cyborgs where permitted within. Although they do have close relations to the Martians.
Possible Advantage: Endurance – Less health or armor degradation
Possible Disadvantage: – take +5% damage agents energy attacks

Aliens
Native Colour: Green/Purple
Origin: Planet Y - Epsilon Eridani 10.5 light years away from Sol
Background: First and only alien race discovered in the galaxy. Humanoid appearance only suggests that both humans and aliens eventuated from the same origin, hence the hunt for the origin of life and Xonotic (what ever that may be, possible an ancient alien race that are so evolved they are interdimetional god like beings). Have 3 fingers and with green blood. Are in regular trade with the Cyborgs.
Possible Advantage: Bonus – strength lasts for longer periods of time.
Possible Disadvantage: None

I hope this is the basic outline of Xonotic. Its simple, accurate and exciting. I will wiki it so it can be edited by others also!

very impressive work cuinn, i like it, especially the part about mushroom headed seventeen eyes aliens

My first thought is totally offtopic here, but I'm strongly against "possible advantages/disadvantages". Let's keep the game "simple, fast, intense, and copletelely free".
* CuBe0wL wonders where he has read this...

I fully agree with Oblivion on the characters, regarding of quality. I also recommend to have different faces, skin colors, hair styles etc. for each model. Ut2k4 did this very well, they've had a dosen models just by simply altering parts.

However, a variety of alien/human/robot/cyborg is needed.

Cuinnton: Technology should not be flat out explained should anything be implemented into the game. Rather than explaining tech, have subtle hints of what the tech is through hints on the texturing of the maps and models. Explanation of tech generally sounds silly in the outrun even if you do try to base it from currently existing technology and concepts.

The factions are a really good idea. All you need to do is drop the advantage/disadvantage and it is perfect. Stories behind the factions are decent enough sounding plausible enough. However, should it be implemented, it should be secondary placed somewhere - Think singleplayer when choosing faction plus model. - that doesn't obstruct the game itself.

2) All player models will have 2 paintover schemes.

* The first paint scheme can cover anywhere from 20 to 80% of the body.
* The second must cover approximately 15-20% of the body, no exceptions and preferably evenly distributed throughout. This will glow throughout the game and will enable players to spot another easily. The amount covered by this second color must remain consistent throughout all the player models.

Very good, standards like this one are definitely needed.

3) The creation of an art repository (possibly in a wiki). Which means all model source files (their pk3's, textures, mesh files, animation files, etc.) are available without having to hunt for them in the datafiles. On another note, I also suggest another art repository which will hold props (from models in ASE, md3, etc. formats to brushes from radiant). This will make it easier for mappers to find resources for their own maps as well as keep things consistent between different maps by having the same props used. Each entry must be arranged alphabetically with download links and descriptions. (do we even have a public wiki yet?)

Also a very good idea. The easier it is for artists to access art stuff, the more they/we are motivated to contribute. Here I'd also include a few reference models in .blend or .obj format, so people can import them into their beloved 3d programs and have a scale reference. For weapons, ammo, basic player model etc. so the artists can have something to compare the scale of their model to and whether their new weapon model fits into the player's hands and so on.

The main point here is to avoid looking like as if we borrowed everything from other games and ended up with knights fighting zombies fighting elves fighting wookies fighting vampires fighting storm troopers fighting Giger's alien fighting pokemon fighting zelda.

Indeed. But we don't only need a list of the things we don't want, but also the list of things we would like to see (in other words, defined art style and world lore)

Yes this does definately apply to mapping. I always saw nexuiz as having a sort of techno/industrial style to it. The mix mash of different art was quite neat at times but a proper direction would be nice. Personally I really just work with whatever texture sets happen to be lying around at the time...

A solution here is to work on new consistent texture sets, which can all fit into the same Xonotic universe, but with one set not being too similar to another.

Cuinnton: Technology should not be flat out explained should anything be implemented into the game. Rather than explaining tech, have subtle hints of what the tech is through hints on the texturing of the maps and models. Explanation of tech generally sounds silly in the outrun even if you do try to base it from currently existing technology and concepts.

Agree completely. By explaning the tech, you only draw the attention of the critial mind to it and it becomes harder to make it sound reasonable and fitting.

@Flying Steel:

Hence the thread. Remember, none of these proposals rely on MY decision. It's OURS. If majority wants aliens still, then I'd have to go along too.

I know, that's why I'm just putting my opinion out there.

But as FruitieX mentioned, this was Nexuiz' main problem. We had player models ranging from alien carnis to a quite unreptile-looking reptiles.

IMO, it was the main problem for maps, which were sometimes inconsistent with the space/future/industrial theme expressed by the weapon and character designs. The problem with character models is that they are very low quality and too different of sizes and heights (despite being semi-humanoid; a separate issue IMO).

As for the faction proposal, same as above. This is to ensure that a player model will never be alone (thus stand out). It will always have similar player models with it.

So maybe this is enough then to ensure consistency- a player model can be very creative looking and any body plan as long as it fits the overall theme (futuristic space) and fits inside a faction (like aliens, machines, soldiers, experiments) and fits in about the same space inside the bounding box.


Also, I forgot to mention this before, but I fully 100% totally wholeheartedly agree with upping the player model poly-count to 5000. Anything less is insane.

I like Cuinniton's suggestions. But I don't think there should be advantages or disadvantages at all. Also perhaps the aliens could have blue blood ala hemocyanin or some such.

as far as mapping goes for one type of theme, im not one for futuristic maps . im more of a " look around at whats in real life" kinda mapper . but i suppose i could try to recreate some real enviornments then add touches of back to the future . i can give it a shot . my first map for xonotic is something i started for the N word game . so the futuristic theme was not inlcluded.

I agree with Oblivion pretty much through the whole post. I like the idea of having a consistent size of a model. I've been animating some of Oblivion's recent models and I think Ignis is a great model that fits the bbox and has a good size to go off of. I also like the art direction of futuristic space theme style or cyber punk or whatever you wanna call it. I am also against alien/reptile/robot whatever mostly because they didn't fit in nexuiz and I don't think they will fit here either. Like having an alien with three fingers holding a gun just doesn't make sense. Now I can see something like a robot-human blend or alien-human blend like oblivion said it should use the humanoid form.

I think we shoud focus on the story first, because we need to create a universe. The universe defines what the characters need to do to survive, what equipements they have, what kind of characters live there, what kind of aliens are known, etc.
We can't start doing the art without the story.

I think we shoud focus on the story first, because we need to create a universe. The universe defines what the characters need to do to survive, what equipements they have, what kind of characters live there, what kind of aliens are known, etc.
We can't start doing the art without the story.

this.

a unifying story and universe is what all the art needs to help hold things together.

however, I think that the singleplayer should be a separate entity from the multiplayer, in that the multiplayer is not required to coincide with any particular story or setting. this is the mode where you simply play to have fun. the singleplayer is where a story and universe are important.

also, I don't think the story should be a series of DM games, or ctf games. you can get that with multiplayer, and repeating it in singleplayer mode would be redundant. what the singleplayer needs is story specific levels, with consistent art styles, and designed to promote a feeling of going from point a to point b, to accomplish some sort of story driven task while fighting of enemies in appropriate places.(when you get to point be, say a door you go through, it then loads the next area (level))

and I don't mean that as a read all, end all. others opinion on this are welcome. I just don't think a singleplayer mode that is just a bunch of dm games with a story tacked on in the background would be interesting.

I think we shoud focus on the story first, because we need to create a universe. The universe defines what the characters need to do to survive, what equipements they have, what kind of characters live there, what kind of aliens are known, etc.
We can't start doing the art without the story.

+1

However, we don't actually need to focus on the whole story, but on the setting.

Not what happened in AD 2030, who declared independence from whom, why did aliens attack, early 21th century society did this and this...

But here be aliens, they are tall and speak weird language and want your head. Here be human federation, they are standard marines. Here be Cult of Dark Galaxy, they worship black holes.

Some background is of course needed and is welcome, but no need to create a history book out of it. In addition, I'd avoid standard and common themes and imagery. They'll never push Xonotic beyond average.

I agree for the most part with all of these ideas, but I feel we should further the artistic direction with more guidelines in this thread as well, more specifically for map and texture artistic style. Although I personally don't have much to say on the actual rules/guidelines we should create, I'm sure others could easily brainstorm them in this thread. Now firstly i'd like to say i'm not really for rejecting a map because it has a separate style, just that it would help if mappers paid attention to the guidelines. That last statement is different from my opinion on the models, as I believe we should only accept the models which fit the guidelines previously stated. But I digress.

Keeping a certain flow and design throughout maps by multiple mappers would be difficult too (Although the same can be said for models) as every mapper has their own unique way of building a map. So this is something that will need to be worked out, or simply ignored if we make guidelines. What we can do is specify certain rules for layout and balance of the maps perhaps (As well as game mode specific qualities and attributes, for example certain requirements for CTF maps to conform to), of course these rules shouldn't be too restricting though.
As for textures, I have at least one guideline to suggest. Use texture sets sparingly, avoid using a texture set in the same style repeatedly. For example, the Trak4 texture set is already being used rather harshly on the same main wall and floor textures. What I suggest would be to use derivatives of those textures, or use a different set. Hell, even mix sets. Simply avoid creating too many maps with the exact same textures.

Along these lines, we should have texture creation guidelines as well. I'll let you guys take over this idea from here.


Edit: P.S.: I'll talk about story soon.