[SUGGESTION] Machinegun damage

Hey guys,

I don't know what everyone else thinks about this but after playing Xonotic for several months I've found the machinegun to be quite weak, almost to the extent where it's useless against armored players. I've come from Cube 2: Sauerbraten where the machinegun (a minigun) does 3x's more damage than the one in this game, and the spawn machinegun in Quake 3 does about the same damage per second, without the spread and reload. I'm not sure if this is how it's supposed to be, but since it's inefficient to combo with the machinegun it seemed a little out of balance to me. I would suggest raising the damage to 15 or 20 damage per shot, and/or the reduction of the spread. Again this is just my opinion and I'm not that experienced in the game.

- Sniperz

The MG will be gone in future and it's strong if it falls into the wrong hands..

MG WEAK?! Y U NO SEEN DRAELOR WITH IT?!

Kidding, yeah MG will most likely be replaced by LG in near (or far? ) future. It's not weak but it's spread is a bit random and unpretictable, sometimes it works at distance, sometimes not etc.

mg is VERY GOOD, I've gotten 5000+ damage with it on some rounds.. and yes, draelor

besides, new balance I guess makes it loads more useful, especially in ctf and ffa(dm)

Fortunately the machinegun will most likely be swapped out in favor of a lightning gun. I'm very much looking forward to that change.

I agree with Sniperz, currently too weak in general - maybe due partly to its inconsistrncy but still feels too weak overall.
LG will need to be made stronger to compensate for its lack of range ability that the MG has..and just be stronger overall

I like the machinegun model/sound etc. and I would prefer it over a lightning gun (there's so many weapons in Xonotic that use cells as ammo), it would just be nice if it was a little more (or even equally) effective compared to the spawn machinegun in Quake 3. This is probably because the weapons in Xonotic are rather weak compared to other games because of the weapon combos but the machinegun doesn't seem to benefit from that.

- Sniperz

The ammo system will be changed as well with the addition of LG. It's very likely to get rid of bullets (MG ammo) and split up cell weapons into two ammo types (Nex+Electro / Crylink+LG).

The ammo system will be changed as well with the addition of LG. It's very likely to get rid of bullets (MG ammo) and split up cell weapons into two ammo types (Nex+Electro / Crylink+LG).

That's probably a good idea, but it just seems a little strange having so many similar (in terms of sci-fi) weapons shooting purple and blue pulses (although I like them very much). It almost seems like the mortar, rocket launcher, and shotgun will be out of place when the bullets (and their weapons) are removed. Anyway, what will happen to the rifle? (not that it's found on many maps at all)

- Sniperz

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MG WEAK?! Y U NO SEEN DRAELOR WITH IT?!

Kidding, yeah MG will most likely be replaced by LG in near (or far? ) future. It's not weak but it's spread is a bit random and unpretictable, sometimes it works at distance, sometimes not etc.

I guess when I said "weak", I meant in terms of damage output (in comparison to other weapons) vs. damage dealt. I have seen ZeRoQL make excellent kills with it, but it still takes a ton of bullets. Maybe it's just my skills that need improving

- Sniperz

The Rifle is moved to "New Toys" mutator already, which has to be enabled that it will appear. There is just an empty spot on old maps where it was placed (same for HLAC, T.A.G. Seeker and such).

My skill with it is not that good either, I've only been effective with it using it as a finishing weapon. xD

The Rifle is moved to "New Toys" mutator already, which has to be enabled that it will appear. There is just an empty spot on old maps where it was placed (same for HLAC, T.A.G. Seeker and such).

Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I think I'll create a thread for general weapon balance since it seems like people enjoy discussing that. It is possible to change the topic of this thread, or should I create a new one?

Sort of an unrelated question, but could someone please explain to me what "elo" is?

Thanks!

- Sniperz

"Elo" are points that you gain after every game you play if you meet certain requirements:

a) Stats tracking enabled (in menu under Misc I believe)
b) A server that tracks stats
c) Playing the match for a special amount of time (I believe 50%+, you get less +- if you don't play the full time though)

The system checks your score and compares it to the other players and their score and calculates your elo for the match.
Example with Duel:

You are playing a player with much higher elo - the system expects you to lose, which means you will get a lot of points if you win and don't lose much if you lose. It would be the other way round for the opponent with higher elo: does not get much for a win, but might lose a lot.

Recently I played someone with ~600 elo less than I have. I won and lost a match (maybe it helps):
http://stats.xonotic.org/game/190177?show_elo=1
http://stats.xonotic.org/game/190167?show_elo=1

For other gamemodes (CTF, TDM, CA etc.) it's the same comparsion. The only difference is that you can still gain elo points if you are in the losing team but get a good score. In Duel you lose elo points everytime you lose the match.

TDM example: http://stats.xonotic.org/game/193438?show_elo=1

You should appear here: http://stats.xonotic.org - I can't find you though. Either you are not tracking stats or anonymous.

Thanks Mirio!

I have just enabled stats/tracking in Xonotic but will all the previous games I played be listed as played by "Anonymous Player"?

I think I'll create a separate thread for weapon balance in general.

- Sniperz

Open the console (Shift+ESC) and type these commands:

cl_allow_uidtracking 1
cl_allow_uid2name 1

These should make you show up. OR you memorize a match: The server, the map, your score and roughly time you played and then try to find it at http://stats.xonotic.org/ .
You can come to IRC QuakeNet #xonotic / #xonotic.pickup and message me and we will find you / get it set up.

How does a Lightning gun replace a Machine gun?

Machine gun and lightning gun are both constant damage weapons that also happen to be hitscan. The machine gun has consistency problems and also has an unlimited range (though the accuracy prevents it from being a sniping weapon) making it bad for competitive play. A lightning gun on the other hand won't have consistency issues and will fire a limited range beam, making it a prime replacement for the machine gun. Both weapons primary roles really are to finish off a seriously damaged enemy, though the machinegun is far more versatile than it should be and it shares similarities to other weapons in the game.

Machine gun and lightning gun are both constant damage weapons that also happen to be hitscan. The machine gun has consistency problems and also has an unlimited range (though the accuracy prevents it from being a sniping weapon) making it bad for competitive play. A lightning gun on the other hand won't have consistency issues and will fire a limited range beam, making it a prime replacement for the machine gun. Both weapons primary roles really are to finish off a seriously damaged enemy, though the machinegun is far more versatile than it should be and it shares similarities to other weapons in the game.

I haven't used a LG in many games but the only game I know of where the LG is hitscan is in Quake Live. In Quake 3 Arena and Open Arena (and also Painkiller if you count the electrodriver as a lightning gun) the lightning gun has quite a bit of lag to it. For me I guess I feel that Xonotic could better use something like a plasma gun. The closest thing to this was the secondary fire of the crylink in Xonotic 6.0 which had a single bounce and fired at a relatively fast rate, but this was changed in 7.0. The other problem with adding a lightning gun (or a plasma gun, for that matter) is that would mean another weapon using "cells" as ammo. Already there are far more weapons using cells than any other kind of ammo. Again, just my opinion.

-Sniperz

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Open the console (Shift+ESC) and type these commands:

cl_allow_uidtracking 1
cl_allow_uid2name 1

These should make you show up. OR you memorize a match: The server, the map, your score and roughly time you played and then try to find it at http://stats.xonotic.org/ .
You can come to IRC QuakeNet #xonotic / #xonotic.pickup and message me and we will find you / get it set up.

Thanks Mirio,

I can now find my name at stats.xonotic.org. Only it tells me I have 285 elo for duels but I can't find my name anywhere on the leaderboard.

-Sniperz

You need 32 elo games for the gamemode to appear in the ranks.

"Elo: 371.91 (duel, 4 games)" - 28 to go.