[SUGGESTION] CAGE MATCH!!! Fruit VS LeeStricklin VS RZDE

EDIT: A NEW CHALLENGER HAS ARRIVED!!!!
Can an admin plz change the poll to reflect this? Deleting doesn't seem to work.

Grab some time and screw around with the available configurations. There are four major ones that have been developed on that I know of, one of which I'm not sure is complete yet and another I know isn't complete, so you'll mostly be judging the "direction" of those two. This thread was spun off of a discussion that was happening on this thread:
http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php...8#pid16058

balanceFruit is the current default, so it's already active when you start Xonotic.


To try out my settings, just type in (assuming it's still in the GIT):

exec physicsLeeStricklin.cfg
exec balanceLeeStricklin.cfg

into your console before starting a game


To try out rainerzufalldererste's settings, then download, extract, and place it in your xonotic/data/xonotic-data.pk3dir directory. On a Linux system that will most likely be in your home folder.

Download link EDIT: Had an older version linked
http://forums.xonotic.org/attachment.php?aid=198

After that type in:

exec balance-physic_rzde.cfg

into your console before starting a game


balanceTest. This one is in the GIT, so in order to test it you just have to type in:

exec balanceTest.cfg

into the console before starting a game


After playing around with them and thinking them over, come back here post some feedback. A few things to think about are: do the weapons feel alright, is a map (think of some of your favorites from Nexuiz) going to be broken with these, does movement suck, are the caps and rot system sane, things like that.

There is also a fourth contender: balanceTest.cfg by tZork and me, which tries to feel mostly like Nexuiz, but with the new features in FruitieX's balance.

It is not entirely finished yet, but the direction should be quite clear already.

There is also a fourth contender: balanceTest.cfg by tZork and me, which tries to feel mostly like Nexuiz, but with the new features in FruitieX's balance.

It is not entirely finished yet, but the direction should be quite clear already.

A NEW CHALLENGER HAS ARRIVED!!!
Can an admin edit the poll to include this. It should now be balanceFruit VS LeeStricklin VS RZDE VS balanceTest.cfg

Done. If the one person who already voted and whose name starts with a F would want to change his vote after the addition of this new option, please tell me about it.

Wow...I need to vote for a mix of two, the movement and speed of FruitieX's with the laser setup of Lee's. Weapon balance wise, I didn't have a good way to test it. Nex combo's still feel weak, but Lee's felt stronger than the others.

Yeah, I guess I kinda screwed this poll up by not setting it up that way. I just tried out Fruitiex's physics and they're damn near flawless when sped up a little. I punched in these two values from my physics file in with Fruitiex's settings:

sv_accelerate 13
sv_maxspeed 420

That gave his physics a much needed turbo boost, though it's a bit too much, I'll have to tone them down probably to about 23MPH. Not so sure about his weapons and balance, though I have to give him credit for bringing in some interesting ideas. I'm pretty content with my balance file, though modified Fruitiex physics beats the hell out of my physics file.

, gonna rebuild git and check out his updated balance.cfg. He put vertical laser force to almost Nexuiz but left eh horizontal force at the lower value.

For me I love the super fast pace of Nexuiz so here is my impression on these balances.

This will hold true for me no matter what balance comes around, I must have my Nexuiz laser. I love pushing people around, jumping high, fighting in air, and moving fast.

Default (Fruit) seemed a bit sluggish to me, felt kind of like I was wading through water, this goes against why I like these types of games, it must be fast. I also don't like the laser in this setup. The laser has been reduced way to much, see above statement. I kind of love the xon charging idea, I didn't like the speed of the charge, too slow.

Lee's balance is okay for the most part, I would prefer more laser push, not a lot just some.

rainerzufalldererste's settings felt a bit to "floaty" for me, its nice that you can move fast but when jumping or lasering it felt like I was in the air forever, need more gravity and stuff. Also, whats with with the laser secondary. I love the laser secondary as the previous weapon. Think of it this way, if I running along with my xon out and I want to do a laser jump then I have to hit my xon bind to go back to my xon, that's fine with me as I have a xon bind. The problem comes when I am running along and have my SG out or some other non bound weapon, if I want to do a laser jump and go back to my weapon then I have to a) scroll to it or b) have a bound key for every weapon in the game, to me that just seems like complicated step that doesn't need to be there.

tZork and divVerent felt the best to me, I like the movement for the most part, I loved the laser. The electro felt good, none of the lightning gun crap. The xon charging was fun but I feel like it might be a bit fast and doesn't use enough ammo to charge. I didn't have anyone to test the balance with but I feel that if you use the ammo usage from fruitiex's cfg and then a little slower charging speed than tZork and divVerent's cfg then you would have a good balance.

Overall I see it like a combination of tZork and divVerent's with Fruitiex's and Lee's. What I mean by that is that they need to be merged where with a 80 or 85% weight to tZork and divVerent's cfg, 7.5 to 10% weight for both Fruitiex's and Lee's cfg. Thought if I had to choose one for the game it would be tZork and divVerent's.

I do want to say thought that I am heavily biased towards Nexuiz. I also didn't spend a ton of time, about a hour or so fooling around and in no way was I testing all scenarios. Other than the balance issues we have I love what y'all have done with the game. Thanks guys for working so hard on this.

PS No fall dmg, or at least like it was in Nexuiz, unnoticeable.

I didnt test the new balance/movement settings so I didnt vote, but I notice one thing: no one is saying on which map he is testing them. I think this is very important to know because mappers has to work with these settings on new maps and it will also show for what kind of maps these settings are the best.

Just to add it, in the past I tested the settings on my new map(perkele) and some oldschool 1v1 maps like final_rage, toxic and stormkeep.

I didnt test the new balance/movement settings, but I notice one thing: no one is saying on which map he is testing them. I think this is very important to know because mappers has to work with these settings on new maps and it will also show for what kind of maps these settings are the best.

Just to add it, in the past I tested the settings on my new map(perkele) and some oldschool 1v1 maps like final_rage, toxic and stormkeep.

That is a VERY good point. FYI the maps I primarily tested were Deck 16 ][ port by Mircea Kitsune (because it has almost everything, open spaces, aerial opportunities, narrow corridors, etc.), Abandoned (good for testing control, due to it being easy to fall off of), Stormkeep, and a few others. I try to use a variety of maps where there's opportunities to use different tactics and different weapons. One major focus I had when doing this was to make sure no Nexuiz or Xonotic maps were broken.

Voted, balanceFruit.cfg, best balanced and fastest without the imbalances of the former Nexuiz, laser is quite usable for height (not as strong as the other boost weapons but strong enough push wise, takes 2-3 lasers to reach 1.5 k speed). Hopefully it matters.

FINALLY some good clan arena matches have been played with the defaults [thanks unknown, thyr4ne and sless. ggs] (with balanceXonotic.cfg, physicsNoQWBunny-xpmbased.cfg with 400 sv_maxspeed [in fruitiex/fruitphys])

I can proudly say that there's really nothing missing from balanceXonotic.cfg. Really, it's lots of fun to play with this.
It's already turned out pretty stable and mature, now just a couple of values might need tweaking to balance the last remaining things out. I'd say this is by far the most fun, varied balance, definitely ready for the beta. Don't even try bringing back the flawed stuff from Nexuiz.

The people who say that it's slower / more on the ground are outright liars, it's just different.

Yeah I voted for balanceFruitwhatever too, big surprise eh?

I has spoken.

Edit: Oh as for maps, we tested on glowplant, stormkeep, perkele, aggressor, runningmanctf and g-23.

---

Now only if we could get everyone to vote.

Would it be possible to see demos of the games you had?

Definitely. I'm uploading them here as we speak:
http://hrfdesign.com/crap/index.php?dir=cademos/

We adjusted some settings over the course of all these demos, it ended up better towards the end (everyone was actually playing then as well, we adjusted stuff such as lower health/armor in CA, more DPS on uzi and electro)

Just my instant feedback after watching the demos: it seems to me that the action is globally fuzzy and approximative. I mean your accuracies are quite low (taking into account that you and unknownnf are solid nexuiz players), especially with nex.
Just a concrete illustration: on stormkeep (around 10'30 iirc), unknownnf shot at you 9 rockets in a small room, without making much damage, and then finally decided to stop attacking.

Does anybody share my impression? If so, where does it come from?

Probably comes from the 400 maxspeed which is making it too hard to hit with a combination of no fullbright player's they are very hard to see, I had the same problem's but the extra maxspeed for me is as I said before, making it very spammy randomness at time's to hit someone.

For me, the maxspeed to 400 is just too much and is making it really very hard to hit opponents (coupled with no fullbrights).

320 speed the best, low damage. what was the worst in Nexuiz balance: 2 laser shots and You could reach 1500 speed, So I like new settings You cannot loose control so easily. Weak Weapons boost force players to pay more attenition when making speed. Everything I want from balance it's to prevent gameplay changing into "typical minstagib shit".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIzTH27huAA - typical minstagib sh*t
Nex should be weak enough, let "1 shot one kill" be for a minstagibers in their servers (mainly German)
No camping more.
No "one weapon users" more.
No "one shot eaters" more.
Balancefruit (default) +

For me, a major disturbing aspect is that models seem to not be animated fluidly (even though my average fps is higher than 150). They move jerky, so path prediction is wayyyy more complicated.

Am I the only one noticing it??

Edit: and just a side note on models: they seem to weigh 35 kg, but they do a sound of an elephant when jumping...

Just my instant feedback after watching the demos: it seems to me that the action is globally fuzzy and approximative. I mean your accuracies are quite low (taking into account that you and unknownnf are solid nexuiz players), especially with nex.
Just a concrete illustration: on stormkeep (around 10'30 iirc), unknownnf shot at you 9 rockets in a small room, without making much damage, and then finally decided to stop attacking.

Does anybody share my impression? If so, where does it come from?

My accuracy in those maches ranged from 40 to 50% nex wise, also I am suffering from some wierd performance problems which is why i can barely hit something with the rockets(sound related, drops fps a lot). Also what kojn said is true, rockets are quite easy to dodge with that maxspeed, coupled with the models animation being bad (REALLY hard to predict where somebody is moving) made it more of a hit and miss.

Hopefully model animations will become smoother over time, Morfar made some really cool and smooth models for Nexuiz during the late stages of 2.6 development, perhaps the same techniques can be used here. Also the models look really thin which makes em even harder to see (35 kg isn't a overstatement, they should be fed some more) and having no fullbrights is even worse. All in all i was quite happy with the balance in the matches, sure had some "bad" moments but it was generally fun, even rockets with 400 speed would be more balanced with some better model animations that allow predicting where the model is moving.

Hopefully model animations will become smoother over time

I would even say that fluid model animations should be of very very very high priority now.
And this, before wondering if maxspeed should be 398 or 400.
I hardly see how balances can be seriously assessed with jerky models.

Again, am I the only one noticing this???

No you are not, however even nexuiz was plagued by this problem, animations just sucked. HOPEFULLY they will become smoother over time IF we get a good animator around, TOUGH I highly doubt it, most open source shooter games are plagued by this problem. As far as i know it could be done with CSQC players, but they are really slow, also animation blending or so may help as two animations can be blended in one

But i'm quite stunned that, so far, nobody seems to care about this.
Or probably some do, but elsewhere than in the forum.
But even in this case, i don't get how the community could rationaly choose some directions.

Naive questions: would it be possible to rather test balance&physics into a Nexuiz framework instead?
Or run Xonotic but with square boxes instead of models?
Or do any simplifications which provide a still representative framework?

But i'm quite stunned that, so far, nobody seems to care about this.
Or probably some do, but elsewhere than in the forum.
But even in this case, i don't get how the community could rationaly choose some directions.

Naive questions: would it be possible to rather test balance&physics into a Nexuiz framework instead?
Or run Xonotic but with square boxes instead of models?
Or do any simplifications which provide a still representative framework?

It is impossible to test these physics under Nexuiz because of changes made to Darkplaces. I tried doing that once and some funky stuff happened.

It's not that nobody cares, it's just that nobody can do them the right way, it's either too much programming involved OR hurts performance AND both options need new high quality animations. We do care, i constantly moan about this but i can't do animations (well rather than basic stuff, i'd do really really bad in organic animations). Nexuiz SUFFERED from the same problem, there the animations are JUST as bad, models were bulkier and nobody seemed to notice. Take a nexuiz frag movie and put it next to a quake one and see the difference, heck even UT99 is better.

We need either animation blending or CSQC models or both dunno how it can work, where the speed, direction of movement and direction of looking is pased by the server and the client puts and animates the model in the proper order, divVerent has said that this will be added eventually, it's just too much work to do all at once. Anyways this is getting off topic, create a new topic please.

Thanks. It's getting clear.
Off-topic off.