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DCC goes Xonotic

#1
Hey there!

We are in the process of migrating the DCC servers to Xonotic. It is planned to do the final migration of the servers with the 0.6 release of Xonotic.

Based on esteel's work (done a while ago already) the migration has started with the newbie server. You should already see it in the server list.

It is also planned to restructure the available game modes to have a freezetag (or possibly gamemode-votable) server.

During the migration you probably will have to endure instabilities, server restarts, incorrectly configured servers and more fun. Also it will take a while to bring the servers into a good shape (concerning configuration and available maps) as my available time is limited. Please accept my humble apologies for that.

Please note that the servers are running a recent git version. To enjoy the games you need a recent git or autobuild version, or 0.6. With 0.5 clients you will experience lags and the "black map" effect.

Special thanks go to sxen for running the servers and to esteel, CuBe0wl and other admins(*) for creating the server setup! Smile

(*) I must admit that I don't even know who else invested which work in the server :'(
[Tue Aug 5 2008] [00:15:01] <Ronan`> RoKenn, you're an evil person Tongue
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#2
Thanks a lot, I already noticed that server! Good to hear that DCC's servers are migrating!
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#3
This is great news!
"Yes, there was a spambot some time ago on these forums." - aa
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#4
Good news! Thx to sxen and the server admins! Smile
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#5
Yeah, seen messages on DCC servers popping up. These are some of the most popular Nexuiz servers, so there may be decent amount of new Xonotic players.
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#6
I hope the DM Nexuiz little community will follow the DCC's. Is there going to be a 1v1 server? Public or private ?
Good news anyway. Especially for French players whose conditions are good enough on DCC.

Thanks admins.
Awesome, did Qz show you that ?
Nexuiz : I Reach the top5 of the ladder (even top3 I guess). Top1 French for quite some time (when active) of ladder. Top5 of some tournaments (if I remember well)
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#7
Thumbs Up 
(02-07-2012, 04:46 PM)rafallus Wrote: Yeah, seen messages on DCC servers popping up. These are some of the most popular Nexuiz servers, so there may be decent amount of new Xonotic players.

Just moved from DCC and did some testing. Looks good but I see few nuisances for us guys comming from Nexuiz. Pls have a look at em Cool


I read that you dont need strafe when turning in bunny hops. That's fine. Yet when I do strafe in turns, like many Nexuiz players will do at least for a while, the effect is exact opposite to what it appears it should be. I feel _huge_ inertia to the opposite of strafe direction. Mouse-only turn is tighter. Is that what it is supposed to be?

In the Xonotic DCC laser-jumps seem weak. Can hardly jump to the roof in xoylent. Also I dont see much difference between shooting laser under my legs and shooting+jumping. And on top of that it seams that long but flat jumps that you could do in Nexuiz (with vertical laser movement during shot) somehow dont work in here. Is that what it is supposed to be? Laser moving would be hugely reduced then, and it is/was one nice part of Nexuiz.

How do you pad-jump in Xonotic? It is doable (but nowere as high as in Nexuiz DCC) but I can't get the timing right. Seems somehow random at this time to me Huh

Overall going from Nexuiz DCC to Xonotic DCC I feel like lots of lead were put in my belly. So heavy Big Grin

And then there is the nex Rolleyes Damage seem fine. Charging, well, it's not bad. But now nex seems to not push target as it is pushing in Nexuiz (even fully loaded). In CTF this pushing is/was more important than the damage itself. You could push FC off the map with well placed shot. But I fear not in DCC Xonotic. Intentional? (Speaking about charging - it promotes camping with zoom at least in open maps; wouldn't it be better to reduce damege in zoom + rise bar for accuracy in primary - i.e. you really need to aim well to not miss - and then get rid of charging?)

I see you can hardly use granade launcher secondary to put a fance against opponents following you (usefull for, say, FC). Granades explode very quickly. In Nexquiz you could use em to block passage for good few seconds. What's the usage for secondary now?

Oh, and where did speedometer/accelerometer went to?

My few input from a bit of testing.
Good work here!
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#8
Hoi ho SubZero - nice to see some new oldish people coming over to Xon.

The DCC servers run with "normal" Xonotic physics. So there's no alteration made in gravity, cycling, bunnyhopping or speed.
As well havent the weapons been touched.
Laser / Minelayer / Nex are reacting to their "normal" behaviour.

But weaponproperities have changed - you're right. I.e. the Laser has less horizontal push than in nexuiz. It has to be timed differently (first jump, then shoot instead of jump+shoot in the same moment [Nex]). Pad jumps got a hell nastier to do. It's easiest to perform with Mortar or RL (due to splashdamage I suppose).

The Nexpush has been altered, you're right. Dunno exactly how exactly WHAT the devs did, but according to the old game it's been "weaker" to players opposit in direction to the shot (coming towards you). On the other hand, while being in the air - moving away from you - and getting a nexshot will throw the enemyplayer right straight into nirvana.

Try mid-air shots with mortar - thats even MOAR funny Smile

Mortar 2nd doesnt stay anymore for ... 2 or 3 seconds. It has higher damage, a higher push, and explodes exactly 0.5seconds after the first contact with a surface. It's very useful when you hear the enemy, but actually have to shoot "around a corner".
This "fencing" is best made (imo) with Electro-combo (afaik the most damaging method) or Crylink (using the spreadvariances / decreasing speed of the opponent while hitting).


But there's an extra-thread by rafallus concerning core differences between Nexuiz and Xonotic . There you'll get more input to the weaponchanges.

And here a Xonotic Movement Tutorial there's explained how fast movement in Xonotic can be achieved.

Happy fragging Smile
[Image: Sigsig.jpg]
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#9
Laser push timing in general has changed because of the server tic rate increasing. The shot origin is not off as it was in nexuiz, so you can't boost yourself forward by wall-lasering in front of you anymore. I guess there are also side effects on laserpadding.
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#10
Too bad with laser. That used to be the movement weapon. Any possible tweaks to server config so laser gets its due strengths? Smile It was the hallmark of nexuiz. And what about this strafe side effect? Perhaps I do something wrong here?

(02-09-2012, 03:04 AM)Sless Wrote: And here a Xonotic Movement Tutorial there's explained how fast movement in Xonotic can be achieved.

This tutorial is very similar to Nexuiz, but it looks to me the physics have changed since this one was made.
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#11
That tutorial is as old as dirt lol it was made when a VERY controversial physics set was in use and a lot of balance and physics discussion hell had the place lit up. Also since someone mentioned something about it, the mortar secondary actually has a timer on it that doesn't start ticking until it hits something.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#12
The laser still is the movement weapon I think?
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#13
Mortar is now good for around corner shoots, true. In Nexuiz you would either use Hagar secondary (which was specifically for around corner shooting) or rocket guiding. Mortar was good to put temporary traps behind you or to flank your opponent when he runs away from you (as in proper Toxic game play, e.g.). In my opinion that previous usage was nicer. Electro secondary is weak for that. For combo you need to be in sight of plasma balls.

Quote:The laser still is the movement weapon I think?

Not to the extent it could be Smile From what I understant you can't, e.g., do forward jump off the floor. That is/was very nice part of game. Same with huge laser-pad-jumps (but perhaps this one is a matter of timing).
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#14
You can still use the laser for movement very effectively, it doesn't push you that far upwards anymore, but that's about it. For forward acceleration it's useful to have a wall nearby, but if you already bunny hop you can use the laser for forward acceleration even without wall (just shoot down while in the air, it's a matter of timing). To me, the laser still is a very powerful movement tool, and I was totally addicted to the laser in Nexuiz times (played many games laser only on ffa dm).

Laser padding seems to be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish for me now, but that's a feature I don't miss that much personally. Would of course be nice, but I can get along without it too.

Due to lesser push force (at least it feels lesser) and/or more air control it got reasonably difficult to push people off the map with the laser, which is the only thing that I feel sorry about in comparison to the Nexuiz laser.

The mortar secondary is imho really better than at Nexuiz times, whereas placing of secondary grenades was more or less random due to fixed detonation time, you can now really nicely calculate where a secondary grenade will detonate. Imho the grenade secondary works VERY reliably now, and much less random.

For laying traps for an opponent that's pursuing you, electro indeed is a bit weak, but mine layer is really cool for that (though available on only a few maps).
[Image: 249.png] Latest track on soundcloud: Farewell - to a better Place (piano improvisation)
New to Xonotic? Check out my Newbie Corner!
<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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#15
I'm not sure what you mean by "forward jump on the floor" but I could jump quite high while running forward if that's what you mean. Laser timing with respect to jump is different from nexuiz for the tic rate reason mentioned above, you have to re-learn that part Smile
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#16
(02-09-2012, 07:13 AM)Halogene Wrote: Laser padding seems to be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish for me now, but that's a feature I don't miss that much personally. Would of course be nice, but I can get along without it too.

Due to lesser push force (at least it feels lesser) and/or more air control it got reasonably difficult to push people off the map with the laser, which is the only thing that I feel sorry about in comparison to the Nexuiz laser.

Well I do hope some of this can be remedied with some config work Shy On Laid Back DCC pad jumps were used _heavily_. Certain maps were build/played all around it - Mental, Mentalrespaced, gasolinepowered, evil - pretty much any open space map had pad for laser jumps in strategic places. Push strength of laser - I hope it's a config matter Cool
Xonotic looks good so I hope in DCC it wont become somehow "striped" of tricks.
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#17
Quote:gasolinepowered

This one got pretty much a direct remake - see space-elevator. Evilspace (CTF) is also frequently played on minsta + hook server.
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#18
Mortar secondary is indeed much nicer now, once you can start too time it, you can bounce it off the ground/walls at the right angles too explode where your opponent is.

As for laser, yes it is now a bit weaker, but the guys already commented on it and it's horizontal force etc, you can actually move faster around the maps now then in nexuiz because of the physics changes, so the laser force actually fits that, it probably is a bit harder for you too realise at the moment as you are not used too the physics but this has been changed this way for a long time now, as before the force was too much. Also vertical jumps require a bit more ability too get too SOME places, or more laser jumps, and the laser jump height fit's maps much better now. In nexuiz I was forever hitting the ceiling on maps or overjumping ledges by a lot.
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#19
_Subzero_ Wrote:In the Xonotic DCC laser-jumps seem weak. Can hardly jump to the roof in xoylent. Also I dont see much difference between shooting laser under my legs and shooting+jumping.

The timing of the "shooting+jumping" is slightly different than in Nexuiz. It still works and is better of course. Pusing from walls is possible like in Nexuiz. I think you should practise it more. Wink I can show it to you, if you want to:
-> IRC at QuakeNet: #xonotic, #xonotic.pickup

Which Xonotic version do you actually use? Because it is (I would even say, very) different in 0.5 than in the current version.

(02-09-2012, 07:13 AM)Halogene Wrote: Laser padding seems to be very difficult if not impossible to accomplish for me now, but that's a feature I don't miss that much personally. Would of course be nice, but I can get along without it too.

That's just a matter of practise I guess. It's a bit different than in Nexuiz, but it works - it's useless in a lot of maps though.

halogene Wrote:The mortar secondary is imho really better than at Nexuiz times, whereas placing of secondary grenades was more or less random due to fixed detonation time, you can now really nicely calculate where a secondary grenade will detonate. Imho the grenade secondary works VERY reliably now, and much less random.

Yes, I love the Mortar secondary! It is much better now and if you know it well you can use it for 'traps' as well. Tongue
@Subzero: The secondary grenade only detonates after it hits -something- (~0,5-1 sec. or so-I don't know exactly).
So you can shoot it pretty far as well.
Examples (I guess):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhPQFaXE6Ps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBRLn9CQaqY (first scene = primary)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWL8a_15ZhU
(Detonation was longer there, but I did a similar frag yesterday - you should get the idea)
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#20
(02-09-2012, 07:23 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by "forward jump on the floor" but I could jump quite high while running forward if that's what you mean. Laser timing with respect to jump is different from nexuiz for the tic rate reason mentioned above, you have to re-learn that part Smile

In Nexuiz you could make just one/two steps out of standstill, shoot under your legs with a proper angle and put pointer horizontal (no jump key in that). The effect was a long, very flat jump at about 20m/s speed. Same could be done when on speed. With that you cold traverse facing_worlds in three/four proper laser jumps - all that pretty much on the ground so campers had it difficult to nex you Smile I do fell laser lacks some of it well deserved metrits in Xonotic DCC. Its not that much about the height but more about forward push (and of course pad-jumps) - there were so many tricks with laser, other than vertical jump / wall jumps. Either I need to adjust my timing or (I hope not) Xonotic (un)intentionally put them off.

Tested it on v0.6.

@Mortar - ok, its a matter of adjusting on my part. I used it as an "area deny" weapon not precision fighting. Didn't try mine layer but I guess it could do the trick if available on maps. Or perhaps electro secondary if it gets a bit more power.

Mirio Wrote:I can show it to you, if you want to (-> IRC: #xonotic, #xonotic.pickup).
Can't play at this time, but thx anyway. I need some more timing work Smile
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#21
(02-09-2012, 07:35 AM)_Subzero_ Wrote:
Mirio Wrote:I can show it to you, if you want to (-> IRC: #xonotic, #xonotic.pickup).
Can't play at this time, but thx anyway. I need some more timing work Smile

I'm hanging out there all day (except when I sleep Tongue) so you can just join and ask.
Also Halogene and all the othere guys in the pickup channel there will show you tricks for sure.
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#22
(02-09-2012, 07:35 AM)_Subzero_ Wrote:
(02-09-2012, 07:23 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: I'm not sure what you mean by "forward jump on the floor" but I could jump quite high while running forward if that's what you mean. Laser timing with respect to jump is different from nexuiz for the tic rate reason mentioned above, you have to re-learn that part Smile

In Nexuiz you could make just one/two steps out of standstill, shoot under your legs with a proper angle and put pointer horizontal (no jump key in that). The effect was a long, very flat jump at about 20m/s speed. Same could be done when on speed. With that you cold traverse facing_worlds in three/four proper laser jumps - all that pretty much on the ground so campers had it difficult to nex you Smile I do fell laser lacks some of it well deserved metrits in Xonotic DCC. Its not that much about the height but more about forward push (and of course pad-jumps) - there were so many tricks with laser, other than vertical jump / wall jumps. Either I need to adjust my timing or (I hope not) Xonotic (un)intentionally put them off.

Tested it on v0.6.

It works, you need to laser *behind* you. In nexuiz, the laser would hit behind because the shot lagged quite a bit, the ticrate being low. Turn around and laser the floor, or adjust your minimum/maximum pitch angle (in_pitch_min and in_pitch max) so that you can look further down than straight down.
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#23
Think quake and rocket. It works if you use it that way.
bye / bad luck and have boredom
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#24
(02-09-2012, 09:09 AM)Mr. Bougo Wrote: ...
It works, you need to laser *behind* you. In nexuiz, the laser would hit behind because the shot lagged quite a bit, the ticrate being low. Turn around and laser the floor, or adjust your minimum/maximum pitch angle (in_pitch_min and in_pitch max) so that you can look further down than straight down.

Dont even have to do that, you can "emulate" the nexuiz delay by firing the laser wile still quite high above the floor. This way you will be a bit ahead of it once it impacts. You wont get as much boost as in nexuiz, as your further way - but it does work. The best way in xonotic, however, is using wall's for laser boost instead. The laser changes was one of those things that i had a real hard time to ajust to. But trust me you will get used to is and once you do, it feels just right.
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#25
Any word when the ctf server will be up? Or is there another ctf server (not minstahook) to play on? I haven't seen any in the list.
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