In which people do not argue about ammo types

Edit from Mr. Bougo: this thread was split from this one: http://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=3527

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Wow. Again. I can't believe someone did it again. I receive so much shit from this community for every word. Why do i keep recommending people this game... we have tons of sci-fi arena shooters with shitty communities already.

It is a valuable post though because it separates your argument into manageable clauses.

Which means that before my "valuable post" it was a mess people couldn't apprehend. Nice logic there. Talk about low-effort.
You two are pathetic.

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Oh one more thing, i see you now actually divide players into categories. Casuals and skilled, eh? There are even "casual maps", eh? You know why you do this? Because if the project will fail you can always say that it's because "it required too much skill from casuals" or vice versa, "casuals killed it". Ugh.

People please, i've got a plan, just chillax and enjoy playing.

Wow. Again. I can't believe someone did it again. I receive so much shit from this community for every word. Why do i keep recommending people this game... we have tons of sci-fi arena shooters with shitty communities already.

I'm sorry Harmata, I didn't mean to offend you.
Calling your post "low effort" was lazy and inconsiderate of me. I shouldn't have dismissed your claim, I should have taken the time to adress it.

Oh one more thing, i see you now actually divide players into categories. Casuals and skilled, eh? There are even "casual maps", eh?

I appologize if i mis-worded my post. I'm talking about the difference between competitive play (almost entireley duels, some TDM) and regular gameplay.

Most games make this differentiation, for instance when QuakeWorld came out there were two versions of DM6, one for competitive duels where and a version for multi-player DM.

As an example: having armor shards everywhere in a map makes it unsuitable for 1v1 duels because controling item timing is key to gameplay, and shards make it possible to easily stack up armor without the slightest effort toward map control.

You should make it a rule of thumb to not defend position of people that simply call others trolls. I think that your "low-effort" remark is a consequence of not following such rule.
Now your effort was a bit over the top, because you treated his posts that contained extremely vague generalizations which i pointed out as actually well thought-out arguments. No no no, you did most of the work for him.
Well, at least this time i received (and accepted) an apology, last time things didn't went this well. I voted Yes, night everyone.

I receive so much shit from this community for every word.

I don't want to get this offtopic too much but if you are really wondering why people react negatively towards you:
- You ripped apart my post which is fine if you want a real discussion but basically at every line you write, "omg why are you so stupid", at least that's how it reads for me - try to give explanations
- You are offending and aggressive without reason "You two are pathetic." "shitty community"
- Your posts lack internal consistency "Shooters like Xonotic don't need ammo management, lets add another ammo type!", wtf?
- You make statements that lack any factual evidence "Yes, to do something new you have to work. I'm sure that mappers can handle this.", why are you sure? Have you talked to mappers at all?

Anyway, I'll wait for Samuals beta test before I'll discuss this further.

- You ripped apart my post

I quoted parts of your post without taking them out of context, and i stated why i did it.

basically at every line you write, "omg why are you so stupid", at least that's how it reads for me

And here's your problem. I never called you stupid, that's all in your head.

- Your posts lack internal consistency "Shooters like Xonotic don't need ammo management, lets add another ammo type!", wtf?

Number of ammo types has nothing to do with counting each shot and counting down time before next ammo wave.

- You are offending and aggressive without reason

You are not even trying here. You called me a troll, other dude called my post a "low-effort rebuttal". No reason, eh? I didn't try to offend you but calling every person a troll it's not the way that leads to a productive, friendly community, and every person that wants to see Xonotic successful should understand that. I will vote with my participation, because sometimes it's the only way.

You make statements that lack any factual evidence

Look who's talking, mister "UT is dead", "QL is dying", "everybody hated Warsow ammo system", "you're a troll". My remark considering maps was reaction to your "you would need massive cooperation of the mappers and lots of feedback/playtesting". It is normal, that's how it goes, it is not a new and serious problem. It's not a problem at all. How do i know that mappers will handle this? Because that's what they do, that's what people expect from people who call themselves mappers, to work on levels, that's what they've been doing since the world saw first level editor.

I can't tell you my honest opinion here without Mr. Bougo (rightfully) raising my forum warning level and I also don't want to spam this thread with such a conversation. If you feel the urge to discuss this further you can contact me on QuakeNet IRC (nick: asyyy).

People please, i've got a plan, just chillax and enjoy playing.

good one, you made my day!

I can't tell you my honest opinion here without Mr. Bougo (rightfully) raising my forum warning level and I also don't want to spam this thread with such a conversation. If you feel the urge to discuss this further you can contact me on QuakeNet IRC (nick: asyyy).

(EDIT: asyyy pointed out that this post is redundant. I agree that it is indeed very much so. Sorry about that, I'm compensating for my lack of earlier posting in this thread.)

Hey now! I decided to leave you guys alone to deal with this like adults, because intervening in public like this might seem like some power trip from my part. You two really should continue this slap fight in private or stop it there. There's no point in talking like that in public, you're arguing about eachother more than you're contributing to this discussion.

Back on topic now, please. Any further response to these past few messages should be done in PM.

Talking like that? Talking like how, Mister Bougo? We were discussing thread's subject, that is all. It wasn't a "slap fight", and there was third participant, i really don't know what you are talking about.

Please Harmata, use group PM to discuss moderation decisions so we don't de-rail the thread more.

That decision was based on nothing and therefore is not valid. He simply called us kiddies and called our dispute a "slap fight". You want moderation like this?

:: hutty detects balance thread ...
SLAP SLAP SLAP SLAP
:: hutty slaps everyone (including himself)

no offence silencer ... but this topic is way over discussed ...

just let samual do his little thing ... if it works keep it ... of it dont ... dont ...
or you could stop complaining and do it yourself ...

now ... what ammo will the hlac have ?

:3 <- kitty face

Talking like that? Talking like how, Mister Bougo? We were discussing thread's subject, that is all. It wasn't a "slap fight", and there was third participant, i really don't know what you are talking about.

That discussion above seemed quite immature to me, arguing like that in the middle of a serious thread. If you think I went overboard with my comments, I take it back. Sorry about this.

Now, please stop the public discussion here. I understand you had to defend your point and respond to my post like that, but now that we have cleared up we really should put this thread back on its rails.

* Halogene holds back two pages of off-topic rant

*ahem* Looking forward to see what Samual has planned.

^^
But it was on topic all the time before asyyy made that weird "if you want to discuss this further PM me" remark. We were on topic all the time, arguing about ammo and stuff. You are the one who saw some "immature public discussion" in it. Look:

-Your posts lack internal consistency "Shooters like Xonotic don't need ammo management, lets add another ammo type!", wtf?
Number of ammo types has nothing to do with counting each shot and counting down time before next ammo wave.

My remark considering maps was reaction to your "you would need massive cooperation of the mappers and lots of feedback/playtesting". It is normal, that's how it goes, it is not a new and serious problem. It's not a problem at all. How do i know that mappers will handle this? Because that's what they do, that's what people expect from people who call themselves mappers, to work on levels, that's what they've been doing since the world saw first level editor.

See, that's connected to thread's subject, and to development in general. And look, every post "on-topic" was "i'll see what Samual will do". Damn, what a discussion!
AND WHAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH PUBLIC DISCUSSION. This is a forum, a place specifically made for people to work things out, and arguing is a part of it. People argue, people come to conclusions, people become better. I was cool long before your first post, i don't know what asyyy implied in his last message but i never was personally against him, i just pointed out his pretty sloppy argumentation considering thread's subject. We were on topic, then another topic arose, what, we should've just ignore it? You want more mature discussions yourself, they will not happen if, well, every conflict will end with the help of a mod.

Halogene holds back two pages of off-topic rant

Nobody forced you to read it. Also, ironic posting about a rant is no better than the rant.

Halogene holds back two pages of off-topic rant

Also, ironic posting about a rant is no better than the rant.

Yes, it is. Now you only replied with two sentences, otherwise you'd have posted a four page reply.

@Samual: when is your concept ready for public testing?

...

I felt this was more of a personal issue between you two than something of interest to the public. Harmata, you had a sharp response, which asyyy interpreted as trolling, and it derailed there, leading to this thread which, contrary to what you claim, does not really talk about ammo types...

I hope you two understand why I pruned these posts. And if you feel there is relevant substance in this here thread that was unjustly ripped away from the main one, feel free to expose it again over there. But your resentment for anyone should stay here (and ideally get resolved in private).

There is no personal issue, at least from my side. And there is also no "you two" story. It sounds harsh but honestly I don't care for random people on the internet who show up from nowhere, post nonsense and defend it aggressively. Sadly not an individual case.. in the past I'd probably have gotten angry but now I only get tired and bored of those types. And Harmata, what I say there, I mean it honestly. And that's all I can say about this.

Mister Bougo deserves a cookie.

...so how are we supposed to derail THIS thread now?! Sheesh.

Oh, I know. Let's talk about the ammo system :p

* Halogene hands a chocolate chip cookie to Mr.Bougo

All this makes sense except for the fact that I'm not in WW right now

I didn't want to be accused of censoring someone.

Haha, he actually used facepalm image (dang, i can see arguments all over that picture!) and then wrote an angry post claiming he's not angry.
I'm glad Mister Bougo didn't simply delete my comments on moderation under the pretext of "derailing the thread" or something like that, administrator of Ukrainian Wikipedia went that low. :respect:
Well, at least your thread looks better now s1lencer, you must be happy as hell .