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Status of Xonotic?

#26
(08-27-2017, 02:40 AM)cefiar Wrote: Also, getting a new release out the door might encourage a new wave of players to check it out, or to come back, especially if some of the major bugs (eg: the net lag with bots and the FPS issues) get mentioned in the release message.

They also need to know about it. Nobody will check it out, if there nobody who knows about it. PR!
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#27
As for PR, we always need more of it. As an example, if anyone wants guidance with writing articles for the blog or even a new page/guide, please let us (the team) know! We are more than willing to help. If you've done something cool with Xonotic that you want shared with a larger audience, we can put it on Twitter or Facebook.

I've done a lot of YouTube videos (83), blog posts (30-something), and XonStat features (countless) in my seven years with the project. I don't have much time for these things anymore, but I still want the game to succeed. Now more than ever Xonotic - and the goodwill it has - is in the hands of the community. OUR community. I'd like everyone in it to feel empowered to make positive changes that push the game forward! It's all open source in the truest sense of the term, after all.

A few concrete examples:
- Do you know how to make YouTube videos? Start making tutorial videos and putting them out there!
- Do you know how to package software into RPM and DEB archives? We would love to have our releases easily installable via your OS's package manager. As a bonus, this would also push us to release more often.
- Are you passionate about a particular aspect of the game (e.g. Overkill/InstaGib)? Write up your experiences and post them for others to read and discuss!
- Run some whacky tournament to show how customizable and fun this game can be. Remember when Mirio did a slap-only tourney? It was awesome AND hilarious.

This is all very much a team effort, and you don't have to be anointed as an "official" team member to contribute.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#28
Xonotic is the last Open Source FPS i enjoyed. It is a good platform and needs little updates after a while. The userbase could be larger, but this is a general problem with Arena Shooters.
Most people i showed Xonotic were not interested in the Genre, but people who played Arena Shooter liked it.

Things what would be nice in the future:
- Roadmap, bugfixes before new features  (Edit: Bugtracker: https://gitlab.com/groups/xonotic/issues)
- get in the repository of distributions or in AppStore
- more advertisement
- improve frame rates

Yeah Anibody, you already did a fantastic job on all your work.
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#29
(08-27-2017, 12:41 PM)Antibody Wrote: This is all very much a team effort, and you don't have to be anointed as an "official" team member to contribute.

Have you be a offical team member to reach out to big gamingsites / youtubers for coverage?
In my opinion that should be reserved for the official team, as it's about the presentation of the game.
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#30
(09-01-2017, 11:32 AM)Cortez666 Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 12:41 PM)Antibody Wrote: This is all very much a team effort, and you don't have to be anointed as an "official" team member to contribute.

Have you be a offical team member to reach out to big gamingsites / youtubers for coverage?
In my opinion that should be reserved for the official team, as it's about the presentation of the game.


To add on to that, I actually remember reading somewhere saying explicitly not to create social media pages for Xonotic because a core team member will do it instead.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017
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#31
Antares, that's true. It is explicitly mentioned in these forums, actually. Is there a problem with that? I mean, do you really think there's a case where someone is gung-ho about doing PR for this project but that particular request stops them cold?

All I was trying to encourage was more active marketing by the people of the community. I tried to give a couple of solid examples, but I am unable to provide a full list of "approved methods of PR" for the project because that just sounds silly and authoritarian.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#32
if that was almost the case does that mean you are going to sue someone?
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017
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#33
I feel the suggestion done by Halogene could also contribute to making the hurdle for new players lower.
https://forums.xonotic.org/showthread.php?tid=7527
Besides, I feel getting in the repository of distributions or in AppStore would really help. I got into contact with nexuiz that way, and found out only in nexuiz itself that there was also a project called xonotic. This was when nexuiz was loosing it's players. Besides, repository and appstore are the places People look around for games they can play without buying them. 
Servers are no issue, as there are plenty (maybe even too much). 


In DM/FFA/TDM mode, making the quad reusable when carrying player gets killed ( picked up by others like in quake in the old days), could bring lots of action around that item i think.
Kwakkie
[Image: 39855.png]
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#34
(09-01-2017, 05:12 PM)Antibody Wrote: All I was trying to encourage was more active marketing by the people of the community. I tried to give a couple of solid examples, but I am unable to provide a full list of "approved methods of PR" for the project because that just sounds silly and authoritarian.

The problem I personally experience with leaving marketing up to the community, is language. I've always been interested in promoting this game, but since English is not my main language I never felt comfortable actually doing any marketing. It's not a good look for a game when an article or so is written in poor English. To add to that, I don't think many Xonotic players with a better knowledge of English are interested in correcting spelling errors in an article written by a random Xonotic player. 

Other ways of marketing, like actually getting the game into the repositories of distributions, are things I wouldn't mind contacting people for, but as said before by others I also feel like this is something that the devs themself should do because it's a very official thing. This is the same with contacting people to test out the game (youtubers/streamers/...) or making official Xonotic accounts on social media.

Now obviously i'm just stating some more 'problems' but I think what we're all here for is actually finding solutions. Therefor I was wondering if it's just not possible to select a few players that don't mind spending time on marketing and actually give them permission to for example contact those youtubers/streamers when a new Xonotic release gets launched, handeling official Xonotic social media platforms, getting the game into the repository of distributions... This way the devs don't have to feel like it's all on their shoulders to spent even more time on (marketing side of) the game and this way the community doesn't have to wait on the devs to eventually do so anyway. 

Quote:Cortez666

[b]2. A Roadmap.

[/b]
A clear visable roadmap for everyone what is the goal for the next version. What is the goal for 0.9, for 1.0 and for 1.x ? I mean something easy to read and not just a suggestion "go to dev tracker".  

For example: Add feature A. Improve Feature B. Adding Maps for the DM and CTF. Fixing the following bugs. Also a detailed description or a link the bug in the dev tracker, so everyone who would likes to contribute has an idea what is expected, to get together to 1.0 and further.

The roadmap is an amazing idea and there is even a part of the forum dedicated to this idea.. but it doesn't get used. The Xonotic planning section would be an amazing place to put the roadmap and actually discuss the planned features. This way devs can also get inspiration from the community by reading the discussions.

vega
[Image: 4324.png]
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#35
@vega - we have very few developers and even less available time. Simply stated, we can't do all of the things this community asks of us. If we cannot find a way to leverage this community's experience and reach, we are doomed. Call me selfish, but I don't want to allocate any additional time than I already do to Xonotic. If I did that I'd run the risk of burning out and wanting to leave completely.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#36
(09-12-2017, 01:01 PM)Antibody Wrote: @vega - we have very few developers and even less available time. Simply stated, we can't do all of the things this community asks of us. If we cannot find a way to leverage this community's experience and reach, we are doomed. Call me selfish, but I don't want to allocate any additional time than I already do to Xonotic. If I did that I'd run the risk of burning out and wanting to leave completely.

Yes that's what i'm saying! That's why you could give an x amount of people to do some of the 'official' marketing instead of you guys. 

Vega
[Image: 4324.png]
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#37
Xonotic is entirely community driven, the so-called "official developers" are just regular players who contribute to the game. Anyone can do the same, and quite frankly, leaving everything to the few that have stepped up is going to doom the game, as Antibody has already stated.

If you want to help out in any way, you can! Pretty much every part of the game needs attention.
[Image: 230.png]
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#38
I'm very much agreeing with the original post in this thread. I myself have also been part of this community for a long time, been playing since Nexuiz 2.3 and developed an obsession during the 2.4-2.4.2 days when normal weapon grapple hook CTF was damn near making players pass out in their chairs. In my honest opinion we very much have the foundation for what could EASILY be the best fast paced shooter as it has everything that was cool about Quake and Tribes movement wise as well as most of what was cool about Unreal Tournament weapon mechanics wise. Right now I think the dev team needs to focus more on taking broken/incomplete features (such as the bots) and sweeping them under the rug out of the sight of any new player. We also need to redistribute the ammo for the weapons as well so that it's shared evenly between the weapons. Throw in a tutorial and BAM! High quality early access game that's free. Finish work on the weapon models and easily you have something more. Figure out how to make good terrain maps with vehicles and recharging jetpacks and now you have something that can go toe to toe with the likes of MidAir and Tribes Ascend. Why we have such a huge focus on the code side of things as opposed to polishing what already exists is beyond me.
ECKZBAWKZ HUGE LIST OF ACHIEVEMENTS GOES HERE....


Oh wait.
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#39
(09-12-2017, 06:31 PM)Mario Wrote: Xonotic is entirely community driven, the so-called "official developers" are just regular players who contribute to the game. Anyone can do the same, and quite frankly, leaving everything to the few that have stepped up is going to doom the game, as Antibody has already stated.

If you want to help out in any way, you can! Pretty much every part of the game needs attention.

I think I'm being misunderstood here. I completely agree that Xonotic is entirely community driven, but there are some areas of marketing that people don't feel comfortable doing because some of these things are very official. This is also because there are plenty of posts  on this forum from 'official' devs that state you can't make official accounts for Xonotic. This is the only reason i suggested the possibility of selecting a few players that get 'official' permission to do these 'official' parts of marketing and e.g. get this game in the repository of distributions. It would be kinda like making an official PR team for Xonotic  Tongue

vega
[Image: 4324.png]
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#40
Lee_Stricklin Wrote:Why we have such a huge focus on the code side of things as opposed to polishing what already exists is beyond me.

I know that's kinda disappointing, but most of the time, the biggest releases are not even related to the amount of new -visible- content they bring.
Because code is the base of everything. Trying to add some new stuff on clunky code is difficult and sometimes not possible. That's why they keep doing this first.

As for the assets & models... It seems to be really hard to find the right persons, if I had time I guess I'd try to open Blender, but the learning curve will be harsh, I guess. But you can try! There are plenty of tutorials.
Three Club-Mate is my limit. After that, I won't guarantee anything.
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#41
If anyone wants to undertake some sort of PR measure that they think is "suspect" or would cause some sort of fragmentation of the community, it never hurts to just ask here or on IRC. Those types of things can (most often) be resolved via a short conversation.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#42
(09-12-2017, 06:31 PM)Mario Wrote: Anyone can do the same, and quite frankly, leaving everything to the few that have stepped up is going to doom the game

But only a tiny few people are able to merge stuff in master. And TimePath and divVerent seem to disappear again.
?️‍? <- that should be a rainbow flag emoji.
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#43
Lyberta, the vast majority of the discussion in this thread was around PR and marketing. A much larger group of people can help with that.
asyyy^ | are you releated to chuck norris?
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#44
I don't honestly think Xonotic in its current state will get players even with large PR campaign. People are for the most part not interested. It's my speculation and I may be wrong.
?️‍? <- that should be a rainbow flag emoji.
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#45
(09-13-2017, 07:39 AM)Antibody Wrote: If anyone wants to undertake some sort of PR measure that they think is "suspect" or would cause some sort of fragmentation of the community, it never hurts to just ask here or on IRC. Those types of things can (most often) be resolved via a short conversation.

I posted this already in the IRC channel, but it might be the right place here.
My PR suggestion is fairly simple. About a month before a new release there will be a thread (or something similar) to gather contacts from gaming sites , gaming youtubers and others which are useful for PR.
Everybody frequents other content depending on their preferences and also on native language. Hopefully there will be a big list of contacts from all over the world. With the release of the new version some sort of "nice" newsletter will be send to the contacts. This could be continued with every version.

Of course not everyone will react to it, but i am sure some will check it out and maybe there will be some coverage. 

@Lyberta: i tend to disagree, because people are hyped for arena shooters at the moment. New UT and new Quake. Also some other arena shooters like Reflex. They changed the gameplay and there some who doesnt like the new games. Why not giving them an alternativ with Xonotic?
<Samual> I am the most unprofessional developer ever
<bluez> halogene, you make awesome music, but you have no clue about ctf.
<Halogene> I didn't know mappers include some mysterious waypoints so members of the BOT clan can navigate a map?
<divVerent> if you don't pay for a premium account, your movement speed is limited to 100qu/s
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#46
Hello, I've played Xonotic a liitle bit but found this game amazing.
Two factors stops me from playing: players activity and family  Smile .

I'm sure that most of you know UT2004 and probably remembers how singleplayer is organized there. In fact I've found this idea very cool and wondering why nobody applied this idea in some online FPS.
It was all about players, team matches and a little bit about spectators/fans.

If someone do not remember/know what I'm talking about I'll give short description:
- you start game with playing some deathmatch games to earn some money and create a team by hiring other players (obviously in case of online game you also should be hired)
- you create a team, arrange players behaviors (offence/defence and so on)
- you play with a team against other teams
- from time to time you participate in duel games against players from other teams
- if you spent all your money a spectator/fan could help you with money otherwise your team lost or you have no money left to heal yourself after match.

I've tried to implement this idea in my attempt of reviving my favorite game: Half-Life Adrenaline Gamer but I decided to use FTEQW to make a complete remake as I believed it has better netcode (besides it allows me to use a lot of game data from HL including maps).

So what I'm trying to say... maybe instead of trying to do what all other AFPS projects do (shouting "Hey, we have another quake-like shooter but the best in the universe! Come and be pwnd by some of our average players, for FREE!!!"  Big Grin ), it would be better to change approach to the gaming? I think some management and re-imagination of spectators role can be a nice killer-feature, so more people could be involved even if they are not actually play the game.
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#47
What kind of money are we talking about here? In-game money, like some kind of Killing Floor or Counterstrike sort of game mechanic, or e-sports betting with real-life valuable items. The former, if there's no actual in-game use for that game money, then there's no real incentive to value it. You sort of present it as an out-of-game system, but it influences in-game e.g buying health for a team, which sounds extremely unfair.

The latter you introduce a lot of problems that occur when things are monetized e.g the introduction of Steam Market, and a real-life money market for TF2 hats, CSGO knife skins, etc caused a lot of scammers, spammers, and MMO gold farmer type businesses to pool in. You would also need a trustworthy intermediate service to handle transfer to lessen counterparty risk.

If you are really hindered by the lack of online player activity, if you haven't already, you should introduce your friends to the game or find a readily contactable pool of acquaintances (irc or discord does this)- with your friends you at least have a consensus on an agreed chat protocol. Any multiplayer game where limited socialization can take place (i.e no voip, typing in chat is infeasible in most contexts while playing) and where random players are simply brought together is going to have a tough time retaining players.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017
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#48
(10-11-2017, 04:37 AM)Antares* Wrote: What kind of money are we talking about here? In-game money, like some kind of Killing Floor or Counterstrike sort of game mechanic, or e-sports betting with real-life valuable items. The former, if there's no actual in-game use for that game money, then there's no real incentive to value it. You sort of present it as an out-of-game system, but it influences in-game e.g buying health for a team, which sounds extremely unfair.

The latter you introduce a lot of problems that occur when things are monetized e.g the introduction of Steam Market, and a real-life money market for TF2 hats, CSGO knife skins, etc caused a lot of scammers, spammers, and MMO gold farmer type businesses to pool in. You would also need a trustworthy intermediate service to handle transfer to lessen counterparty risk.

If you are really hindered by the lack of online player activity, if you haven't already, you should introduce your friends to the game or find a readily contactable pool of acquaintances (irc or discord does this)- with your friends you at least have a consensus on an agreed chat protocol. Any multiplayer game where limited socialization can take place (i.e no voip, typing in chat is infeasible in most contexts while playing) and where random players are simply brought together is going to have a tough time retaining players.

You got me wrong. I did not suggest to monetize, though I do not reject this idea completely, because dev's/infrastructure needs money and you cannot escape from it forever.
Money I spoke about were only in-game money for building a teams, and it was just an example. I just suggest that AFPS/Tournament games should include some resources management system (in this particular case - players). Pretty much like in football (I believe Big Grin ). Player has price, participation in some tournament has its price etc, because without term of value management becomes pointless.
As for health example... it's just an example of a resource. For instance if player finishes last match with 1hp why should  he start next with 100 (I mean only first respawn, ofc)?

So, to sum up, I just suggest use in-game money to manage in-game resources (players, teams, tournaments, championships, whatever) to enable socialization: Players can set up their price, other players having enough sum of money can create a team by spending money on other players. The other ones can organize and manage entire tournaments by setting prize sums etc. Spectators can place bets  etc. There are a lot possibilities.
But as a side effect this money system can came out to the real world one day... may be. But almost every AFPS at least once had a LAN party with prizes, so this point has been crossed already Smile
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#49
  • As for health example... it's just an example of a resource. For instance if player finishes last match with 1hp why should  he start next with 100 (I mean only first respawn, ofc)?
Because in a match, players should start with an even amount of health. This means the start of the match is fair.

I don't think anyone uses this idea because it is either useless, and the system does not work or can be bypassed entirely. If you want to play in tournaments with prizes, they are held seasonally in the sub-forum.
Xonotic exists for a long time and low player count is the proof that nobody wants to play Xonotic since it is a bad game by default.
- Lyberta, 2017
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#50
I don't fully understand what you suggest here, Rvach. If it were for a single player campaign, yeah sure, that would be cool and motivating. It would require more advanced AI though to make AI players more unique in their playing style. Coding that would be quite some work, not to mention the entire single player "story" with tournaments and so on.

But if you intend to apply any of that to multiplayer, I think you are on the wrong path at least for now. Anything that would artificially prevent players from participating in tournaments would actually harm the player base at this stage. I could imagine if Xonotic had an active player base of several million regular players, with big esports events being organized and such, that then such a system could be a nice addition in order to make players "earn" tournament participation rights or so. But with the player base being so thin as it is, I would strongly oppose any system that would prevent anyone from playing whatever match he wants to.
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<ZeRoQL> i think i got 1 proper quad and that cunt halogen fuck me over with a laser
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