dm3 worth to continue?

as some of you might remember i was doing a remake of dm3, but now after a few months break of working on it im not sure if its worth to continue.

Why?
Well, its quiet simple. Its a big map and needs many players. On FFA servers there are barely enough players, and if there are enough they might quit as other players cant be found immediately. Also the weapon design is a problem dunno what to do with it.

Take a look at the map here:
http://ompldr.org/vZjZpNw/dm3_xonotic_test.pk3

First the negative stuff:
- mapinfo is broken / map doesn't show up in menu
- visual bugs:
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...025-00.png
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...043-00.png
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...206-00.png
- missing textures:
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...142-00.png
- bright lightning:
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...146-00.png
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...244-00.png
- elevator has flickering textures and could be faster:
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...428-00.png
- ramps and other stuff that allows trick jumps would be nice, for example to get to the megahealth:
http://xonotic-gaming.org/_files/Screens...506-00.png

Not rated:
- Item placement

Now the positive stuff:
- You did a really good job, not only visually but also to keep the movement flow. Add some ramps to jump on and this map will be fun to run.
- I think this map deserves to be played, but like I told you on IRC, without a nexgun the map wont become popular in TDM (short version: because of mortar + mg secondary as only and ugly mid-long range weapons and health regen). So you may consider adding a nexgun although that goes against tradition.

I really dont know what to think of this ... some areas a beautiful ... like the outside grassy ramp part ... some areas dont look so nice ... like the trash compacted part .....

I like the conveyor ramps (even though they are not moving )

also ... I got some low fps in a few places ... like the big water room

Cortez: Please, don't! Some areas are good but the whole level is completly disaster for Xonotic!
Layout is one huge pain, there are many dead-ends (which is very irritating), and few rooms are terribly designed (for example mega armor area)
Landfill looks... creepy. and fake,
map is definitely too big,
I like few ideas and structures, but rest is just bad.

Im sorry for being so harash, but I know that it won't give any good in future. Of course I can be wrong and last decision is up to you but just think about what I say.

there are many dead-ends (which is very irritating)

where? only 2 mega armors at dead ends.

and few rooms are terribly designed (for example mega armor area)

did you realized the part that it is not finished?

Landfill looks... creepy. and fake,

thats the best you can do with patches. i guess know that from you spiderex map.

Mega room: I like the room design in this area. Have you thought about adding special platform for it? (on the top of this valley)

Grass and broken tiles are really nice idea and you made them awesome.In the small corridor leading from mega to mega rooms there are no lights. This area is complety dark! Also it leads directely from mega to mega (the same corridor above it but the upper one is MUCH shorter, which is pretty poor design)


Mega armor room: I won't lie to you. This room has a bad design. With the 'dead end' exactly on the mega armor (which can not be seen form below by the way).I like the idea of placing platform on the boxes.


I would change the mega armor placement or change the corridor (upper or lower) and make it leading somewhere else.

Water room: It has too much water in it, I would suggest making those platfom paths wider. These turbines look good. Great job there.



White room: The design of this area is smooth however there is a dead end which never is good.

Landfill area: Without laserjumping its easy to get lost in the maze of trash.manuvering among those creepy boxes of trash is not a great solution. The room has nice textures but I am definitely against the landfill idea at all (or the way you made it). And again: I like the soil and tiles thingo, Nicely done.



The outside area: Well... There are two actual ways in and three out (the water path is invisible from inside (whats the point of making one way halls?) The textures on the wall look bad (I guess you haven't finished that yet). Big hug for he boulders you added and the 'green alley' leading directely to the second mega. You definitely need to add 3rd (or 4th) way out of this room. I would sugest adding one way teleport near the mega.


My previous post was short and stupid, now I realized that it was not helpfull at all. Hope This one will help you. The map has its potential, and that is what I have not noticed after playing it for the first time (but hey: First impression is always important! Or you don't care?
Edit: In the final calculations there are 3 dead ends.
Edit 2: Do you have an idea for item placement? Could you shere it with us? I can help with that too.

You realize that this is a remake of a quakeworld map? It already has been played tens of thousands times in tdm and clan arena, just not at Xonotic. Not bad for a map with such a bad design like you call it..
And I'm not sure what your obsession with dead ends is.

With the 'dead end' exactly on the mega armor (which can not be seen form below by the way).

So what? This means you can secure the mega armor if you time it and control the area before it spawns. A team with good co-ordination will have a big advantage there which is a welcomed change to the usual aimfest that tdm is.

Some things can be tweaked to make gameplay with Xonotic physics smoother, e.g. the mega health room but qua design and size this map is pretty good for 4v4 tdm imo.

Ok, You are definitely right, Asyy. Howverer I have to point that out:

This is not Quakeworld.
This. Is. Xonotic! (kick into the death pit)

And it has different rules, physics, etc. Ofcourse I still can be completly wrong about everything, but just hear me out and try to understand my point of view. And my 'obsession' with dead ends is not only mine, I can assure you that nobody wants to get trapped like that especially considering that there are few, not just one. there is only one excuse for making deadends: Major item to pickup (like megas) or important wepon or secret area (but secret areas suck in gameplay, so the dead ends).
I am not completly against every dead end in the map, but they are simply too large to not change gameplay drastically.

(the same corridor above it but the upper one is MUCH shorter, which is pretty poor design)

well its not a finished map. only a few parts of the map are done.

Mega armor room: I won't lie to you. This room has a bad design. With the 'dead end' exactly on the mega armor (which can not be seen form below by the way).

This room is not done most parts are just quickly textured. the mega armor is typically risk reward stuff. Its just an exposed platform.

I like the idea of placing platform on the boxes

they just hide something evil =)

Water room: It has too much water in it, I would suggest making those platfom paths wider. These turbines look good. Great job there.

When you are doing a remake you can try to imagine what could this room could be. Soelen had the idea it could be something like a sewage-treatment plant. He also did the models. Anyway this room isnt finished

White room: The design of this area is smooth however there is a dead end which never is good.

I guess you mean the room next to water area. I dont see how this is a dead end. When you enter the room from the water area, there are 2 ways to get out of the room. The teleporter in the hole next to the stairs, the with the stairs you can go leaf the room to the room with the megahealth in the middle

Without laserjumping its easy to get lost in the maze of trash.manuvering among those creepy boxes of trash is not a great solution. The room has nice textures but I am definitely against the landfill idea at all (or the way you made it). And again: I like the soil and tiles thingo, Nicely done.

the combination of soil and tiles is intended, its a help to get through it. Just focus on the part where are no gaps in that way.

It is indeed a fairly big map, but i would say its worth finishing as it does have a interesting layout and many big ffa maps are just large in scale rather then have many rooms. First tough would be to get the pitch dark areas lit and have some sort of preliminary item placement done so it can be play-tested. Fortunately, overkill does not need allot of items, so o added it there for testing